I am 28 and have been married for 2.5 years. My wife and I dated for 5 years before we were married. About 5 weeks ago my wife told me that she was unhappy and needed space. This was a total shock to me. I always thought that we had a wonderful marriage. On dec 24 my wife suggested that I find someone else. On Dec 26 she met with her atty to draw up divorce papers. During the past 5 weeks I have told my wife that I would do anything to save our marriage but she doesnt want to even try. I have talked with a pastor, and read books and found that I have failed in meeting the emotional needs of my wife. I have asked her for an opportunity to change and be the husband that she wants but she will not try. We do not have any children and her mother is supporting her in her decision for having a divorce. Her mother said that if you dont feel anything for me then she should leave. How can I get my wife to give our marriage just one opportunity before we end it in divorce?? She said that she loves me like a family member and not a husband. I believe that if we try she can find a desire to be with me. We have never had financial troubles or infidelity in our marriage. I believe that my lack of devotion to her and my concentration on my career caused this. I have regained my focus on my marriage but i feel it may be to late. If only she had told me eariler before she lost her love for me......Any words or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Welcome <B>have hope</B>...<P>There is a post of general welcome I wish to share with you... <P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000553.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A><P><B>About your post</B>...<P>Do start on a <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>...<BR>Check out my post <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000176.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A - 101 (2nd ed.)</A>.<P>You may be right... in that seh just wants to walk away...<P>To give yourself a chance to survive...<BR>...even if she does leave you...<BR>...Plan A!<P>BTW: Don't rule out either...<BR>1. some form of infidelity (hidden from you)<BR>2. some form of addiction<BR>3. an MLC<P> <P>Jim

Everyone here who reads your message will feel for you and know well at least some of your pain. While we don't have prescriptions for getting your marriage back together (mainly some good ideas of what *won't* help [it will not be clear that anything *will* help unless and until something actually *does*]), we can talk to you about you, and about what you can do to help yourself come to terms with what has happened. Doing that successfully gives you the best chance of getting back together with her, or being in good shape to live the rest of your life, whether alone for now or with someone new.<P>There's plenty of things you can do to try to *push* or *pull* her back to you. Nothing seems to work. What *might* work is *not* trying to block her intentions, *not* showing *her* anything but whatever you decide will send her the correct messages to change *her* heart, and *not* focusing exclusively on getting her back or mourning her loss. <P>Whatever she was missing in your marriage, now is not the time to turn it on as from a firehose. It will exhaust you, and she won't buy it--or worse, she will always demand it at that level henceforth. Now is the time to begin letting go just a little, and time to admit that there are a range of possibilities with respect to how your relationship turns out, and say to yourself that any of them where you have acted honorably (meaning we leave out any possibilities involving extreme behavior on your part) are outcomes you can live with.<P>Others will have ideas you can use as well. Welcome here. Relax. It's going to be OK.

THE DYNAMICS OF MARITAL DISINTEGRATION<BR> <A HREF="http://clearinghouse.mwsc.edu/manuscripts/61.asp" TARGET=_blank>http://clearinghouse.mwsc.edu/manuscripts/61.asp</A> <P>Also, the book "Sudden Endings".

Have hope,<P>This message was just posted under another topic by rjs, but I feel it may apply to your situation as well. I believe it is from a book called "Love Must Be Tough" by Dobsin?<P>--------------------------------------------<BR>The standard approach to marriage counselling is to teach husbands and wives how to revitalise unhealthy relationships and help them work through their conflicts. Unfortunately, such advice assumes that both parties are equally motivated to work on their problems. That is rarely the case. Typically, when a marriage is unravelling, there is one partner who is less concerned about the prospect of divorce, while the other is terrified by it. At its worse, as in cases of infidelity, the drifting member often has little desire to engage in counselling, except perhaps as a pretence to lessen guilt or criticism. He or she may have decided already that the relationship is over. <BR>It has been my observation that the way the committed partner responds at that vital juncture will determine whether the marriage will survive or succumb. I'll explain why in a moment. <P>Only those who have been rejected by a beloved spouse can fully comprehend the tidal wave of pain that crashes into one's life when a relationship ends. Nothing else matters. There are no consoling thoughts. The future is without interest or hope. Emotions swing wildly from despair to acceptance and back again. Nothing in human experience can compare with the agony of knowing that the person to whom you pledged eternal devotion has betrayed your trust and is now involved in sexual intimacies with a "stranger” . . . a competitor . . . a more beautiful or handsome playmate. Death itself would be easier to tolerate than being tossed aside like an old shoe. If one word must be selected to describe the entire experience, it would be something equivalent to panic. Just as a drowning person exhausts himself or herself in a desperate attempt to grasp anything that floats, a rejected partner typically tries to grab and hold the one who is leaving. This panic then leads to appeasement, which destroys what is left of the marriage. <P>Let's look for a moment at the other half of the relationship-focusing on the individual who wants out of the marriage. What secrets lie deep within the mind of the woman who has an affair with her boss, or the man who chases the office flirt? Surprising to some, the desire for sex is not the primary motivator in such situations. Something much more basic is operating below the surface. Long before any decision is made to "fool around" or walk out on a partner, a fundamental change has begun to occur in the relationship. Many books on this subject lay the blame on the failure to communicate, but I disagree. The inability to talk to one another is a symptom of a deeper problem, but it is not the cause itself. <BR>The critical element is the way a husband or wife begins to devalue the other and their lives together. It is a subtle thing at first, often occurring without either partner being aware of the slippage. But as time passes, one individual begins to feel trapped in a relationship with someone he or she no longer respects. <BR>Now we begin to see why grovelling, crying and pleading by a panic-stricken partner tend to drive the claustrophobic partner even farther away. The more he or she struggles to gain a measure of freedom (or even secure a little breathing room), the more desperately the rejected spouse attempts to hang on. Perhaps it is now apparent where the present line of reasoning is leading us. If there is hope for dying marriages, and I certainly believe there is, then it is likely to be found in the reconstruction of respect between warring husbands and wives. That requires the vulnerable spouse to open the cage door and let the trapped partner out! All the techniques of containment must end immediately, including manipulative grief, anger, guilt and appeasement. Begging, pleading, crying, hand-wringing and playing the role of the doormat are equally destructive. There may be a time and place for strong feelings to be expressed, and there may be an occasion for quiet tolerance. But these responses must not be used as persuasive devices to hold the drifting partner against his or her will. <P>To the reader who is desperately in need of this advice, please pay close attention at this point: I'm sure you would not have dreamed of using these coercive methods to convince your husband or wife to marry you during your dating days. You had to lure, attract, charm and encourage him or her. This subtle game of courtship had to take place one delicate step at a time. Obviously, it would not have been successful if you had wept violently and hung on the neck of your lover saying, "I think I'll die if you don't marry me! My entire life amounts to nothing without you. Please! Oh, please, don't turn me down," etc. Coercing and manipulating a potential marriage partner is like high-pressure tactics by a used car salesman. What do you think he would accomplish by telling a potential customer through his tears, "Oh, please, buy this car! I need the money so badly and I've only had two sales so far this week. If you turn me down, I think I'll go straight out and kill myself!" <P>This is a ridiculous analogy, of course, but there is applicability to it. When one has fallen in love with an eligible partner, he attempts to "sell himself" to the other. But like the salesman, he must not deprive the buyer of free choice in the matter. Instead, he must convince the customer that the purchase is in his own interest. If a person would not buy an automobile to ease the pain of a salesman, how much more unlikely is he to devote his entire being to someone he doesn't love, simply for benevolent reasons? None of us is that unselfish. <P>Ideally, we are permitted by God to select only one person in the course of a lifetime, and few are willing to squander that one shot on someone we merely pity! In fact, it is very difficult to love another person romantically and pity him or her at the same time. If begging and pleading are ineffective methods of attracting a member of the opposite sex during the dating days, why do victims of bad marriages use the same grovelling techniques to hold a drifting spouse? They only increase the depth of disrespect by the one who is escaping. Instead, they should convey their own version of the following message when the time is right: "John [or Diane], I've been through some very tough moments since you decided to leave, as you know. My love for you is so profound that I just couldn't face the possibility of life without you. To a person like me, who expected to marry only once and to remain committed for life, it is a severe shock to see our relationship begin to unravel. Nevertheless, I have done some intense soul-searching, and I now realise that I have been attempting to hold you against your will. That simply can't be done. As I reflect on our courtship and early years together, I'm reminded that you married me of your own free choice. I did not blackmail you or twist your arm or offer you a bribe. It was a decision you made without pressure from me. Now you say you want out of the marriage, and obviously, I have to let you go. I'm aware that I can no more force you to stay today than I could have made you marry me in 1989 [or whenever]. You are free to go. If you never call me again, then I will accept your decision. I admit that this entire experience has been painful, but I'm going to make it. The Lord has been with me thus far and He'll go with me in the future. You and I had some wonderful times together, John. You were my first real love and I'll never forget the memories that we shared. I will pray for you and trust that God will guide you in the years ahead." <P><BR>Slowly, unbelievably, the trapped spouse witnesses the cage door vibrate just a bit, and then start to rise. He can't believe it. This person to whom he has felt bound hand and foot for years has now set him free! It isn't necessary to fight off her advances-her grasping hands-any more. "But there must be a catch," he thinks. "It's too good to be true. Talk is cheap. This is just another trick to win me back. In a week or two she'll be crying on the phone again, begging me to come home. She's really weak, you know, and she'll crack under pressure." <P>It is my strongest recommendation that you, the rejected person, prove your partner wrong in this expectation. Let him marvel at your self-control in coming weeks. Only the passage of time will convince him that you are serious-that he is actually free. He may even test you during this period by expressions of great hostility or insult, or by flirtation with others. But one thing is certain: He will be watching for signs of weakness or strength. The vestiges of respect hang in the balance. <P>If the more vulnerable spouse passes the initial test and convinces the partner that his freedom is secure, some interesting changes begin to occur in their relationship. Please understand that every situation is unique and I am merely describing typical reactions, but these developments are extremely common in families I have seen. Most of the exceptions represent variations on the same theme. <P>Three distinct consequences can be anticipated when a previously "grabby" lover begins to let go of the cool spouse: The trapped partner no longer feels it necessary to fight off the other, and their relationship improves. It is not that the love affair is rekindled, necessarily, but the strain between the two partners is often eased. As the cool spouse begins to feel free again, the question he has been asking himself changes. After wondering for weeks or months, "How can I get out of this mess?" he now asks, "Do I really want to go?" Just knowing that he can have his way often makes him less anxious to achieve it. Sometimes it turns him around 180 degrees and brings him back home! The third change occurs not in the mind of the cool spouse but in the mind of the vulnerable one. Incredibly, he or she feels better somehow more in control of the situation. There is no greater agony than journeying through a vale of tears, waiting in vain for the phone to ring or for a miracle to occur. Instead, the person has begun to respect himself or herself and to receive small evidences of respect in return. <P>Even though it is difficult to let go once and for all, there are ample rewards for doing so. One of those advantages involves the feeling that he or she has a plan-a program-a definite course of action to follow. That is infinitely more comfortable than experiencing the utter despair of powerlessness that the victim felt before. And little by little, the healing process begins.

I want to thank you all for your words and encouragement. I took the suggestion from SoTired2000 and sat down with my wife last night and told her that i was letting go. I told her that i would no longer beg for an opportunity to try to work this out. I told her that as hard as it was to see her go I would let her go. She is planning on moving out of the house Monday and into an apartment. The divorce papers are being drawn up now by her atty. She is planning on boxing up her stuff this weekend. Should I stay around the house this weekend as she packs or should I just leave for the weekend??

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by have hope:<BR><B>She is planning on boxing up her stuff this weekend. Should I stay around the house this weekend as she packs or should I just leave for the weekend??</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>NO - if you won't help, or will do anything that will upset her or make it *harder* for her right now to do what she thinks she needs to do; or if you will show upset yourself. <P>YES - if you can bite your tongue, control your facial expressions, and act as simply a *friend* in helping her pack and move.<P>I'm thinking the former is much more probable, but the latter (while requiring a zenlike self-control) would be a powerful memory at total odds with the image she has of you right now.<BR>

I have offered to help her move and she said it wasn't necessary. She is using my truck to make the move. I would love and can help her move like a friend. I feel that we only have 4 more days together and while it would be hard to see her pack, I still would like to be around her all I can.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by have hope:<BR><B>I have offered to help her move and she said it wasn't necessary. ... I feel that we only have 4 more days together and while it would be hard to see her pack, I still would like to be around her all I can.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You need to ascertain whether she's merely trying to be considerate of you, or whether she thinks you would be *imposing* your presence on her. That will tell you whether you should stay and help or not.<P>

have hope,<P>My opinion here: Don't be there. First realize how hard it is going to be on you watching things you both own walk out your front door, and the memories along with them. But more than that think that if you are not there, your wife is going to be a little more open to expressing her feelings. There is no doubt in my mind that she will be sad. But if you are there, she will do everything in her power to suppress those feelings inside. Without you there, and hopefully she'll be alone, she will be able to let the feelings and emotions come out. She needs to start remembering the good times you both once had together if there is any hope for reconciliation. This may be a first step in that process.<P>God Bless.<BR>Mike

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoTired2000:<BR><B>My opinion here: Don't be there. ... Without you there, and hopefully she'll be alone, she will be able to let the feelings and emotions come out. She needs to start remembering the good times you both once had together if there is any hope for reconciliation.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm not sure I agree on the latter rationale ... <B><I>have hope</I></B> would have the opportunity to <I>bring up</I> memories. BUT ... I am so close to outright saying *don't be there* that it's not even funny. The whole episode will be fraught with such relationship peril if he's there that the potential for benefits if he's capable of an Oscar-winning performance are probably outweighed by the near-certainty that she will lovebust at some point in a way that will start an ugly snowball effect.<P>However, only *they* can make this decision together ... and if she really wants him there (despite her protestations) and he's not sensitive enought to realize it or stand-up enough to do it, it's yet another disappointment nail in the marital coffin.

If control is an issue in your marriage at all - I would advise against being there or helping in anyway. She will only see it as one more attempt by you to control a situation in which she has declared her own control (I am moving out and this marriage is over).<P>This was a hot button issue in my marriage - and when my stbx first announced he was moving out, I did the same thing - offering to help (to show my support of his need to be alone for a while, not support of divorce). He took it as me trying to control him and the situation and resented my every offer and my very presence. My INTENTIONS were not about control but his foggy translation of my actions put them in that category anyway. A definite no-win.<P>Lisa

I have the same dilemma...do you help or not...I kinda have decided not to decide until the time. I have tossed both scenario's around...but really...I won't know until the second before it happens if I can do it...and I have decided that if I can't who cares...so what. If I do feel like helping...and no risk of breaking down...then I will help...of course all this with the premise if he wants me to or not. I have no desire to fight/argue any longer about things like this...nor am I going to do the work...offer an easy way out. <BR>my suggestion is wait to decide. But know your options before the moment arrives.

When I got home last night my wife had the papers ready. She signed and had hers notorized that afternoon. She got mad with me because I told her I was going to have a lawyer look at them for me before I signed. She said that was stupid because everything was to remain mine except one car and home furnishings. She said that if I didnt sign she would have a sheriff serve me the papers. She is packing this weekend and moving Monday. I decided not to be around until after she is done and out. I talked with her and told her that this divorce was happening to fast and that we have not given it one chance to work things out. I told her that I think one day she is going to look back and wish that we had tried one time (does anyone agree???). She said that she knows that she doesnt love me and doesnt feel that she ever can (she even said she wasn't sure she ever really loved me). All these things are so hard to hear and handle but at this point I am giving up and hoping time will pass quickly and the healing process comes quickly.

How dare she ask you to sign something that hasn't been seen by a lawyer who knows your situation! She has legal counsel and she expects that you will read and sign something without any understanding as to what might be lurking there? Of course, it does no good to be angry at her; but keep your hide thick when you hear her anger. <P>And who cares if she has a sheriff serve those papers ... if she wants to pay for that, fine and dandy. <P>Now, before the move-out, make sure you have secured any items you don't want her taking. Then scram, and go find something you'll enjoy that's just for you. Jump out of an airplane (hey people ... don't panic ... the first time they don't give you the opportunity to *not* pull your ripcord ... it's attached to the plane!). Whatever you do, make it so engrossing or arduous or excitiing that you forget all about her, at least for a time.<P>Then ... when you get back ... plan to live your life on your own, for yourself, without the limitations that chafed when you were married. And make a pledge to deal with your STBXW as a regular human being, and treat her neither better nor worse than you would treat anyone else--regardless of what she may deserve. <P>And don't be in a hurry to feel any particular way inside. There are things that can speed you along the path you're on now, but what you feel in your heart is going to come and go regardless of how you try to schedule it. <P>Whatever relationship she wants with you ... try to provide it. I know "lets' be friends" hurts like hell. But do it if you can.<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited January 12, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by have hope:<BR><B>....I talked with her and told her that this divorce was happening to fast and that we have not given it one chance to work things out. I told her that I think one day she is going to look back and wish that we had tried one time (does anyone agree???). She said that she knows that she doesnt love me and doesnt feel that she ever can (she even said she wasn't sure she ever really loved me). All these things are so hard to hear and handle but at this point I am giving up and hoping time will pass quickly and the healing process comes quickly.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Have Hope,<P>Unfortunately, so many of us here have heard those exact words "I'm not in love with you" "I'll never love you again" "I never loved you from the start", etc... And they hurt sooo much to hear. But take a minute to try and walk in your spouse's shoes: If you made the painful decision (one that I can't believe someone could make without SOME doubts) to divorce/leave your spouse and you were talking to your spouse, what would you say? <P>"I still am in-love with you but I am confused and don't know what to do so I am leaving" <P>or "I know I loved you when we married, but I don't know why I don't love you anymore - maybe it just got too tough and I can't handle it".<BR>(these are just examples) <P>You need to remember that what you are hearing coming from your spouse's mouth are words, not just designed for you, they are to help her rationalize and defend her decision. It had to be one of the toughest decisions to make. Take what you hear right now with a grain of salt. Know that we have all heard them in the beginning of the separation/divorce, but also know that often many of those words have changed as the process progresses. Even my wife has said since she left, that she did "love me" and she does "love me", but she just can't "trust ", so she isn't "in love" with me anymore. Where as in the beginning it was almost word for word of what you just heard.<P>It is tough - it is a long road ahead, but YOU WILL GET THROUGH IT. Whatever happens with your marriage, you will survive (and know that all of us here pray for your reconciliation). Keep hope, but look for your inner strength. Now is the time you need to show your spouse what you are made of. There will be many "tests" in the next few weeks/months - Try to keep your dignity through them all and you will do fine.<P>Finally, try not to give in to the anger that you may feel. It is only destructive and will end up causing both you and your wife pain. And it may leave you with regrets when this is all over.<P>Keep strong - God Bless.<BR>Mike<BR>