When I look at my STBX today a see a man with talent for his job, drive determination, dedication and a person who will be succesful.<P>But after getting involved and being around other people I realized I am better off today. I will always cherish him. I think he has great qualities, but we don't match.<P>What are the most important things to you in your life?? What do you want out of life? Were you infact happy or going through the motions?

I understand why people say these things after a divorce...<P>we weren't a good match<BR>I'm better off now<BR>we weren't really compatible<P>People like to feel like they are in control of their lives and that things will always get better. That's ok. <P>There are a few reasons I will never say the statements listed above. Regardless of how good a "match" me and my ex were, I was committed to making our marriage the best it could be. I made a commitment for life, and although I know I made some mistakes (big and small) I was in it for life. There is no way I can say whether I'm better off now, because there is no possible way I could have predicted the future if my ex and I stayed together. I have to say..no..I'm not better off now. Having gone through a divorce has not made me a "better" person. Finding someone new will not make me a "better" person. <P>Maybe it is just too hard for people to admit that divorce sucks, it ruins people's lives, and finding someone new is no guarantee of happiness. I know, a big bummer. Maybe if more people felt that way then divorce wouldn't happen so often.

I think quite often after a marriage dies,we tend to forget what drew us to that person to start. Sometimes their personalities change so much when going through an affair, personal crisis, that they appear much different than what we remember. Perhaps we view them differently after a divorce as our own defense mechanism, in order to not feel as much pain. And, we all change and grow as well. <P>I see the father of my children, I see a marriage that could have been, I see in his eyes pain and sadness that things happened the way they did as I am sure he can see it in my eyes. <P>But, somewhere along the way, you have to look forward, and make a new life for yourself. I think time heals, and I think it also lessens the pain, and perhaps allows you to forgive yourself and find happiness in your new life again. <P>Divorce is a terrible thing. It ruins lives and can be devastating for children. But people have a true instinct for survival. Sometimes you go through the most incredible pain and suffering as I am sure all of us here have felt, and in that respect, perhaps we are better people to have survived it. <P>But only if we have learned from our past mistakes. Life is full of opportunities and being able to go on. Once we have went through the many emotions and dealt with ourselves, we can all find happiness in our lives again. <P>------------------<BR>Susan

I see only snippets of behavior. I have not gone too far out of my way to be in touch.<P>I see a woman who divorced her husband, quit her hated job and left for europe, abandoning even the dog to her carelessly canicidal parents (car wheel, garage door, sudden illness, practice golf swing--dogs just don't last long over there). <P>For "health reasons" she moved back quickly, and reclaimed the dog.<P>I see a woman who went back to her hated job (albeit on new terms), and at last passed the last hurdles to full membership in her profession. <P>I see a woman who still owes me money, the title to my car, a signature on our '99 1040, a signature signing over half the stock in my company, among other things. She seems to have no real interest in paying up.<P>I see a woamn who is driving a $650/mo. albatross (with my name still on the note and registration) she spoke of selling recently, but won't consider dealing with me on so that she could have her old car back (in much-improved condition) and defray her debt to me. I have told her in no uncertain terms that she would get a better deal from me than anywhere else. <P>I see a woman who, on her return to town, moved into a building she despised, and I suspect it is because it is located right next to my business address (had she moved into my building, I could have moved out--but the office address I'm stuck with for a while).<P>I see a woman who is still hostage to events in her own past that she feels inappropriate guilt and shame over. She has visited this terrible secret on me and I will have to stand up against all her defenses in order to inform people who need to know it. It is something that must be done, and I can only pray it helps her in the long run too.

There's a reality for me that took place.<BR>I realized as time went on what i want in my life. <BR>I'm sure everyone has made those statements.<BR>I'm sure the other spouse doesn't feel that way because they were left behind.<P>But reality is....<BR>The only person you can change in your life is you.<BR>The only person you can control in your life is you.<P>After your marraige started breaking up... Did you try to hold on??<BR>Most do.<BR>I left him.<BR>I went back.<BR>Got treated even worse.<BR>Now there was violence in my relationship.<P>I can't change that about him.<BR>..and i will not subject myself to it.<BR>I will not subject my daughter to it.<BR>I will not tolerate it.<P>I am where i want to be.<BR>In your relationship, that you want back...would you want it the same way?

No, not all of us have made those statements.<P>The dumper (whether they cheated first or not) almost always say those statements. Otherwise, they wouldn't be the dumper and divorce wouldn't be so attractive to them.<P>The dumpee...well, if divorce was attractive to them, they would be the dumper, not the dumpee. <P><BR>When I say that I'm not better off now, I wouldn't want anyone to think that I'm not making my life the best it can be. That is to be expected and I hope people do that whether they are married, single, divorced, whatever. Having made the "best" out of a bad situation does not mean that it was a good thing. It simply means that people cope. People cope, and I've lived long enough to know that painful experiences leave scars that are very difficult and maybe even impossible to eliminate. I refuse to embrace divorce as some kind of wonderful learning experience. If it were in my power, I would have chosen never to experience it. I don't believe I'm a better person for having gone through it. I've never been raped (knock on wood), but I'm not going to walk downtown at midnight half naked so that I can experience what it is like to be raped and "overcome it".<P>The reason I'm so repelled by the "time heals all wounds" stuff is because it tends to give people who hurt others some kind of license to continue hurting others. Goes along with the "kids adjust" and all that other hooey. Time does not heal all wounds, it just makes the scars less visible and less painful. <P>Sue, I appreciate that you want to be encouraging. This is your first divorce. I think you'll find in 10 yrs or so that there will still be things that haunt you about your divorce. Or maybe when your children are old enough to marry and end up getting divorces themselves perhaps. Glossing over how destructive divorce is will not help. On the other hand, being bitter about it forever doesn't help people either. Maybe there is a happy medium.

Well, I see someone who thinks the world revolves around her schedules, and someone who is obsessive compulsive, i see someone who doesn't know how to communicate, but thinks she can because she is a hs teacher, and can teach math to kids. i see someone who needs to be wanted by the kids, instead of teaching them independence.<P>I just hung up after telling/instructing/<BR>teaching her how to teach our kids how to learn and practdice responsibility, how to learn by doing, how to learn self reliance.<P>none of these skills she possesses, so how do you think she can teach the kids? DUH! she can't. but she is an outstanding teacher of MATH (black and white subject) to other people's kids. the courts would have a hard time believing that I would be a better choice.<P>I also see someone who's world is shrinking, meaning, she is less adventurous, less willing to try new ideas, and likes smaller and smaller things. <P>I see someone who will say anything that comes to mind to make her point, or to narrow the focus of a discussion so fine, that she is always right (in that particular, 0.1% of the time, example.)<P>I see someone who doesn't like her body, but is obsessed with it, and her mood depends upon how she currently feels in the mirror.<P>I see someone who is so into the moment, that planning anything other than a vacation or a party is nearly impossible.<P>lastly, I see someone who <B> complains </B> about everything, thinking somehow that complaining or someone else will make her better.<P>tom

I say "hear! hear!" to everything TheStudent said. People say "She'll be okay" and "You'll be okay" and "Too bad it didn't work out." Well, what is the "it" that didn't work out? A marriage doesn't just die, and a divorce doesn't just happen. People <I>make choices</I> to build up or tear down. Sometimes the choice to leave is a proactive choice (as in cases of abuse). Sometimes -usually, I suspect - it is merely destructive all around.<P>I do not value the pain and scars I must now bear for the rest of my life. Sure I'm a stronger person now than I was before, but what does that get me? I wouldn't need that strength if I didn't have to face adversity. Innocence, once shattered, can never be regained, and the world needs loving, giving, trusting, open people. It would be a hard, cold place if we all were wary and cautious.<P>When I look at my wife I see a confused and troubled woman who is hurting herself far more than she is hurting me, since whatever happens I will still have my self-respect. I see a woman who never escaped from the false guilt stemming from her dysfunctional upbringing, and who will now have to deal with real guilt if she ever comes out of the fog. I see a woman who is frightened and suspicious of love because she does not love herself and does not believe it is possible for anyone to love her. I see a woman who chose to discard her faith and values, and to attack someone who loved her deeply, in her panic-stricken attempt to avoid facing her fears and self-doubt.<P>I see a woman who lost her innocence.<BR>

I see the Pillsbury dough boy who does not yet understand that God has not died and left that title to him.<P>Someone who is still angry/ugly/abusive to the woman he said he never wanted to marry but didn't know how to break that news to. And who says he loves his children. <P>Someone I would just as soon never see again. And if an on-the-job accident should take his life, I just pray it happens between now and Dec. 1, 2001. I wouldn't plan it, don't want it, but could accept it should that happen. Otherwise the new w gets the insurance.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheStudent:<BR><B>I understand why people say these things after a divorce...<P>we weren't a good match<BR>I'm better off now<BR>we weren't really compatible<P>People like to feel like they are in control of their lives and that things will always get better. That's ok. <P>There are a few reasons I will never say the statements listed above. Regardless of how good a "match" me and my ex were, I was committed to making our marriage the best it could be. I made a commitment for life, and although I know I made some mistakes (big and small) I was in it for life. There is no way I can say whether I'm better off now, because there is no possible way I could have predicted the future if my ex and I stayed together. I have to say..no..I'm not better off now. Having gone through a divorce has not made me a "better" person. Finding someone new will not make me a "better" person. <P>Maybe it is just too hard for people to admit that divorce sucks, it ruins people's lives, and finding someone new is no guarantee of happiness. I know, a big bummer. Maybe if more people felt that way then divorce wouldn't happen so often.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm still in the beginning, but I can't agree with you more!!!!!<P>

Spoken from someone who has been divorced for 9 years and remarried for 8 years .. you do move on with life, kids do adjust, but in all honesty, the pain doesn't just vanish. I still feel pain from the divorce just as I am sure the kids do. My kids have a great/daily relationship with my ex, but .. there are times that they won't have with him that every normal married family would .. such as teaching my 16 year old (male) how to shave (dads job) ... talking to him about sex (dads job) .. yeah, I can do those things, but he probably wanted and wished it was dad doing it. Going to your childs award ceremonies .. they can't look up and see with a smile mom and dad watching them with joy ... they feel the tension, its always there. The kids are happy now and they have great grades, good students, well adjusted, but painful days and memories always pipe up. Its not all the kids either. I feel pain. I moved on. I remarried and love my current husband of 8 years .. but things with him and my first two children (his now stepchildren) aren't like they would be with them and their father. To a degree, my husband feels a "sort" of jealousy that "dad" drops by daily to see his kids and coaches them, etc. The kids see and know that as well. True that you move on, but from one who has been there, its felt day to day the realities of divorce and what it does to you, your family, and your children. It is easy to sit back and say "I am better off ... but we all do have our faults .. I had mine and he had his .. unfortunately, they were ones that led us to separate and divorce ... and I can definitely say I have a decent life now ... but if I could have gone back in time, I definitely would have tried much longer and much harder to hold on and try many more avenues to make things work ... for ALL the things I have seen in these past 9 years that have in some way hurt my children for not having "dad" living with us. I know everyones situations are different, just to say that even thru the happiness .. kids still remember and know the pain of divorce and what it can do daily to them. So can we.

Looking at my stbx:<P>I see a very handsome and very intelligent man. I see a man who doesn't seem to know exactly what he wants or how to obtain it. I see a man who thought leaving would give him peace and happiness, but remains only content and unsure of his decesion. I see a man who needs to stop running and avoiding his feelings and deal with them.<P>I also see a stubborn man, with pride and an ego that will never allow him to develop the true potential that is in him, if he continues on this same path.<P>I see a man that I still love and will always have a specil place for in my heart. <P>------------------<BR><B>God, Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...Courage to change the things I can...And the wisdom to know the difference.</B><P>lady_divine77@yahoo.com

I see a beautiful, intelligent lady who has decided not to honor the promise she made to me 15 years ago, so that <B>SHE</B> can be happy. I see a mother who is taking away a stable home life from our son so that <B>SHE</B> can be happy. I see a confused little girl throwing away a lifetime's worth of possibilities and destroying my life so that <B>SHE</B> can be happy. <P>A very small part of me hopes that she is someday, but only a very small part, and it shrinks a little every day. I see my STBX as a completely different person than I married.<P>Divorce is one persons easy way out. I never in my entire life imagined I'd ever be here today. I recognize the mistakes I made, and did my best to change for the better, but the decision had already been made. I see someone making a very serious mistake, and I feel a little sorry for her.<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again<P><p>[This message has been edited by c00ker (edited January 03, 2001).]

I see someone whose face is familiar but whose personality is completely different except for a few minor details. I see a monster that must have been lurking inside my husband like an evil jack-in-the box waiting for the opportune moment to reveal himself.

I too see a different person than who I thought I'd been married to.<P>This one is selfish, lacks loyalty, lacks commitment, and thinks of his needs first and foremost.<P>This one hopes his actions won't destroy our children, but knows deep down the scars he's created.<P>This one knows he is the one who gave up. This one quits when the going gets tough.<P>This one tells me he has already gotten involved with someone else to avoid being alone - this one has forgotten love is the important element in a relationship.<P>My dad keeps telling me to stop looking at my stbx through "past-colored" glasses and see him for who he is now. Great advice - I wish my heart would listen.

I see my wife...<P>A woman who is so sad and has been for so long - even before she met me.<P>Someone who feels that I "let her down" through my actions and words.<P>Someone who does not know "who they are" or "what they want".<P>Someone who is so beautiful inside but is so frightened at the same time.<P>I see the woman I want/wanted to be with my whole life. I saw her faults before we married - I knew she would not just change - so I loved her "in spite" of her issues. And I still do.<P>I see a confused woman who does not know what is right or wrong - who just seems to be lost.<P>I wish there was a way that I could say to her that I will always be here for her, WITHOUT her looking too far into it. For I truly believe it.<P>I see a sorrowful reflection of a beautiful love we both once shared....<P>Mike

You know what is funny? This very subject hit me square in the face this weekend. After my stbxH came home from his vacation with the OW,it was like I was seeing him with new eyes for the first time, and I was surprised to discover that I did not really like him all that well.<P>Now, I don't want to talk ill of him or drag him through the mud--it's just that for 15 years I was utterly and solely devoted to him, and I tended to overlook some his "faults" to give him the benefit of the doubt and keep on trying. Now that he has left though, and since he was gone for a period close to 2 weeks (and my life was peaceful then), I have suddenly seen some of the qualities I was willing to overlook, and it isn't pretty.<P>I'd have to say when I look at my stbx now, I see a man who has low self-esteem, who is angry with himself and his life, and who does not have very much joy AT ALL! It's kind of sad!<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Well, here we go again....<P>It was NOT my intent in my post to "gloss over" the pain that divorce causes..just the opposite. It is destructive, cruel, unforgiving, and a hard lesson to learn. And NO ONE should have to learn the lesson. I was married 17 yrs, and was planning on this being a lifetime commitment. <P>But, having said that, there has to come a time when rather than looking backward, you have to look forward. Otherwise, the regrets will ruin your life. We don't have control over another person. We cannot make their decisions for them. We have to accept our responsibility for the demise of our marriages, do our best to save our marriages, and if the other person wants out, then make sure we have done everything possible and "let go". I mean that in a way that allows us to move on, not just "give up" when things are tough. Otherwise, after the second time of his affair, I would have kicked him out, and said oh, "I just want out."<P>I will certainly look back on this experience and wish to God I never had to put my kids and myself through this. And, I believe, when the time comes, my X will have those same feelings. But, he will never come back, and have to be the best I can be to raise my kids. <P>A healthy and happy life is important for me, as well as them. I refuse to allow myself to feel self pity about it all anymore. I did it for over two years, time to move on. <BR><P>------------------<BR>Susan

You sure can tell the ones here, who are still bitter and upset. You can see the ones that still want to treasure but are moving on.<P>ME?<P>I see a man with potential, drive, determination, caring, selfishness, deep rooted anger, and 2 faces. Each fighting with each other not sure which one will surface. Sometimes i see the boy who is scared and worried that he isn't impressing enough, or living up to standards.<BR>I see someone who will forever be in my heart and can not ever be replaced. Nor do i want him to be.<P>But i am accepting that we have different issues and leaving was hard VERY HARD. But very much a necessity. Realizing you can't be with the one you live is a very difficult thing to do.<BR>

Marriages ending are not a good thing.<BR>I believe everybody can testify to that.<P>But realizing what brought you to that point is impowering! Working on self improvement is self-growth. Not being bitter and angry is enlightening and lifts a great weight off your shoulders.<P>Yes people make mistakes.<BR>PLEASE the people at this sight that never made a mistake by all means speak up.<BR>Because you would be the ideal spouse.<P>God accepts that we make mistakes, he just wants for us to better ourselves and grow within him.<P>Cherish everyday, and remember your loved ones hold them tight.<BR>