He came home to see the kids this evening as he said he would. He does the fire station thing on Wednesday nights, so coming Wednesdays was a given. I haven't seen him since he left Sunday but we've talked on the phone a couple of times and use the Instant Messenger during the day while we're both at work. Nothing substantive in our converstations.<p>He met with his therapist, checked out his truck and came for dinner. I got a smile and a cheerful "What's going on?" when he came in the kitchen as I was cooking and talking to our son's teacher on the phone. I gave him an enthusiastic smile in return and he left the room.<p>It was all so awkward. I didn't know what to say and I know it showed. I asked about his visit with the therapist and he told me what I already knew - that his therapist was surprised that we were going to joint counseling (I could tell that when I first told him that my husband had agreed to it). That's all he would say.<p>Our next session together is tomorrow.<p>His attention was all on the children; I was most definitely an outsider. When he decided to leave about 8:30, I wonder if I would have gotten a hug if our youngest hadn't invited me in on her's. I certainly would not have gotten a kiss if I had not gone and taken one as he was walking out the door. I told him I wish he would stay instead of spending the night at the station.<p>It didn't help matters that he had an allergy attack - his first since he left. He said he hadn't even taken his allergy medicine since Saturday. Great. That'll make him want to come home.<p>He's going to pick the kids up from school Friday afternoon and take them to his dad's (who will be out of town). Says he'll bring them back Saturday evening. I doubt I'll even see them or him as I don't get home from work till about 7:00. I am not invited. I'm supposed to go out with my sister in law and she wants me to stay the night with them, but I don't really feel like doing much of anything. Don't feel like hanging around here or doing housework either though.<p>So just how do you work on a relationship when you're separated? How are you supposed to fall in love when you don't spend time together? He's only been gone three days and look at us. He said he that a separation is supposed to make you see if there's anything to bring you back to the marriage. Not to make a divorce easier. But why do I get the feeling that the latter is the case here?<p>I don't like this one bit. He keeps saying he needs to decide. Damn it! Why can't he just decide to stay with his family and work through this? Yes, he'll be at the session tomorrow but why won't he just DECIDE flat out to make this work? Why this wishy-washiness?

Patient ... I know how hard it is. I wish there was something more I could say, but I don't know the answer. I am getting a little scared myself that this really will go all the way to March and I'll have to do Plan B. And that'll kill me.<p>As for working on Plan A while separated - I have been keeping in contact with my H, inviting him to do things with me and such. So far he has been accepting for the most part. So I use every opportunity to make every contact pleasant and free of Love Busters. Sometimes I, too want to scream, and it is hard when he leaves, because I want him to stay.<p>Try to be as natural as possible, that's all I can suggest. Try to pretend while he's there that he still lives there. He is probably feeling just as awkward as you are. <p>As to why can't they decide ... good question, but I guess if it took years for them to decide to leave, it's gonna take time for them to decide to come back.<p>Try to hang on to the fact that he is willing to go to joint counselling and try to have the therapist concentrate on identifying the problems right away - and giving you homework to do to try to solve the problems. I wish my H would agree to at least try to work on our marriage. I know he still cares about me, and I know he could love me again if he'd just give us a chance. I believe that with all my heart.<p>Sorry I couldn't offer something more constructive..<p>terri<p>

To Patient--<p>I have totally been where you are right now and it took me awhile to actually start acting different, but when I finally did my husband certainly noticed. The more I sobbed, acted sad, begged (even nonverbally) for his affection--that just drove him further away. The way to work on a relationship when you are separated can actually be to do nothing. Remember, he is the one who wanted to leave physically and emotionally--so let him. The doesn't mean that you need to be nasty to him--just TRY to be indifferent. Human nature makes you think that if you don't keep trying and staying in contact that the other person will forget about you--actually the opposite is true. As long as you carry all of the weight of the marriage, that allows your husband to be free of carrying any weight at all. Right now the oblivious see-saw is totally tilted his way. The fact is, is that the more one person tries, the less the other one does. I know it's difficult to believe that this is true--but I'm proof positive that it is.<p>Also remember it's only been a few days since he has been gone--so will kinda go through a grieving process, but it will get better. You need to go under my original post "All opinions needed..." and look for the reply from Kitty--she has wonderful tips on how to act and believe in yourself.<p>Right now, there is NO way you can talk him into making any kind of decision or talking him into coming back. Frankly, the more you push for a decision the farther he will run. Remember, everyone has to be responsible for their own happiness. It was his decision to leave, it was his decision to think that he wants something else (i.e. freedom or whatever). It is also your decision as to how much this situation gets you down--you are responsible for your own happiness. You deserve to be happy but you cannot rely on your husband to make you happy. I kinda went through stages--first was sadness/helplessness, then came madness, then day by day came indifference. I found though, the more I found myself not caring or becoming indifferent and use to the situation, the more my husband started caring and worrying about the situation. It all goes back to the "challenge" thing. Most men seem to want something that they don't think they can have. I will admit I am like that to a certain point. I don't want someone who jumps at my every beckon call--the more you give, give, give the less the other person can give. Now with marriage, you do end up having to come to some compromise. Both parties can still be supportive and caring and giving without appearing to be a doormat or parental figure.<p>I'm not sure if any of this has helped, but what you are feeling is totally normal--as a matter of fact, you sounded just like I did awhile back. I like the advice that Michelle Weiner-Davis gives, "if you have tried something and it doesn't work, try something totally different, try the opposite". I'm sure your husband knows you want him back, he knows you are sad, he expects you to pine away for him, he knows you want affection from him, he knows he could pretty much do what he wants right now and you will be waiting on him--so, if what you are currently doing isn't getting the results you want, try something different; try to act in someway he would never expect; surprise him a little--make him say, "she's never acted like this before, I didn't expect this". I do believe one person can change a marriage; when one person changes, it forces the other to react to that change. I remember when I started acting "strong and indifferent" to my husband--like he was just like anyother friend--I became a challenge--he said to me "gosh you've changed"; he said it with a smile. That in turn made me feel so much stronger. Like I said before, even when a man leaves a marriage, alot of times he wants to know that the wife is there IF HE should want to come back. If you don't act like he expects you to and he feels as if you are slipping away and getting on with your life--he gets scared; and that's what he needs to be--SCARED as hell. He needs to be made to think, that obviously he saw something in you so he married you, what would keep a stranger from seeing the same great qualities in you and sweeping you off of your feet???<p>I will have to give him credit for going to counseling--that is a big step--but remember to love yourself. How you perceive yourself, is normally how others perceive you as well. If you see yourself as a strong woman, others will see you the same way--and that's definately attractive. Sometimes I would try to put myself in my husband's place and think to myself--how does my husband perceive me when I act like this??? It really puts things in perspective.<p>Keep me posted!!!--and read Kitty's reply!!<br>

patient - <p>I know how you feel right now - it is very hard for you. You have so many hopes for reconciliation, and he does not...<p>My situation has developed somewhat, but not in the direction I wanted. My H moved out too, but one month after was convinced more than ever that he did not want our marriage at all.<p>I am not telling you not to hope for him to come back. Your own conscience will tell you when to stop hoping, your own gut will let you feel it... some have even told me that there is still hope in my situation - that he could come back. All I know is that if he does decide to do so, it would be way down the line, and I would be the one deciding to let him back, not him.<p>Having just come to accept my own situation, I can only suggest to you to keep in mind that there is no guarantee to the outcome that you desire (sorry for this...). You have to remember that, and to start putting together a plan for yourself and your children. You may reply - but I don't know how!!!! and that is how I felt. But with each rejection from my H, something new clicked in, and some of the fog lifted, and I came closer to a new decision. It is time to look towards other beacons of love in your life - your friends, your family.<p>Kitty's advice is good - it gets back to putting you first.<p>By all means, hang on to the hopes that you have, but make yourself strong. You will need it no matter how things turn out. <p>You will be asking your self many times "what did this mean? did he want to kiss me or not? was there anything positive?" It is an awful feeling to be left hanging like that. I found that in my case it was very destructive. Let him make things clear to you should he want to come back. It is difficult... but try not to fool yourself.<p>Janet

I agree with the others (my topic is Depressed Spouse/need guidance) even though I'm currently not following this advice--I intend to get back to it straightway!<p>It is terribly hard when the spouse comes to the house to be with the kids and he makes it plain that he hardly wants to look at you. And you just want to force him to DECIDE ON/CHOOSE you. I feel exactly the same way. Do find someone to spend some time with this weekend. Don't brood alone because besides being not good for you, it leaves you nothing to talk about casually with him except your relationship and that's the worst topic to pick. Our therapist forbade it outside of therapy for the first month. I thought he was crazy--or that the top of my head would blow off--but it helped.<p>Once you have established some equanimity, here's a suggestion, our first outing alone after separation took place after Parent Teachers Conferences, I asked him ahead of time if we could go for ice cream because I didn't always want to discuss the kids with him in front of the kids, or more likely as we're being interrupted by the kids. Ice cream is very innocuous and the kids are something you both need to be current with and you don't want to communicate through the kids. We also needed the neutral territory, my H started to hate to come to the house, actually suffered avoidance of both the house and me. For us it established that we could be together and converse almost normally and after that he was much more willing to try weekly dates--during which we absolutely did not discuss our relationship, tough, but it really helped him to be open to spending time with me and this was before he would agree to marriage counselling, which I think it led to. <p>Good luck to you and God bless.

Well, as it turns out he got the feeling last night that he had not lived up to my expectations and he felt bad for it. He felt bad that I felt bad. There's more, of course, but I think that sums it up. He knew I wanted him to talk to me, hug me, etc. but he wasn't there - and can't "make" himself. Bottom line for me: I expected too much and got hurt for it.<p>Maybe we were sort of on the same wavelength after all.<p>Tonight's topic for discussion was how to communicate. You know, one person says something and you repeat it back in your own words. It seems silly on the surface, but when you never learned how to really listen I guess it's a good exercise to practice. <p>Yeah it was awkward seeing him, but we talked a bit afterwards before we got in our cars. I got the hug I wanted and he told me he loves me. It's not everything I wanted but I was satisfied. Maybe because I expected nothing and got something.<p>Today started off rotten, but got progressively better (it didn't help that I didn't sleep worth a sh** last night). I told my oldest tonight after I got home from our session that I am going to have good days and bad days. This one is ending in the good column I think :-).<p>My first night out will see me going out straight from work, but I'm not going to stay out all night. He'll bring the kids back around lunchtime Saturday and since my brothers live across town, I don't want to have go get up and drive home.<p>I hope this rollercoaster ride ends soon. On the upward swing...

Patient ... sounds like you are on an upswing. Just remember ... we who are sure of our love for our spouses want to fly to recovery - but the uncertain spouses sometimes don't want even to move forward at first, and then, they go forward at an excrutiatingly slow pace. We need to take baby steps.<p>Remember baby steps... every tiny bit of progress is progress - don't expect him to fly because you are ready - he's still on baby steps.<p>terri