Spirituality is great, but remember that Christ took practical action:<P>He traveled, worked wood, learned and taught, preached and healed, raised the dead and cast out demons, drove the aforementioned moneychangers from the aforementioned temple, coaxed people out of trees, turned water into wine, multiplied a supply of food, carried and, finally, sacrificed himself on, the cross. Sometimes he did these things on the Sabbath, when narrower thinkers tried to tell him he shouldn't.<P>He also allowed someone to meet his needs (opulently at that), even in the face of criticism of both his actions and his association with the person doing it.<P>My point would be that you should be open to hearing answers to your prayers that move you to do things that improve your own situation. That what you resolve to do could be a prayer being answered, not you hijacking God's intention.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus:<BR><B>Spirituality is great, but remember that Christ took practical action:<P>He traveled, worked wood, learned and taught, preached and healed, raised the dead and cast out demons, drove the aforementioned moneychangers from the aforementioned temple, coaxed people out of trees, turned water into wine, multiplied a supply of food, carried and, finally, sacrificed himself on, the cross. Sometimes he did these things on the Sabbath, when narrower thinkers tried to tell him he shouldn't.<P>He also allowed someone to meet his needs (opulently at that), even in the face of criticism of both his actions and his association with the person doing it.<P>My point would be that you should be open to hearing answers to your prayers that move you to do things that improve your own situation. That what you resolve to do could be a prayer being answered, not you hijacking God's intention.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>What do you mean "hijacking God's intention"?<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Crystal Dawn:<BR><B> What do you mean "hijacking God's intention"?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I mean following your own intention instead of God's. God can move you to act, not just wait. If he does, you should be in readiness for such a message, not frozen in believing that he only wants you to stand in faith and wait. You can do both, if that be God's will; you need only be open to his message.<P>

Crystal Dawn,<P>This whole thing about being "in love" perplexes me - maybe it always will. For me, relating to a spouse/partner, I don't separate the two. If I love someone, then I love them. There were times in my marriage (sometimes several months) that I felt like I wasn't "in-love" with my wife. But I knew that I loved her. I never told her how I was feeling, knowing that it would change - and it did. Looking back I now see that the times I felt like I was not "in-love" really had nothing to do with my wife or her actions. It was about me. Those were the times that I was extremely stressed out, or were times where I felt I didn't love myself.<P>But I knew I "loved" my wife. My wife, like your X, don't understand that marriage is not about just being "in-love". Sure it is important, but it is not the main reason that marriage exists. In the vows we make, we never say "in sickness and in health, for better and for worse, for being in-love". <P>I even went as far as to do a little survey among some family and friends that have been married 30, 40 even 50 years. While they all say they never stopped loving their spouse, they do say that there were times in their lives (sometimes years) where they did not feel "in-love". But they all said that those times come and go throughout the course of their marriage. What kept them together was when the times of "not being in-love" came, they fell back upon their love for their spouses, knowing that the feelings of "in love" will return as long as they show their love.<P>I guess what I am trying to say here is that if your X says he is not "in love" with you now, you need to remember that he probably couldn't be "in love" with anyone at this time in his life. For if you don't feel love for yourself, it is extremely difficult, if not impossible to feel loving feelings for another.<P>Finally, your X sounds extremely confused about who he is and what he wants. No matter what, it is worth at least for him to go to counseling. If you need to attend as well just to get him to go, then so be it. But I fear that if he refuses help, he will only begin to drag you down as well.<P>Again, we always should be looking to help others, but it is very difficult to try and help someone who doesn't even believe in helping themselves.<P>You are in my prayers today.<BR>Mike

I agree with you 100%. I can't separate the two. When I love someone, it is completely. I give my all. I am committed all the way. When I was married, I never looked at another man for 13 years. No one could compare to my H. But, I did reconized he had problems and I would always try to get him to communitcate with me. Sometimes he would, but he would struggle to talk.<P>I really think you figured out my XH. I do know at this time he can not love anyone including himself. He has often stated that.<P>Thanks to both of you for your help. Some of the things said has hurt, such as (slap). Others times you have helped me to understand how and why this is happening. I will work to help XH and/or myself to heal. Thanks!

Hi Crystal Dawn,<P>I just wanted to tell you that you are not alone. We have been divorced for a year and are now living together. We talk about the future and I think that he purchased a ring two months ago .... I don't know why he hasn't asked yet. We enjoy making love, but it is not as often as I would like it and he quite often rejects me.<P>The only difference between us seems to be that my X was two-timing me (affair) for 9 months when we first starting getting back together. It has been 5 months since the affair ended and 4 months since he told me about it. The sex was great before the affair and during the affair, but now it seems to be lacking.<P>I do think that there is a link between employment and sex. My X has a job in the fast food industry and I have a professional job. He gets paid less than me and he does want to finish college and get a professional job, but we can't afford for him to go to college yet due to our almost overwhelming debt problem. (Maybe next year)<P>Not having a job or not having the type of job that a man wants does affect his self-confidence which I believe in turn affects the sex drive.<P>I agree with the other posts that encourage motivational speakers, counseling, or other methods of increasing his self-esteem. <P>Suggestion - If you have the money, I would suggest paying for him to go back to school or other training. Perhaps with more training he will be able to apply and get the higher paying job that he wants. And if he is going to class, then he is not sitting around all day and he will be doing something to increase his self-esteem.<P>I wouldn't kick him out of the bedroom, I think that that is a major love buster. I continue to show my X affection. He'll receive it, but he rarely makes the first move.<P>Are you trying to meet his other emotional needs?<P>------------------<BR>Jennidy<P>"Work like you don't need the money,<BR>Love like you've never been hurt, and<BR>Dance like no one's watching."

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jennidy:<BR><B>Hi Crystal Dawn,<P>I just wanted to tell you that you are not alone. We have been divorced for a year and are now living together. We talk about the future and I think that he purchased a ring two months ago .... I don't know why he hasn't asked yet. We enjoy making love, but it is not as often as I would like it and he quite often rejects me.<P>The only difference between us seems to be that my X was two-timing me (affair) for 9 months when we first starting getting back together. It has been 5 months since the affair ended and 4 months since he told me about it. The sex was great before the affair and during the affair, but now it seems to be lacking.<P>I do think that there is a link between employment and sex. My X has a job in the fast food industry and I have a professional job. He gets paid less than me and he does want to finish college and get a professional job, but we can't afford for him to go to college yet due to our almost overwhelming debt problem. (Maybe next year)<P>Not having a job or not having the type of job that a man wants does affect his self-confidence which I believe in turn affects the sex drive.<P>I agree with the other posts that encourage motivational speakers, counseling, or other methods of increasing his self-esteem. <P>Suggestion - If you have the money, I would suggest paying for him to go back to school or other training. Perhaps with more training he will be able to apply and get the higher paying job that he wants. And if he is going to class, then he is not sitting around all day and he will be doing something to increase his self-esteem.<P>I wouldn't kick him out of the bedroom, I think that that is a major love buster. I continue to show my X affection. He'll receive it, but he rarely makes the first move.<P>Are you trying to meet his other emotional needs?<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Since XH left the bedroom (4 days)ago, all hell has broken loose! He has been angry, critizes every word, states that I am making unreasonable request of him, can't sleep and started to cry at one point. I am trying to help him, that is why I came to this board. I needed other points of view. <P>We have been taking care of each others needs except NO sex. That really is not a problem for me. (Please read the earlier posts). <P>The "unreasonable request" as follows: He told me that the door handle on my car broke, he heard something drop inside the door panel. I asked if he would be able to drive me to work the next day and later take the door panel off to see what was going on? He threw a fit. "Do you know what you are asking me to do? What if it rains? or the weather is to cold to be outside? Why am I making demands on him"? I immediately back off. I realize he is stressed, and that I must formulate my words just so, or......but his attitude changed since he left the bedroom. Perhaps, I did make a mistake in asking him to leave. I will talk with him again tonight.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Crystal Dawn:<BR><B> Since XH left the bedroom (4 days)ago, all hell has broken loose! ... Perhaps, I did make a mistake in asking him to leave. I will talk with him again tonight.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I've gone from "don't kick him out of the bedroom" to "get him out of the house!" What I say may not count for much anymore. I will say that I think the separate room is a *very* awkward middle ground, and I'm not sure how helpful it is. <P>I was the spouse who was out of the marital bedroom for several months. It gave my XW the ability to take what she wanted from the relationship and reject the rest. On my side, it prolonged the pain--a long, slow, lesser torment instead of a short, sharp shock. On her side, it eased her transition to life without me. Supposing I had departed outright and we had extended periods alone with our thoughts, our outcome might have been different. As it was, I would sometimes accept, other times deny her invitation to sleep in the bedroom, and at still other times try to impose myself there (sometimes to the point where she would go sleep at her brother's -- once for several nights in a row). Do either of those latter two sound conducive to healing?<P>In short, I'm not sure which is right ... keeping him in the bedroom or evicting him from the home entirely, but in this case I'm not sure the middle approach is best either. <BR>I'm sure someone (Gottman, Harley, Dobson, Weiner-Davis) has some more detail on this situation. I don't think you've heard much helpful counsel up until now on this topic, and I wish there was something more definitive to tell you.

This whole situation sounds like enabling with a capital E to me...(sorry if that was blunt).<P>Your semi-hubby is kind of having his emotional cake and and eating it too - he gets to make demands on you which you acquiece (sp?) to in order to avoid LB but he does little to help himself out of his current misery except whine and make excuses - is that really the level of emotionally-developed hubby you want?<P>He's getting the benefits of marriage without the commitment to it - emotionally, financially, and even sexually there for a while. But what is HE putting into the effort????<P>I am not saying to close the door to reconciliation - but maybe what is called for here is a little tough love. A job, any job, is better on self-esteem than unemployment (ask anyone who has been on welfare involuntarily) and ANY job, even flipping burgers, contributes to the household finances and erases the potentially emasculating feeling of "freeloading."<P>Furthermore, I would absolutely insist on either counseling of having your semi-hubby read and use the workbooks by Phil McGraw like Life Strategies or Relationship Recovery. Both make you take a good hard honest look at yourself and why you might be "stuck" in a place in your life that you *say* you don't want to be in. (Maybe, subconsciously, your situation puts hubby right where he's most familiar - having a mother-figure (you) taking care of his needs while he gets to be pretty much unaccountable for anything). Familiarity is safe. Not rewarding necessarily...but safe.<P>Lasty, IMHO, I would have semi-hubby move out. (I know...really anti-MB, but hear me out). I think he needs to mature, learn to stand on his own two feet, find his priorities and strength of character and then come to you as a whole man ready to partner with you on equal terms. You can be a loving supportive friend through this transition, but I think it's the only way to break the enabling cycle and give you a chance at a lasting relationship.<P>And before I get flamed...no, I don't know you personally or semi-hubby or all the details of your situation...my 5 cent analysis is based only on the information in your posts and there could be many extenuating circumstance of which I am unaware. I only know from experience (my stbx) that men with controlling mothers who never learned to stand on their own often seek out partners who are overly responsible (despite their resentment of it)to continue childhood behavior patterns. They seek these partners then dump them resentfully over and over again until they self-exam, recognize the pattern, and learn to be independent. THEN, and only then, are they ready to be a true and equal partner.<P>Just one dumpee's opinion... <P>Lisa

Bravo soon2b_alone! Another take on the situation, another resource, more ideas. <BR>

I just reread this entire thread again - and I find my own post having completely agreed with Sisyphus - a rare occurence, but not a bad thing <P>One other thing to consider Crystal, especially with your level of spirituality...perhaps God led you to *this* message board and to this thread to get YOU into action. Pretty much everyone here agreed that you need to do whatever it takes to get semi-hubby moving and out of his stagnant despair. Tough love sometimes is required and rarely is it pretty or fun. But the payoffs can be HUGE.<P>Good luck.<P>Lisa<P>p/s Sisyphus---you are SUCH a lawyer !

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by soon2b_alone:<BR><B>Pretty much everyone here agreed that you need to do whatever it takes to get semi-hubby moving and out of his <I>stagnant despair.</I></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Just saw something there that I had missed ... XH ("semi-hubby" is funny, but it's too long to type repeatedly) is in "stagnant despair" - that sounds synonymous with depression. That issue has been the elephant in the living room of this discussion the whole time. If he's depressed, there will *not* be a job, there will *not* be a marriage, and there will *not* be even a semblance of a normal life. Don't make the mistake of thinking that depression is something that will manifest itself as total zombiehood ... it can wax and wane, and there may be specific things that mitigate it temporarily, and sometimes he will seek out these things, other things that help are things he will *not* initiate ... but that will temporarily help if they *happen* to come down the pike. <P>Here are some resources to look at, including self-inventories. Don't say: "here, do this," better you say "someone e-mailed me this and I tried it on myself for kicks. Why don't you try it?"<P> <A HREF="http://www.healthtechsys.com/ivrhamd.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.healthtechsys.com/ivrhamd.html</A> <A HREF="http://www.discoveryhealth.com/DH/ihtIH/WSDSC000/8271/9025.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.discoveryhealth.com/DH/ihtIH/WSDSC000/8271/9025.html</A> <A HREF="http://www.copewithlife.com/depressiontestmain.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.copewithlife.com/depressiontestmain.html</A> <A HREF="http://www.med.nyu.edu/Psych/screens/depres.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.med.nyu.edu/Psych/screens/depres.html</A> <P><BR>