Went out with 3 friends last weekend and started out talking about what qualities we'd each like in a new relationship. We are all in our early 30s but I'm the only one who's been married.<P>Their lists started out with items like: must be breathing and not gay.<P>My list went on and on for a mile.<P>I got married at 19 and have never really been an adult "single" person. This discussion with my friends made me feel like I am probably going to be way to picky to find someone new...gunshy, I guess. Or does experience make us pickier?<P>Anyway, I thought it was kind of funny to see the "been married before" list as compared to the "never been married."<P>Tall, must be tall, I've had 15 years without heels...NO MORE! (That was item number 2 - item number 1 was "monogamy - absolute monogamy")

If I ever do decide to remarry:<P>A good heart<P>takes care of themselves<P>honest<P>gives people the benefit of the doubt<P>generous<P>is serious about commitment and getting to know me.<P>What I won't tolerate:<P>someone who wants a "relationship" but isn't looking for commitment. <P>Someone who wants a sexual relationship and wants a commitment (someday), but just isn't sure if it's with me.<P>someone who thinks love is about feelings<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Tall, must be tall, I've had 15 years without heels...NO MORE! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>that was one of the reasons my ex used for getting rid of me, now really!<P>

I want all the qualities my X wasn't except the looks because my X is hot. He was the definition of tall dark and handsome! To bad he didn't have the brains and the personality to go with his looks. Slap me now I'm getting mean! <P>I want someone who is :<BR>intelligent<BR>unselfish<BR>loving<BR>trusting<BR>money concience<BR>sure of himself<BR>likes to have fun<BR>wants children<P>The list goes on and on<P>

I know exactly what I would like to have in a relationship.<P>Communication<P>Honesty<P>Humor<P>Great self esteem<P>Recreational Companionship<P>Doesn't take life too seriously [but does take the realtionship/Marriage serious]<P>Family commitment[has to love children]<P>Most of all dido for what the Student said,<BR>Doesn't think that love is about feelings!<P>Oh,of course I could go on as well.<P>Gina <P><P>------------------<BR>"If we deny love that is given to us,if we refuse to give love because we fear pain or loss,then our lives will be empty,our loss greater!"-----Anonymous----

He must be smart and like to have intellectual discussions. Sense of humor is a must. He cannot be stuffy or snobby. He must be open minded and accepting of others. He must be my age or older and be settled in a career that is satisfying or rewarding (no students or artists). He must have a good sense of self. He must be consistent and honest with others and himself. He must be patient, caring, attentive, romantic, and assertive. He must enjoy the same things I do (or at least not be threatened by my liking them). He has to be a dog person. He must be family oriented and loyal. I am not sure about whether or not I would prefer a divorcee. To me, one who was "left" might seem more loyal, but that can be deceiving. Also, I might prefer fresh merchandise, not damaged goods. I could not date someone who was unfaithful. He must not be afraid to ask for help (like counseling) if needed. And he must be duty oriented. He must see love as a choice not just an emotion. He has to understand and agree with the position that love can be conditional but the marriage union is forever.

I'm going to turn this around a bit because I would not expect anyone to do for me what I could not do for them. So, here are the qualities I would have in myself before considering a new relationship:<P>Everything I put on the list of requirements, plus a few more...<P>Completely forgive myself for mistakes and bad choices in my marriage and be able to be honest about them<P>Be able to trust other people<P>Have the confidence to believe that another person can love me in spite of my failings<P>Reduce/eliminate shame from my life<P>Have good methods to cope with stress<P>Be able to trust my instincts and experience<P>Have faith in God (or the powers that be) that I can overcome whatever challenges I might face--with or without having my "needs" met by a potential significant other.<P>Be able to have the strength and courage to be loving in spite of not having my needs met or in spite of my feelings at the time.<P><p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited January 10, 2001).]

gsd,<P>If you met a man who met all of your requirements, and you later found out that he had been unfaithful, would you break up with him? Specifically, do you plan on asking him about his faithfulness early on and how would you know for sure if he were telling the truth? <P>Personally, I intend to be honest about my life if I ever decided to pursue a relationship again. The fact that I cannot right now is another reason why I won't date. If they came right out and asked me (especially if it were very early in the process) it is very likely that I would break up with them. The fact that they are asking would give me an indication that past faithfulness was something that was very important to them. If you feel that strongly about it, I guess it is better for you to find out up front. <P>It is very tempting to lie in a situation like the one you present, and given enough time, it would be very unlikely for them to find out since my affair was very brief (less than two weeks), my ex listed "irreconcilable differences" as the reason for the divorce, and he and I had no children. How would you go about finding the real truth, especially with someone who has maybe never been married before? If you did come right out and ask them, how would you know for sure if they were being honest? <p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited January 10, 2001).]

Hmmmmmmm<P>Well, this might be my little particular, but if he takes me hunting and fishing, riding horses, riding dirtbikes, hiking through the woods, bucking bales of hay, gardening, farming--(gosh, I guess that pretty much paints a piture of him right there.) that would be good. . .I'm restless, got to be outside with the guy I love.<P>One thing that I am learning from the marriage that I am recovering from. . .if he's got a temper, he'd better take it out back behind the barn. There will be no yelling and screaming in my future house. That's my other particular.<P>And if he's a good Christian man, with an open mind ready to learn and be taught--well, that's a must. Absolutely. If I have trouble getting him to church, well, that's a man for ya. . .I'll try not to gripe too much while I do it<P>If he's got an eager smile and laughing eyes, well that's a must too. Whether he's quiet or rowdy, he's got to at least have a twinkle in his eye. (If he's around my age, he will probably have little smile wrinkles, gotta have those!)<P>If he throws his arm around me or grabs me and kisses me out of the blue every now and then, just every now and then, cuddles on the couch with me, well. . .that's another must. Love must fill the home!<P>For me, conversation is not really a must--just as long as he can share his thoughts and I can feel free to share mine, and we can talk about things that need to get done and rationally point out the little discrepancies in life without getting into a debate (I hate debating, not even intellectual ones--another particular!) then I am good. As long as I can see love in his eyes and feel his hand on mine--then I don't need to talk all that much.<P>If he can tolerate my subtle sense of humor (the one bad thing that I inherited from my dad) then it would be good. I am sarcastic, sorry. I am trying to train myself to be otherwise, but in the meantime, he's got to have patience!<P>Oh, and he's got to love my kids. . .I would be prepared to love his, too. This step-parent thing is a huge pain in the butt all around, but I know that it can be rewarding and happy, too. We will have to summon the strength to cope together.<P>I know that he will probably have a "past." (ie, former marriage, ie rough childhood.) Well, okay, if he's an ax murderer, that might tell me something. But if I have no doubts that he has a new life and a new outlook, then we only have the future to look forward to.<P>And. . .if he's a cutie (wrangler butts drive me nuts) that would help. But then beauty shows up the more in love you are with a person.<P>And that's it. I will take love where I find it. There are so many good and interesting qualities in so many, who's to say who you'll meet that you'll click with and enjoy getting to know?<P>It's the part that comes afterwards--growing together to be two people who share the same interests and objectives.<P>If, someday, I find faults that I can deal with, then I will tolerate them. If I find faults that really bug me (messy house! ugh!) then I will gently and lovingly try to negotiate and compromise with him. As I would hope that he would do with my faults.<P>And if love ever starts to wither, (as happens to an extent in all relationships, I won't kid myself this time) I will certainly take the measures to fire it up again. It's my responsibility as a marriage partner (marriage is not 50-50, it's a 100-100--you have to be ready and willing to give your 100 percent when your partner can't give his.)<P>The key is, I think, prepare to be the best spouse you can (as I am prepared to be a wonderful wife to the next lucky guy that takes me on.) and expect the best from the one that God has lead you to.<P>Oh, yeah, God. It's probably a good thing to keep God in mind when considering a new relationship--are you following His commandments? Is your new friend/potential partner following his commandments? Can you talk to God about forming a relationship with this new person and get a good feeling about it?<P>That's when you know that is the one.<P>So, are my expectations totally outrageous and unrealistic? Am I a "romantic?"<p>[This message has been edited by Bernzini (edited January 10, 2001).]

1. She must be committed to our relationship.<P>2. She must be willing to work on our relationship.<P>3. She must have been previously married to me.<BR>

Hi GDP,<P>I'm totally in favor of your list. I've been celibate going on two years now. At first, it was kind of like doing penance, but now it is something I rather enjoy. I mean, I don't enjoy being divorced. But given the alternatives, it is a rather peaceful place to be. <P>You mentioned before that you felt like you are married for life. Does that include celibacy or just that you won't be making that "till death do you part" promise to anyone else? I'm not trying to get you to go my way (ie celibacy) but it can be hard at first,especially after being used to sharing your bed every night with one person. If you are interested in hearing about some coping strategies (besides the obvious) I'll be happy to talk about it.

It makes no difference what qualities they have, because you could wake up tomorrow and they would all be gone. My H was a devoted family man, hardworking but certainly not a workaholic, dependable; we shared numerous goals and ideals with respect to child-raising and many other things, including the importance of agriculture in our lives, our children's lives, and for the community. Virtually overnight all that was gone completely. Once you eliminate known felons and drug dealers, you might as well pick a partner at random. <p>[This message has been edited by Nellie1 (edited January 10, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheStudent:<BR><B>Hi GDP,<P>I'm totally in favor of your list. I've been celibate going on two years now. At first, it was kind of like doing penance, but now it is something I rather enjoy. I mean, I don't enjoy being divorced. But given the alternatives, it is a rather peaceful place to be. <P>You mentioned before that you felt like you are married for life. Does that include celibacy or just that you won't be making that "till death do you part" promise to anyone else? I'm not trying to get you to go my way (ie celibacy) but it can be hard at first,especially after being used to sharing your bed every night with one person. If you are interested in hearing about some coping strategies (besides the obvious) I'll be happy to talk about it.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Once you have experienced sexual intimacy with the one to whom you have fully opened yourself emotionally and spiritually, the one to whom you have given your heart, I don't understand how any other kind of sex could be anything but a pale imitation. What would be the point?<P>Call me a romantic, but that's how I feel.<P>Furthermore, for religious, moral, and psychological reasons, I believe that sex outside of marriage is harmful and wrong. And as far as I am concerned, my vows of fidelity to my wife still stand, regardless of my legal status.<P>I am a pretty independent person, and I can be comfortable living alone. The prospect of living the rest of my life alone and celibate does not frighten me, and I already have more memories to treasure than many people manage to accumulate in a lifetime.<P>I don't <I>need</I> a surrogate for my wife, and I don't need to replace her. I <I>do</I> need self-respect, and for that I need to believe in my own moral integrity.<BR>

GDP,<BR>The only reason why I asked the question is because there are lots of people who say they never want to remarry, but intend to have relationships that involve sex.<P>Being celibate did scare me at first. It was very hard for me. The thought of never being held like "that" again was pretty terrifying. However, once I realized, like you, that what I was missing was not the physical, then it became very easy to let go of the "act" of sex. <P>Like you, I feel like I had a bond with my ex H that will never go away. You might have picked up from some of my posts that I cheated on my H, and that is true. That experience provided even more clarity into this decision. What was lacking in my soul was not something someone else could fill. Perhaps not even my ex H. However, he was the person I committed to for life and he is the ONLY person I've made that commitment to. <P>I try not to talk about my celibacy much here because people get the wrong ideas. They assume I didn't like sex before I was divorced (wrong, my ex said that is one thing he'd miss most about me). They assume I'm punishing myself now, which is also not true. <P>Anyway, I just wanted to say that I respect your choice very much.

Student;<P>Good question. I suppose that anyone could lie about it, and I suppose that someone else might consider me the infidel because I got involved with someone before my divorce was final. <P>I guess you never know some things. When my ex and I first got together, he professed the idea that marriage is forever regardless. The vow till death do us part was literal, and nothing would separate us. We went through some crises that "proved" to me that he believed this, and I did not doubt his sincerity. I think he believed it then, too. Everything pointed to the perpetuity of our union. Unfortunately, we had not experienced everything that life had thrown at us. I don't think there is ever just one indicator of potential failure in this area. I wish there was. So in answer to your question, I would not break it off, but I would remain cautious and it would depend on the level of intimacy we had acheived.

A Bernzini,, I'm working on the Butt working out every other day and would love to have a barn. I've got about everything else on your list. I would have to say excellant post. I want to turn the words around because I couldn't add anything to your list. All I would need to do is change guy to gals and I'm done. <P>With words like this I have hope.. <P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bernzini:<BR><B>Hmmmmmmm<P>Well, this might be my little particular, but if he takes me hunting and fishing, riding horses, riding dirtbikes, hiking through the woods, bucking bales of hay, gardening, farming--(gosh, I guess that pretty much paints a piture of him right there.) that would be good. . .I'm restless, got to be outside with the guy I love.<P>One thing that I am learning from the marriage that I am recovering from. . .if he's got a temper, he'd better take it out back behind the barn. There will be no yelling and screaming in my future house. That's my other particular.<P>And if he's a good Christian man, with an open mind ready to learn and be taught--well, that's a must. Absolutely. If I have trouble getting him to church, well, that's a man for ya. . .I'll try not to gripe too much while I do it<P>If he's got an eager smile and laughing eyes, well that's a must too. Whether he's quiet or rowdy, he's got to at least have a twinkle in his eye. (If he's around my age, he will probably have little smile wrinkles, gotta have those!)<P>If he throws his arm around me or grabs me and kisses me out of the blue every now and then, just every now and then, cuddles on the couch with me, well. . .that's another must. Love must fill the home!<P>For me, conversation is not really a must--just as long as he can share his thoughts and I can feel free to share mine, and we can talk about things that need to get done and rationally point out the little discrepancies in life without getting into a debate (I hate debating, not even intellectual ones--another particular!) then I am good. As long as I can see love in his eyes and feel his hand on mine--then I don't need to talk all that much.<P>If he can tolerate my subtle sense of humor (the one bad thing that I inherited from my dad) then it would be good. I am sarcastic, sorry. I am trying to train myself to be otherwise, but in the meantime, he's got to have patience!<P>Oh, and he's got to love my kids. . .I would be prepared to love his, too. This step-parent thing is a huge pain in the butt all around, but I know that it can be rewarding and happy, too. We will have to summon the strength to cope together.<P>I know that he will probably have a "past." (ie, former marriage, ie rough childhood.) Well, okay, if he's an ax murderer, that might tell me something. But if I have no doubts that he has a new life and a new outlook, then we only have the future to look forward to.<P>And. . .if he's a cutie (wrangler butts drive me nuts) that would help. But then beauty shows up the more in love you are with a person.<P>And that's it. I will take love where I find it. There are so many good and interesting qualities in so many, who's to say who you'll meet that you'll click with and enjoy getting to know?<P>It's the part that comes afterwards--growing together to be two people who share the same interests and objectives.<P>If, someday, I find faults that I can deal with, then I will tolerate them. If I find faults that really bug me (messy house! ugh!) then I will gently and lovingly try to negotiate and compromise with him. As I would hope that he would do with my faults.<P>And if love ever starts to wither, (as happens to an extent in all relationships, I won't kid myself this time) I will certainly take the measures to fire it up again. It's my responsibility as a marriage partner (marriage is not 50-50, it's a 100-100--you have to be ready and willing to give your 100 percent when your partner can't give his.)<P>The key is, I think, prepare to be the best spouse you can (as I am prepared to be a wonderful wife to the next lucky guy that takes me on.) and expect the best from the one that God has lead you to.<P>Oh, yeah, God. It's probably a good thing to keep God in mind when considering a new relationship--are you following His commandments? Is your new friend/potential partner following his commandments? Can you talk to God about forming a relationship with this new person and get a good feeling about it?<P>That's when you know that is the one.<P>So, are my expectations totally outrageous and unrealistic? Am I a "romantic?"<P>[This message has been edited by Bernzini (edited January 10, 2001).]</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

gsd,<BR>"Unfortunately, we had not experienced everything that life had thrown at us. I don't think there is ever just one indicator of potential failure in this area. I wish there was."<P>Boy, me too. My ex and I saw each other only on weekends for TWO YEARS prior to getting married. We lived a 3-4 hr drive apart from each other. Whodda guessed that our little 4 month separation when I came up here to go to school would end up like it did? With me having a PA and him having an EA (he still denies having a PA). <P>After our courtship experience, I had the utmost confidence that this would not be a problem. <P>I know we can't predict everything. It is nice to try and knock some of the biggies off the list of potential risks though, huh? I understand why you wouldn't want to date someone who had cheated. Guess what? Me either, and I HAVE cheated. Mostly because I've never personally met an adulterer who was as remorseful as I was and tried as hard as I did to save my marriage. There are two people on this board that I can name. If you think about the vast number of OW/OM out there (one for every BS here) who hasn't visited this board, you get the idea.

Student and GDP (love your moniker!!!)<P>I'm glad to see that I am not the only one who has embraced celibacy without apology. I, too, still feel the bond I shared with my H during our almost 20 years together (17 married), and still don't feel that I will be able to feel comfortable with another man sexually again. I, too, considered myself married for life and was totally committed to my marriage, only to have my H walk away without a backward glance. I have been celibate for almost five years now, and have accepted that I may never again have a sexual relationship. Again, it is not sex, per se that I miss, but having a relationship with the man that I love(d) and committed to sharing the rest of my life with. I am not totally closed to the idea of another marriage or relationship, but I intend to be cautious. If someone exceptional (loving, honest, loyal, intelligent, among other things) comes into my life, I will take it from there. But, I am not out there searching for "a relationship".<p>[This message has been edited by Lady M (edited January 11, 2001).]

The older I grow the more evident it becomes: a healthy, beautiful sexual relationship is between husband and wife only, who are committed to keeping their vows to love each other forever. Anything else is conterfeit, sorry if I offend anyone, but what's the point of sex otherwise except to get happy for about 10-20 minutes? It's like a drug, a stiff drink, a roller-coaster ride: TEMPORARY. And temporary is not what life is about.<P>So what's the debate with remaining celebate between marriages? It's an absolute must, pure and simple. Sure, it hurts a little, I will be the first to admit, but what the heck, my body is NOT in control of my soul.<P>Look at it this way; you intend to marry again--wouldn't you want to show the person that you are waiting to meet how much you love them and are faithful to them EVEN BEFORE YOU KNOW THEM? I sure do.<P>It's not even getting that difficult anymore. I feel very clean and purified, and it's a good feeling. I intend to take this feeling to the marriage bed, if and when it ever happens again.

I put sexual fulfillment right up at the top of my emotional needs list. But I still think sex is vastly overrated in our society, while intimacy is vastly underrated.<BR>