My situation is different than anyone elses, and I need some advise. My HB and I are divorced, 1 year now. We lived in Missouri together at the time. After the divorce I moved to Texas. Two months later HB called to say "I'm sorry and missed me. Six months later he moves to Texas to be with me. First week in Texas, states he is confused and he thinks he made a mistake in coming to Texas after all. He states he does not want to remarry me. We sleep together (no sex) just sleep. I kept my patience and pray. Now after 4 months he has shown quite a bit of affection - holding hands,cuddling on couch only, wants me to with him every minute, cooks for me, treats me to dinner, birthday and Christmas gifts, help me with the laundry and good conversations. He meets all of my needs except no lovemaking. He attends church with me and we even just completed a 12-week course in "Marriage Intimincy class given by our church to improve ones marriage. We were the only couple out of 50 that were divorced. We learned alot and we both enjoyed it. The problem is - we have not discussed any other arrangements for the future. He and I seem afraid to bring it up. I really believe he still loves me and he shows it,but because of hurts in the marriage I think he's afraid of re-marring me. Afraid that we have not learned and changed. I'm not sure. We have discussed him moving out of the bedroom. He states he does not want to, but will go if I want him to. But I don't want him to leave, so here we are, sleeping together but no lovemaking. I'm the one who is confussed!<P>I called and spoke with my pastor last night. He stated because my XH has a problem with his dominating, controlling, self-centered mother who calls to lay guilt trips on him for growing up and leaving her. That XH probably is confused about what love is and therefore, can't understand or accept my unconditional love. I don't criticize, because I have reconized that XH does have low self-esteem. I love him so much therefore, I have always made a point in praising him or to just call to say "I Love You". He does need counseling for him to deal with this and to understand why he feels the way he does. Not so sure he would go. I did also last night ask XH to leave our bed and move into the other bedroom which he did.<P>[This message has been edited by Crystal Dawn (edited January 05, 2001).]<P>[This message has been edited by Crystal Dawn (edited January 05, 2001).]<P>IMHO, the problem is not just his. *Y0U* need to see that *you* are attempting a "tit-for-tat" withdrawal of your meeting of some of his needs in an effort to coerce (I'm using harsh words here, sorry, but you need a slap in the face) him into desiring you sexually. It's ludicrous. Why would you punish him in response to what his mother is doing? Do you think it can be solved so simply? You're not going to get what you want this way. You're only going to cause the both of you more pain. <P>This is not to say that I expect you to live the rest of your life with a person who won't make love to you. That's not a husband, and you wouldn't be a wife.<P>You need to get into the "His Needs/Her Needs" type books, and get some background in sexual dysfunction--it could even be that his attitude is hiding a *physical* problem that he is not psychologically ready to face. None of us here *knows* exactly what's going on. I just don't want you doing what pops into your head without a sound basis. If necessary, ask your minister about your planned course of action ... perhaps not the most scientific thinking, but better than going it alone.<P>And if you get your own thread (subject, topic, whatever you want to call it), you'll get an e-mail whenever someone replies to it. Right now, my answers to are creating reminders in REJECTED's e-mail in-box, and her problem is exactly the *opposite* of yours so all this probably just annoys her.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by Crystal Dawn (edited January 05, 2001).]

OK, that gives readers the first part of your post ... now cut and paste some more from the old thread where it started so that they know "the rest of the story" and you'll be off to the races in getting some ideas other than the ones I've already given.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus:<BR><B>OK, that gives readers the first part of your post ... now cut and paste some more from the old thread where it started so that they know "the rest of the story" and you'll be off to the races in getting some ideas other than the ones I've already given.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>New kid on the block - I am new at this cut and paste thing - it seemed to take me forever to do and then I'm not sure I'm doing it right.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Crystal Dawn:<BR><B>My XH moved back with me - see my post (XH moved back, no sex, no ring. Anyway, he has not found a job since July?? Only unemployment checks. So I pay most of the bills. He needed money for his car payment. He does not know how I got the money.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Whoa! Whoa! Whoa! There's a good reason for not doing anything in the bedroom -- he's out of a job! His self-esteem sure is shot!<P>BUT - he should have a job. Some kind of job. Any kind of job. You shouldn't be pawning *your* things so he can keep his *car*, and allowing him to live rent-free. That's enabling (and disabling at the same time, if you catch my drift). This guy needs to stand on his own two feet, not lie across your shoulders. <P>The pressure shouldn't be to perform in the bedroom. The pressure should be to GET A JOB! Likely as not, the other will then take care of itself.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus:<BR><B> <P><p>[This message has been edited by Crystal Dawn (edited January 08, 2001).]

Sisyphus,<P>In July,XH came down to TX because as he stated "he wanted to restore our marriage". The first night he was here XH said he made a terrible mistake and is not in love with me after all. That is the reason there is no sex. After your told that, you certainly never bring up the subject of sex again. He also wanted to stay in the same bed as he put it - because of "insecurities". I didn't ask him to move out of our bedroom because of no sex, but because it was very difficult for me to lay next to the man I loved and he not want me. 6 mos. was all I could stand.<P>I understand he is under stress and needs to work so he will feel that he is contributing. I try to make my conversations with XH as stress free as possible. XH also states that he wants to leave, but to where?? He does not want to go back to Missouri. I don't understand men! I will continue to show love towards him<BR>and I pray continus, but my pastor said XH will have to work this out for himself.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Crystal Dawn:<BR><B>I don't understand men! I will continue to show love towards him and I pray continusly, but my pastor said XH will have to work this out for himself.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Nor do we understand ourselves. However, maintaining a parasite under your roof when you can't even get sex from him (this is a little joke: You shouldn't *want* to sleep with him in his current state) is foolishness, not devotion and heroism. <P>So, let's say you really *love* him (rather than just having an ache to have a man around). If he doesn't *love* you in the same way; you realize it won't work. Your love for him means you know he needs two things he doesn't have right now: work, and someone he does love. <P>While you're putting a roof over his head and paying his way, there's little motivation toward the former; and while he's living with you, he's unlikely to discover (or be able to bond with) the latter. <P>Therefore, if you love him, your #1 and #2 goals, in no particular order, should be his gainful employment and absence from your abode. <P>If things turn out differently, fine and dandy; however, you need to act as though you believe that he doesn't love you. If he does truly love you, he's either self-deluding or a liar, two entirely new potential problems to be dealt with only after you resolve the work and the living arrangements.

P.S. in regard to the stressful conversations: Is it fair that *you're* under stress while *he* isn't? Appropriate stress drives humans forward and upward. It is only excessive stress, or stress which we simply cannot equip ourselves to handle in time, that crushes us.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus:<BR><B> Nor do we understand ourselves. However, maintaining a parasite under your roof when you can't even get sex from him (this is a little joke: You shouldn't *want* to sleep with him in his current state) is foolishness, not devotion and heroism. <P>So, let's say you really *love* him (rather than just having an ache to have a man around). If he doesn't *love* you in the same way; you realize it won't work. Your love for him means you know he needs two things he doesn't have right now: work, and someone he does love. <P>While you're putting a roof over his head and paying his way, there's little motivation toward the former; and while he's living with you, he's unlikely to discover (or be able to bond with) the latter. <P>Therefore, if you love him, your #1 and #2 goals, in no particular order, should be his gainful employment and absence from your abode. <P>If things turn out differently, fine and dandy; however, you need to act as though you believe that he doesn't love you. If he does truly love you, he's either self-deluding or a liar, two entirely new potential problems to be dealt with only after you resolve the work and the living arrangements.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I really do believe he still has love for me, hes just not in love with me at this moment. When one is in the middle of turmoil and confussion, sometimes your not sure what your real feelings are. <P>XH felt he loved me enough to move down here 6 mos. ago. <P>I don't know if you are a Christian or not. But all I can is - God has already answered 4 prayers and given 2 visions regarding my XH. Everything is in God's time. I can't look at this situation as hopless even though it "appears" to look that why. God is in the business of changing peoples heart. My paster believes that my XH is at the place hes in because Gods at work. 4 mos. before XH came to TX I prayed that he would come so that we would heal and our marriage would be restored.<BR>

When Jesus chased the moneychangers from the Temple, did they burst into everlasting flame from which there was no relief? Did he hate them? <P>No, he loved them. Nonetheless, he didn't politely go from stall to stall, saying "Please leave here so you're not defiling my father's house." That wouldn't have worked. He had to take bold and effective action. The most loving human ever to walk the face of the earth DID NOT PUSSYFOOT in an intolerable situation!<P>What happened to the moneychangers? We don't know. Some of them may have moved on to make money elsewhere. Some surely whispered against Jesus to the Pharisees and Sadducees and the Romans and whoever else would listen. But some may have become followers, or at least changed their ways. Jesus' example didn't change every heart he encountered. But Jesus did not scale back his response to evil; even evil that had a long and venerable position in society.<P>I can't tell you to kick him out. I can't make him get a job, nor can I make him decide whether or not he really loves you as a husband loves a wife. I can tell you that you are posting on this board because you are caught in an intolerable limbo between rejection and reconciliation, responsibility and abdication, passion and frigidity.<P>It's time you reflect your discomfort back to him. The only question is whether you will use incrementalism or shock treatment. Without knowing him, I don't know which will work. What I will tell you is that job and living quarters (not separate rooms, but whether he's in a separate place) are the keys, not whether or not he'll have sex with you. Fix those two first, and for your own sake, do it decisively.

Sisyphus,<P>You know, I can't put my finger on you.... I read your posts and they do have good points (not always, but usually ), but I just can't figure out if you are a "just the facts" type of person or if there is just an abundant amount of anger about your own situation, or what. One thing that does strike me is when given the choice between passiveness and aggressiveness, you choose the latter in most cases.<P>While that may be good for you, please understand that there are many here who are in tender, very emotional points in their lives. It is true that sometimes people need to be "slapped upside the head" with reality every now and then, but I see it coming through on your posts more often than not and usually when you are only getting bits and pieces of the person's story. You have to be aware, especially for the "newbies" to this site; that people are here for advice - true. But they are also here for some comforting words and encouragement.<P>While some situations will benefit from an aggresive stance by a spouse, there are others that will be greatly hurt by it. I am not asking you to "not say" what you think, because I believe that through disagreements we often learn a lot. But maybe, just maybe you might "tone" down the aggressive approach, at least until you get all the details about a person's situation (which usually only comes through during a dialogue of posts).<P>Please don't take offense to what I said, because I do agree with your points of view many times. Maybe it would help if you are not so "this is the only course of action that will work, so do it".<P> <BR>Mike

Crystal Dawn,<P>While pastors and priests are great sources of comfort and advice, my advice is to get your husband and yourself to some joint marriage counseling. There seem to be quite a few good things going for you and a possible reconciliation, but they need to be worked on. His moving to where you are is a good sign, especially if he is the one who chose the divorce in the first place. His respecting your wishes is also a good sign.<P>It sounds like you both do still love each other, but that you may not know the right ways to show and express that love. While his mother may be partly to blame for who he is now, one thing you and he, need to remember is that "who you are now, is who you choose to be". Too many times we get stuck blaming our current lives on our past. What we need to be doing is looking at our past and learning from it, not blaming it. When you blame you immobilize yourself - you give yourself an excuse not to work to get better - "its my mom's fault, I can't do anything about it".<P>It also sounds like religion is something that is important in both your lives. Then you will remember that even in the bible it tells us to "seek counsel" in times of trouble. While a pastor/priest is a good starting point (and someone to keep in the process), there are people who work with troubled marriages for a living. They have more experience and they may be able to better help the two of you.<P>I love to hear stories of God answering prayers - but remember that He wants us to take care of the gifts He gives us. If that means getting professional help for your marriage, then maybe it is something you need to do.<P>Finally, keep in mind that things like these don't change overnight. Chances are the problems that led to your divorce did not just appear out of the blue. In that case, you need to remember that the path to reconciliation is long and often filled with obstacles and troubles. Take it slow. There is no need to rush back into intimate relationships if either one of you is not ready. YOU ARE TOGETHER, RIGHT? That is a good start.<P>Sisyphus does have a good point though - he should be getting a job, any kind of job. While I don't agree that his moving out is necessarily needed at this point, he should be at least contributing financially to the household.<P>God Bless and Keep.<P>Mike<P>Good Luck and God Bless.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoTired2000:<BR><B>One thing that does strike me is when given the choice between passiveness and aggressiveness, you choose the latter in most cases.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Look closer. Action vs. Inaction (not the cruder dichotomy you suggest). Change vs. Status Quo. People are not here because they're happy and content. If you look at my earliest posts on the "Why Women Leave Men?" board, you'll see I got plenty of sympathy, but how much encouragement for me to look beyond what I could see then through my own fog? <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum15/HTML/000164.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum15/HTML/000164.html</A> <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B><BR>While that may be good for you, please understand that there are many here who are in tender, very emotional points in their lives. It is true that sometimes people need to be "slapped upside the head" with reality every now and then, but I see it coming through on your posts more often than not and usually when you are only getting bits and pieces of the person's story. You have to be aware, especially for the "newbies" to this site; that people are here for advice - true. But they are also here for some comforting words and encouragement.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, there's a 180 here on my part. But look how *much* was omitted originally. That doesn't often happen in a post that lengthy (in the terse ones, I probe for more before saying much). Those <B>comforting words and encouragement</B> appear in abundance from other sources if I omit them occasionally. I can't type that many parentheses anyway. When I suggest a thing, I don't tout it as a panacea. I don't claim I know everything. I expect to hear back one or more reasons why that idea will have to be modified. I don't often slap (although I may suggest a few slaps). You don't often hear "toldyaso!" from me. If someone can't bring themselves to do what I suggest and it goes wrong, I don't assume my idea would have worked any better, nor do I think that's the time to show how smart I am (that's the time to comfort).<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>While some situations will benefit from an aggresive stance by a spouse, there are others that will be greatly hurt by it. I am not asking you to "not say" what you think, because I believe that through disagreements we often learn a lot. But maybe, just maybe you might "tone" down the aggressive approach, at least until you get all the details about a person's situation</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>People are here for ideas as well as sympathy. Perhaps I let my own analysis of what was missing for me on that other board before color what I write now. I don't think I am particularly aggressive (although in this instance, aggressive action seems overdue). <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Please don't take offense to what I said, because I do agree with your points of view many times. Maybe it would help if you are not so "this is the only course of action that will work, so do it".<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm very difficult to offend. I think you'll find very few occasions when I recommend something as the *only* course of action ... as a lawyer, disclaimers flow far too easily from my typing fingers.<P>And in this case, hubby doesn't seem to want to go to counseling. When that happens, and you're already in counseling yourself, you have to trust that the counselor will be willing to accept the risk of suggesting action rather than a "wait-and-see" approach. I think there's far too much of the latter, because the counselor is afraid of something going wrong with his advice. The easier path is to simply string the person along and wait for something, anything, to happen "out-of-the-blue".<P>The people we remember from history (for good or ill) are largely *not* people who *didn't* act (and when we run across the latter, inaction usually was *not* a good thing). The chinese character for *crisis* combines the ideas of "danger" and "opportunity". Most newbies here are in crisis. That usually means it's time to *act*. Get moving, and apply course corrections as they seem needed.<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited January 08, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoTired2000:<BR><B>Crystal Dawn,<P>While pastors and priests are great sources of comfort and advice, my advice is to get your husband and yourself to some joint marriage counseling. There seem to be quite a few good things going for you and a possible reconciliation, but they need to be worked on. His moving to where you are is a good sign, especially if he is the one who chose the divorce in the first place. His respecting your wishes is also a good sign.<P>It sounds like you both do still love each other, but that you may not know the right ways to show and express that love. While his mother may be partly to blame for who he is now, one thing you and he, need to remember is that "who you are now, is who you choose to be". Too many times we get stuck blaming our current lives on our past. What we need to be doing is looking at our past and learning from it, not blaming it. When you blame you immobilize yourself - you give yourself an excuse not to work to get better - "its my mom's fault, I can't do anything about it".<P>It also sounds like religion is something that is important in both your lives. Then you will remember that even in the bible it tells us to "seek counsel" in times of trouble. While a pastor/priest is a good starting point (and someone to keep in the process), there are people who work with troubled marriages for a living. They have more experience and they may be able to better help the two of you.<P>I love to hear stories of God answering prayers - but remember that He wants us to take care of the gifts He gives us. If that means getting professional help for your marriage, then maybe it is something you need to do.<P>Finally, keep in mind that things like these don't change overnight. Chances are the problems that led to your divorce did not just appear out of the blue. In that case, you need to remember that the path to reconciliation is long and often filled with obstacles and troubles. Take it slow. There is no need to rush back into intimate relationships if either one of you is not ready. YOU ARE TOGETHER, RIGHT? That is a good start.<P>Sisyphus does have a good point though - he should be getting a job, any kind of job. While I don't agree that his moving out is necessarily needed at this point, he should be at least contributing financially to the household.<P>God Bless and Keep.<P>Mike<P>Good Luck and God Bless.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks! I needed to feel someone anyone would care enough to help me sort this mess out. I've been on the verge of crying all day. XH and I attended a 12 week marriage intimacy class offered by our church and we both enjoyed it. We were the only EX's there as this class was for "married couples". But they didn't throw us out. Good marriages or bad marriages, we all could use improvment. We did learn new things. But my XH feels he does not want counseling as we are divorced. He is very confussed about his life, direction, God, etc. I have no doubt that XH loves me. XH said he feels useless without job. Hates for me to pay for most everything. I can not and will not allow him to be homeless. I think all this takes a matter of time to sort out for both of us.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Crystal Dawn:<BR><B> He is very confused about his life, direction, God, etc. I have no doubt that XH loves me. XH said he feels useless without job. Hates for me to pay for most everything. I can not and will not allow him to be homeless. I think all this takes a matter of time to sort out for both of us.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Homelessness usually doesn't occur in the absence of mental illness or substance abuse ... people will find a place to stay and a way to pay for it. But in a sense he *is* homeless. He is not contributing, and it's slowly destroying him. I think he *does* hate that he's not contributing. But that's a reason for him to contribute, not continue with the <I>status quo</I>.<P>It's *your* place, paid for with *your* money, not his. He is a freeloading houseguest. If there are no jobs doing what he does in your area, he needs to either change what he does, or go where the jobs are. He's been out of work too long; and unemployment *will* run out.<BR>

I do agree, in a sense he is homeless now. Because umemployment running out soon he is panicing. He is paying for half of food, some utilities, no rent. He feels he's not doing all that he can. He goes on interviews, but at $7 an hour he will not take them. Waiting for $9 or more. I said to him, go sling hamburgers just so he would be out and working. Don't sit and watch TV all day. That seems to me it would take my mind off of my problems. Soon he will have no choice. Perhaps I will see him working at McDonalds?? What XH has said is, he can't consentrate on any goals, visions, nothing until he finds a job. He wants to stay active in church, friends, my family, etc. for now.

He can make more than 75% of the money he says he wants. Now. Today. He should pick the best opportunity out of all the sorry entry-level jobs he's got a shot at. Which will let him move up the fastest? Where will he best fit in? <P>It's nice to earn what you deserve; but when you're sliding down the ladder, that last rung can be the difference between salvation and sinking. <P>Pride has a lot to do with it. And flipping burgers is the most denigrated job there is. Would you be surprised to learn that big franchisors *make* their franchisees work in the stores? Want to own a BK or McDonalds (almost a sure ticket to being a millionaire--and you put up *a whole barrel* of your own money just to get started)? You're gonna flip some burgers before you're boss of your own store. <P>Nasty work will *not* steal his soul. If anything it will help him *find* it. <P>Tell him he doesn't have to stay long in a job he doesn't like. Tell him it's no big deal. Tell him you *know* how much it will hurt him to take a low-paying job, and that you will be there for him *every* time he comes home to show him he's your hero for doing it. <P>It's also easier to find a job when you *have* a job. An employer doesn't see you overeager or hangdog; nor does he wonder why, if you're a good employee, nobody is paying you to do a job right now. Your XH can walk in with his head held high.

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Crystal Dawn,<P>What may be happening (may be) is that your X is trying to work on one area of his life at a time. When he puts forth effort and for whatever reason, the results don't turn out as he expects, he becomes "stuck". Think of our lives as a three legged stool - each leg goes to support the entire individual. If one leg is shorter (or non-existent) then the stool can bear no weight or it will at least wobble uncontrollably. In my own opinion, what your husband may need is a motivational speaker Seriously though, he needs to dig down inside and get some momentum going. Whether that comes from his faith or his frustrations, he needs to get "moving". What I have always found helps me is to take a big goal (in this case getting his life together) and break it into the smallest pieces possible. This way I can focus on achieving one "small" thing at a time and before I know it the goal has been accomplished and I am on my way to bigger things. It is all in the momentum. My advice to you for your X is to help him get together a plan with daily goals included in it.<P>It sounds like he has some selfconfidence issues that may have gone even further back then your divorce (possibly even your marriage). Maybe you can word the "counseling" not so much as "marriage counseling" but rather "relationship counseling". And better yet, make it conditional upon him staying with you in your house. Maybe go as far as to insist that if he wants to stay, that you want him to accompany you to counseling. Do it in a nice but firm tone. Tell him that you want things to work out for him and for you. That you care and are worried about him. That he may just be in a "bad" place right now and by meeting with someone, you, yourself may be able to figure out ways that you can help him. Even if you have to make is seem that he would be going to counseling with you for your benefit, it may be worth doing. I speak here from personal experience; My wife had tried for quite a while to get me to go to a counselor with her. But I fought it tooth and nail (the old macho image - I don't need no help). What makes me so sad though is that once I did go, I became quickly aware of how much I didn't know about marriage and relationships. And even more I found out a lot about myself and who I was. What started out as the last thing I wanted to do, turned into the best thing I ever did. But unfortunately it looks like for my own marriage, it was a little too late.<P>There is nothing wrong with you wanting to help and care for your husband right now. That is right, I said "husband". While legally he may not be your husband anymore, from God's view, you two still have a bond together. He may really need someone like you in his life at this moment. But it is a fine line between lending a helping hand and being taken advantage of. What is that old saying "give a man a fish - he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime". Temper your care and love with a firm hand. Help him, but more importantly look for ways to make him start helping himself.<P>Helping someone you love is an admirable thing. But there is such a thing as helping someone "to a fault". One thing is for sure though, your X sounds like he needs to get things straight in his own mind, before you two begin to work out whatever marital problems you may have had.<P>One final thought: Love can conquer all, if just given a chance. Trust in the love it appears that you both have for each other. And realize that God helps us in His own time, not ours. Patience in all things.<P>God Bless you both.<BR>Mike

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoTired2000:<BR><B>Crystal Dawn,<P>What may be happening (may be) is that your X is trying to work on one area of his life at a time. When he puts forth effort and for whatever reason, the results don't turn out as he expects, he becomes "stuck". Think of our lives as a three legged stool - each leg goes to support the entire individual. If one leg is shorter (or non-existent) then the stool can bear no weight or it will at least wobble uncontrollably. In my own opinion, what your husband may need is a motivational speaker Seriously though, he needs to dig down inside and get some momentum going. Whether that comes from his faith or his frustrations, he needs to get "moving". What I have always found helps me is to take a big goal (in this case getting his life together) and break it into the smallest pieces possible. This way I can focus on achieving one "small" thing at a time and before I know it the goal has been accomplished and I am on my way to bigger things. It is all in the momentum. My advice to you for your X is to help him get together a plan with daily goals included in it.<P>It sounds like he has some selfconfidence issues that may have gone even further back then your divorce (possibly even your marriage). Maybe you can word the "counseling" not so much as "marriage counseling" but rather "relationship counseling". And better yet, make it conditional upon him staying with you in your house. Maybe go as far as to insist that if he wants to stay, that you want him to accompany you to counseling. Do it in a nice but firm tone. Tell him that you want things to work out for him and for you. That you care and are worried about him. That he may just be in a "bad" place right now and by meeting with someone, you, yourself may be able to figure out ways that you can help him. Even if you have to make is seem that he would be going to counseling with you for your benefit, it may be worth doing. I speak here from personal experience; My wife had tried for quite a while to get me to go to a counselor with her. But I fought it tooth and nail (the old macho image - I don't need no help). What makes me so sad though is that once I did go, I became quickly aware of how much I didn't know about marriage and relationships. And even more I found out a lot about myself and who I was. What started out as the last thing I wanted to do, turned into the best thing I ever did. But unfortunately it looks like for my own marriage, it was a little too late.<P>There is nothing wrong with you wanting to help and care for your husband right now. That is right, I said "husband". While legally he may not be your husband anymore, from God's view, you two still have a bond together. He may really need someone like you in his life at this moment. But it is a fine line between lending a helping hand and being taken advantage of. What is that old saying "give a man a fish - he eats for a day, teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime". Temper your care and love with a firm hand. Help him, but more importantly look for ways to make him start helping himself.<P>Helping someone you love is an admirable thing. But there is such a thing as helping someone "to a fault". One thing is for sure though, your X sounds like he needs to get things straight in his own mind, before you two begin to work out whatever marital problems you may have had.<P>One final thought: Love can conquer all, if just given a chance. Trust in the love it appears that you both have for each other. And realize that God helps us in His own time, not ours. Patience in all things.<P>God Bless you both.<BR>Mike</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>I do agree with everything you say. In talking with XH last night, I suggested counseling so that he could find some understanding as to what and why things are happening. I know I must be very careful in the way I handle this situation so XH won't feel I am trying to "control" him. Yes, he does have some selfconfidence issues to resolve. That all stems from his controlling mother.<P>He does NOT want "marriage counseling" as he feels only one of us is "in love" and he knows its not him. Big hurt! But on the other hand, he "forgets" for a moment and will act like my best friend and attend to my needs. Thats why I still believe he has love for me.<P>He goes threw periods of deep depression and other times when we are together he jokes, laughs, leans into me and looks for advise from me.<P>Because he feels "trapped" as he puts it, is why I try to encourage and let him know that he is not alone.<P>I'm not sure if you have read my earlier posting, but as I have said. God has answered my other prayers and 1 vision out of 2 pertaining to my XH. Yes, I know in God's eyes we are still married! And I will tell you how I know and do not doubt. One year ago my XH anounced he wanted a divorce. In prayer, I believe I heard God say to me, "trust me and I will heal and restore your marriage, but you must first learn to stand in faith". I had never heard the words "stand in faith". Did not know what they meant. No pastor ever preached on the subject. God lead me to a book on Faith. A very deep informative book. And with God's help I learned. I know that if I don't become frustrated and give up, just trust and obey God then I will have my hearts desire.<BR>