I haven't posted here in over 4 months. I thought I could work things out on my own. My H left me in June 2000. Was having an affair and immediately moved in with OW. I never even knew he was unhappy. We had bad moments like every marriage, but there was no indication that he was having an affair. Anyway...he moved about an hour away so I have only seen him once since we've seperated. We have a child together but he never attempts to see her. Two weeks ago was when we met to start filling out divorce papers. It was so difficult for me - I still don't want this divorce. I wanted him to look ugly and maybe have gained some weight, but it was just the opposite. He looked gorgeous and I haven't been able to get him off my mind since. Everyone tells me how much better I am without him, but they just don't understand how much I love that man. I've had periods of feeling like I was really getting over him and then out of nowhere I was missing him again. We started the divorce papers but did not finish them. Since then I've tried to think of every legitimate excuse to contact him. They say "Absence makes the heart grow fonder," but for him I think it's more like "Out of sight, out of mind." He makes comments about OW that makes me believe he's not serious about her - however he tells me flat out that he does not want to be with me either. It hurts so bad to know that I put up with so much pain from him and supported him thru many wrong doings and then he's the one who walked out. I know I should probably let go, but I just can't. He is so confused - I can tell by his behavior. He had a horrible child hood and was not shown love so I don't think he really knows what love is. I'm so afraid that he might want to come back in a couple of years and by then I'll have moved on. But I also know that I can't put my life on hold forever. Another problem is me comparing our situation to his parents. They had the same problems with infidelity and there was even abuse there. They did many hurtful things to eachother, broke up many times, much worse problems than me and H. Twelve years ago, they worked everything out and now have the happiest marriage I know. If it was possible for them, why can't it be possible for us? I mean, my H is just like his father used to be and if the father could change - maybe H can too. <BR>Any advice????? I'm lost.

I'm really sorry for you. Many of us have been in your shoes,too many of us I'm afraid. There is nothing you can do to change the inevitable. You can try plan A but if he isn't wanting to see you or your daughter that makes it really hard. This really stinks don't it? My advice would be to let him make all of the moves concerning the divorce. Just make sure he is taking care of your daughter. As for contacting him thats ok just don't beg, it will only push him farther away and make you feel like a fool. Sounds to me like you are doing ok.<P>Just know you are not alone,<P>Jill

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Silvress:<BR><B> My H left me in June 2000. Was having an affair and immediately moved in with OW.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>What's the story with the OW? Alike or different from you? <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> I never even knew he was unhappy. We had bad moments like every marriage, but there was no indication that he was having an affair. Anyway...he moved about an hour away so I have only seen him once since we've seperated. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You need a good Plan A. Find out what it is and do it.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> We have a child together but he never attempts to see her. Two weeks ago was when we met to start filling out divorce papers. It was so difficult for me - I still don't want this divorce. I wanted him to look ugly and maybe have gained some weight, but it was just the opposite. He looked gorgeous and I haven't been able to get him off my mind since. Everyone tells me how much better I am without him, but they just don't understand how much I love that man. I've had periods of feeling like I was really getting over him and then out of nowhere I was missing him again.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You need to do whatever you can to motivate him to be involved in his daughter's life. Other than that, try to work on yourself and not pine for him ... remember him when do your Plan A, otherwise put him out of mind.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> We started the divorce papers but did not finish them. Since then I've tried to think of every legitimate excuse to contact him. They say "Absence makes the heart grow fonder," but for him I think it's more like "Out of sight, out of mind." <BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>Your daughter is a legitimate excuse to contact him. Every significant event should prompt a call. Meanwhile, you're working your Plan A. Don't rush the divorce paperwork. You want your daughter to have every chance to grow up with a mother and father who are married to each other.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B> He makes comments about OW that makes me believe he's not serious about her - however he tells me flat out that he does not want to be with me either. It hurts so bad to know that I put up with so much pain from him and supported him thru many wrong doings and then he's the one who walked out. I know I should probably let go, but I just can't. He is so confused - I can tell by his behavior. He had a horrible child hood and was not shown love so I don't think he really knows what love is. I'm so afraid that he might want to come back in a couple of years and by then I'll have moved on. But I also know that I can't put my life on hold forever. Another problem is me comparing our situation to his parents. They had the same problems with infidelity and there was even abuse there. They did many hurtful things to eachother, broke up many times, much worse problems than me and H. Twelve years ago, they worked everything out and now have the happiest marriage I know. If it was possible for them, why can't it be possible for us? I mean, my H is just like his father used to be and if the father could change - maybe H can too. <BR>Any advice????? I'm lost.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I hope he's not serious about OW. Don't let anyone take away your hope. If he is what you want, plot a course back to him. Do Plan A until you run out of patience, then switch to Plan B. When you do Plan B, do it until you forget you're doing it, and it becomes a part of your personality.<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited January 08, 2001).]

I have never met or seen ow....don't want to.<BR>But whenever H comes around and decides he wants to pick our daughter up for a visit, I will meet her first. <BR>Don't have much time to write. <BR>Thank you all for your thoughts....<BR>Thanks!!!

I will post something that someone gave me when I was in a similar position to you. Oneday you will understand it. It goes with a bit of plan Aing and a bit of plan bing It is long.<BR> I didnt know my marriage was in trouble till h left me and D for OW too. It really their excuse to justify the affair and will put or the blame back on you. Dont let them do this, they had the affair not you that has what caused this problem<P>The standard approach to marriage counselling is to teach husbands and wives how to revitalise unhealthy relationships and help them work through their conflicts. Unfortunately, such advice assumes that both parties are equally motivated to work on their problems. That is rarely the case. Typically, when a marriage is unravelling, there is one partner who is less concerned about the prospect of divorce, while the other is terrified by it. At its worse, as in cases of infidelity, the drifting member often has little desire to engage in counselling, except perhaps as a pretence to lessen guilt or criticism. He or she may have decided already that the relationship is over. <BR>It has been my observation that the way the committed partner responds at that vital juncture will determine whether the marriage will survive or succumb. I'll explain why in a moment. <P>Only those who have been rejected by a beloved spouse can fully comprehend the tidal wave of pain that crashes into one's life when a relationship ends. Nothing else matters. There are no consoling thoughts. The future is without interest or hope. Emotions swing wildly from despair to acceptance and back again. Nothing in human experience can compare with the agony of knowing that the person to whom you pledged eternal devotion has betrayed your trust and is now involved in sexual intimacies with a "stranger” . . . a competitor . . . a more beautiful or handsome playmate. Death itself would be easier to tolerate than being tossed aside like an old shoe. If one word must be selected to describe the entire experience, it would be something equivalent to panic. Just as a drowning person exhausts himself or herself in a desperate attempt to grasp anything that floats, a rejected partner typically tries to grab and hold the one who is leaving. This panic then leads to appeasement, which destroys what is left of the marriage. <P>Let's look for a moment at the other half of the relationship-focusing on the individual who wants out of the marriage. What secrets lie deep within the mind of the woman who has an affair with her boss, or the man who chases the office flirt? Surprising to some, the desire for sex is not the primary motivator in such situations. Something much more basic is operating below the surface. Long before any decision is made to "fool around" or walk out on a partner, a fundamental change has begun to occur in the relationship. Many books on this subject lay the blame on the failure to communicate, but I disagree. The inability to talk to one another is a symptom of a deeper problem, but it is not the cause itself. <BR>The critical element is the way a husband or wife begins to devalue the other and their lives together. It is a subtle thing at first, often occurring without either partner being aware of the slippage. But as time passes, one individual begins to feel trapped in a relationship with someone he or she no longer respects. <BR>Now we begin to see why grovelling, crying and pleading by a panic-stricken partner tend to drive the claustrophobic partner even farther away. The more he or she struggles to gain a measure of freedom (or even secure a little breathing room), the more desperately the rejected spouse attempts to hang on. Perhaps it is now apparent where the present line of reasoning is leading us. If there is hope for dying marriages, and I certainly believe there is, then it is likely to be found in the reconstruction of respect between warring husbands and wives. That requires the vulnerable spouse to open the cage door and let the trapped partner out! All the techniques of containment must end immediately, including manipulative grief, anger, guilt and appeasement. Begging, pleading, crying, hand-wringing and playing the role of the doormat are equally destructive. There may be a time and place for strong feelings to be expressed, and there may be an occasion for quiet tolerance. But these responses must not be used as persuasive devices to hold the drifting partner against his or her will. <P>To the reader who is desperately in need of this advice, please pay close attention at this point: I'm sure you would not have dreamed of using these coercive methods to convince your husband or wife to marry you during your dating days. You had to lure, attract, charm and encourage him or her. This subtle game of courtship had to take place one delicate step at a time. Obviously, it would not have been successful if you had wept violently and hung on the neck of your lover saying, "I think I'll die if you don't marry me! My entire life amounts to nothing without you. Please! Oh, please, don't turn me down," etc. Coercing and manipulating a potential marriage partner is like high-pressure tactics by a used car salesman. What do you think he would accomplish by telling a potential customer through his tears, "Oh, please, buy this car! I need the money so badly and I've only had two sales so far this week. If you turn me down, I think I'll go straight out and kill myself!" <P>This is a ridiculous analogy, of course, but there is applicability to it. When one has fallen in love with an eligible partner, he attempts to "sell himself" to the other. But like the salesman, he must not deprive the buyer of free choice in the matter. Instead, he must convince the customer that the purchase is in his own interest. If a person would not buy an automobile to ease the pain of a salesman, how much more unlikely is he to devote his entire being to someone he doesn't love, simply for benevolent reasons? None of us is that unselfish. <P>Ideally, we are permitted by God to select only one person in the course of a lifetime, and few are willing to squander that one shot on someone we merely pity! In fact, it is very difficult to love another person romantically and pity him or her at the same time. If begging and pleading are ineffective methods of attracting a member of the opposite sex during the dating days, why do victims of bad marriages use the same grovelling techniques to hold a drifting spouse? They only increase the depth of disrespect by the one who is escaping. Instead, they should convey their own version of the following message when the time is right: "John [or Diane], I've been through some very tough moments since you decided to leave, as you know. My love for you is so profound that I just couldn't face the possibility of life without you. To a person like me, who expected to marry only once and to remain committed for life, it is a severe shock to see our relationship begin to unravel. Nevertheless, I have done some intense soul-searching, and I now realise that I have been attempting to hold you against your will. That simply can't be done. As I reflect on our courtship and early years together, I'm reminded that you married me of your own free choice. I did not blackmail you or twist your arm or offer you a bribe. It was a decision you made without pressure from me. Now you say you want out of the marriage, and obviously, I have to let you go. I'm aware that I can no more force you to stay today than I could have made you marry me in 1989 [or whenever]. You are free to go. If you never call me again, then I will accept your decision. I admit that this entire experience has been painful, but I'm going to make it. The Lord has been with me thus far and He'll go with me in the future. You and I had some wonderful times together, John. You were my first real love and I'll never forget the memories that we shared. I will pray for you and trust that God will guide you in the years ahead." <P><BR>Slowly, unbelievably, the trapped spouse witnesses the cage door vibrate just a bit, and then start to rise. He can't believe it. This person to whom he has felt bound hand and foot for years has now set him free! It isn't necessary to fight off her advances-her grasping hands-any more. "But there must be a catch," he thinks. "It's too good to be true. Talk is cheap. This is just another trick to win me back. In a week or two she'll be crying on the phone again, begging me to come home. She's really weak, you know, and she'll crack under pressure." <P>It is my strongest recommendation that you, the rejected person, prove your partner wrong in this expectation. Let him marvel at your self-control in coming weeks. Only the passage of time will convince him that you are serious-that he is actually free. He may even test you during this period by expressions of great hostility or insult, or by flirtation with others. But one thing is certain: He will be watching for signs of weakness or strength. The vestiges of respect hang in the balance. <P>If the more vulnerable spouse passes the initial test and convinces the partner that his freedom is secure, some interesting changes begin to occur in their relationship. Please understand that every situation is unique and I am merely describing typical reactions, but these developments are extremely common in families I have seen. Most of the exceptions represent variations on the same theme. <P>Three distinct consequences can be anticipated when a previously "grabby" lover begins to let go of the cool spouse: The trapped partner no longer feels it necessary to fight off the other, and their relationship improves. It is not that the love affair is rekindled, necessarily, but the strain between the two partners is often eased. As the cool spouse begins to feel free again, the question he has been asking himself changes. After wondering for weeks or months, "How can I get out of this mess?" he now asks, "Do I really want to go?" Just knowing that he can have his way often makes him less anxious to achieve it. Sometimes it turns him around 180 degrees and brings him back home! The third change occurs not in the mind of the cool spouse but in the mind of the vulnerable one. Incredibly, he or she feels better somehow more in control of the situation. There is no greater agony than journeying through a vale of tears, waiting in vain for the phone to ring or for a miracle to occur. Instead, the person has begun to respect himself or herself and to receive small evidences of respect in return. <P>Even though it is difficult to let go once and for all, there are ample rewards for doing so. One of those advantages involves the feeling that he or she has a plan-a program-a definite course of action to follow. That is infinitely more comfortable than experiencing the utter despair of powerlessness that the victim felt before. And little by little, the healing process begins. <P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Only those rejected by a beloved spouse can fully comprehend the tidal wave of pain that crashes into one's life when a relationship ends. Nothing else matters. There are no consoling thoughts. The future is without interest or hope. Emotions swing wildly from despair to acceptance and back again. Nothing in human experience can compare with the agony of knowing that the person to whom you pledged eternal devotion has betrayed your trust and is now involved in sexual intimacies with a "stranger” . . . a competitor . . . a more beautiful or handsome playmate. Death itself would be easier to tolerate than being tossed aside like an old shoe. If one word must be selected to describe the entire experience, it would be something equivalent to panic. Just as a drowning person exhausts himself or herself in a desperate attempt to grasp anything that floats, a rejected partner typically tries to grab and hold the one who is leaving. This panic then leads to appeasement, which destroys what is left of the marriage. <P>Let's look for a moment at the other half of the relationship-focusing on the individual who wants out of the marriage. What secrets lie deep within the mind of ...<BR>The critical element is the way a husband or wife begins to devalue the other and their lives together. It is a subtle thing at first, often occurring without either partner being aware of the slippage. But as time passes, one individual begins to feel trapped in a relationship with someone he or she no longer respects. <P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is probably the most incredible passage I've seen posted on this or any other board. It is as though my thoughts and feelings of the last 6 months were summed up in your most eloquent words...thanks for the insight.<P>Lisa<P>

soon2b_alone,<P>Not taking anything away from rjs here , but I believe that the passage he refers to comes from the book "Love Must Be Tough" by Dobson. I think?? I bought that book about 9 months ago and it has some good points. Ordered it through Amazon.com.<P>Not trying to steal your thunder rjs, I just believe in that excerpt a lot and wished I had read them before my wife moved out. The whole book is worth the read as well <P>Mike

wow rjs you really are good. You seemed to have described me. I am very clingy and begging my hubby all the time. begging for love doesnt work. If it works for pity do you really want it? I have realized today that I have to let him go, as hard as it may seem. he said he is not in love with me or anyone else and there is not much i can do about that except maybe hope that he will fall back in love with me. I have experienced first hand with the crying and begging and all i got was my heart broken. We need to get some respect for ourselves and then maybe others will too. I am new here so dont take to heart too much of what i say, it is only my opinion. thanks

Mike you didnt offend me. It was just a thing my sister emailed me I have no idea where it came from.<P>It really touched me and wanted to share it with others. Sorry I cant take the credit and have no intention of.<P>Just wanted to help

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rjs:<BR><B>Mike you didnt offend me. It was just a thing my sister emailed me I have no idea where it came from.<P>It really touched me and wanted to share it with others. Sorry I cant take the credit and have no intention of.<P>Just wanted to help</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>rjs,<P>You may want to get a hold of the whole book. It really had a different way of looking at things. Most of it was based upon the excerpt you wrote here (which I think is excellent). We often here of "tough love" when dealing with our children, but when you apply the theory to WS's, it has some interesting effects.<BR> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0849916410/qid=979147347/sr=1-11/ref=sc_b_11/104-3150636-2923903" TARGET=_blank>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0849916410/qid=979147347/sr=1-11/ref=sc_b_11/104-3150636-2923903</A> <P>But thanks for sharing it here - I hadn't picked up that book in about 8 months and it was a nice refresher to read the excerpt. Helped me remember some things I learned from it.<P>Mike<P><p>[This message has been edited by SoTired2000 (edited January 10, 2001).]

rjs...<BR>Thank you so much for sharing that information with me. After I read it this morning, I went to work feeling refreshed and at peace for the first time in a long time. As hard as it is, I know I need to let go and the passage you shared gave me tremendous insight into my situation.<BR>Good luck to all struggling with the same issues. <BR>God Bless.