It looks like my W, who said she was going to move out and start the divorce process after the holidays, is making a move on at least one front.<P>She has been looking at houses to buy, and has already made one offer. However, all of a sudden she keeps saying that she just wants to separate, that for all she knows the separation will show her that this is the wrong thing to do, and she may move back in.<P>Regardless, I am realizing that she is now making decisions that affect me as well, especially financially, given that we live in a community property state. E.g. if she buys a house and then screws things up, it'll affect me as well. So I started looking for ways to protect myself, and it seems like a legal separation agreement is the way to do it.<P>Anyone have any leads for DIY separation agreements, or is it strictly an attorney-assisted thing? I'm not worried about little things, and I do think we can work out the details ourselves. I'm just worried that she will do something stupid (in line with her actions for the last 8 months) and big, and I will be stuck with the consequences. How did the rest of you handle things during separation?<P>Thanks,<P>AGG

Good guy,<P>You don't say what state you're in, but I live in Washington which also is a community property state. Legal Separations can be done without a lawyer just like divorces. In my state you can download every form you need even.<P>A legal separation basically puts a date stamp on your joint liability versus separate liabilities...exactly what you need in this situation. My advice, however, would be to suggest she not buy if she's unsure of what she wants. Can't she find the same independence in a rented house? If you were to reconcile, you would be stuck with a second house to have to dispose of otherwise.<P>Either way, get yourself legally separated to protect both of your financial liabilities and to put custody, child support/spousal support into a legel precedent while you work on the rest of your marriage - it is in both of your best interests.<P>Lisa

I would suggest contacting your state bar association and asking for anything in the way of pamphlets, etc. they have on the subject. <P>If she's on the fence, why don't you suggest that she *rent* a place first. Look, I'm going to be Machiavellian here. If she rents, the neighborhood will likely be not as good, she won't feel as attached to the place (won't feel able to paint the walls, make it really "homey"), the class of people she sees around her will be lower and more transient; in general, it won't be as nice an experience. She may want to come back after a taste of that.<P>Plus, you may not need to be as hard-charging on the separation agreement if she rents. <P>See if that flies with her. I hope so.

start with a personal lawyer to warn you of the potential hazardous the impulsive one might not realize she is dong.<P>then try mediation, to iron out the agreement in divorce framework, so that the divorce agreement will stem from that.<P>that was my plan, and so far, no reconciliation, but a push for Plan D.<P>sorry to hear about the bad weather in your house. BTW, do I know you from some other name?<P>tom<BR>

Thanks for the responses so far. <P>We live in CA, and I'll try to see if they have something online.<P>As far as renting, well, yeah, any normal person would do that first... But she is "too busy" to look for rentals...Why do you think I made the "stupid actions" comment in my original post? <P>I know that the reality of a separated situation will hit her like a pile of bricks, since she really can't handle our kids for more than 2 hours at a time, much less in a 50/50 arrangement. And of course she won't be able to put in the work hours that she is used to putting in. However, I suspect that she is the kind of person who will use the new difficulties as way to blame me for doing this to her...<P>And Tom, yeah, you do know me from before...I'll e-mail you.<P>AGG

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AGoodGuy:<BR><B>As far as renting, well, yeah, any normal person would do that first... But she is "too busy" to look for rentals...Why do you think I made the "stupid actions" comment in my original post? <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>OK, two quick things: characteriziing *any* action of hers as "stupid" is part of what is going to have to change if your marriage is going to make it. Sorry about that. She's following her own logic, however twisted it may be. Respect for it (and her) is the only thing you can safely show now. If you practice it internally as well as externally, you're less likely to slip and get caught by her.<P>Two: I don't know if your *helping* her get a rental place would be taken by her as a positive contribution on your part. If so, by all means do it, and do it well. I can see a whole host of things that it will convey to her about you and your attitude. If there are a few downsides to the place you pick that she won't catch until later...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus:<BR><B> OK, two quick things: characteriziing *any* action of hers as "stupid" is part of what is going to have to change if your marriage is going to make it.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Okay, I'm sorry, a bit of my sarcasm slipped through. Believe me, I told her I am fully supportive of her actions ("validating"), even though I added that I personally think that we don't have to do this...<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Two: I don't know if your *helping* her get a rental place would be taken by her as a positive contribution on your part.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No, that would be "controlling", and if I found any faults with a place, that would be "judgemental". Sorry, sarcasm again...<P>Actually, this does bring up a good question. What should my attitude be towards this whole thing, if in my heart I truly believe that this is insane? I mentioned telling her that I'm supportive of her actions, even though I don't think that this is the right thing to do. What about acting when she finds a place? Should I share her excitement? Should I help her move? Should I act as if this is all oh so wonderful? Could really use some tips on this.<P>Thanks,<P>AGG<BR><p>[This message has been edited by AGoodGuy (edited January 09, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AGoodGuy:<BR><B> No, that would be "controlling", and if I found any faults with a place, that would be "judgemental". Sorry, sarcasm again...<P>Actually, this does bring up a good question. What should my attitude be towards this whole thing, if in my heart I truly believe that this is insane? I mentioned telling her that I'm supportive of her actions, even though I don't think that this is the right thing to do. What about acting when she finds a place? Should I share her excitement? Should I help her move? Should I act as if this is all oh so wonderful? Could really use some tips on this.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>However hard to take what she is doing may be, it is not "insane" ... it follows its own logic that you cannot see. <P>Maybe you can do things to save her time on the rental side ... prepare a shortlist according to her criteria (perhaps even with comparisons, pros & cons); have all the applications in hand for her, but don't try to make the final decision.<P>You don't have to jump up and down in sharing her excitement, but swallow everything and help out. Yuck. Gives me the willies just to suggest it. I don't know if I could have carried it off ... if you can't, then just keep out of it. I wouldn't suggest it if I didn't think it would help. <P>You are acting here for unspecified future potential rewards, not anything immediate. Don't demand anything immediate. Don't expect anything immediate. It's like you're dealing to a person who is wearing mechanisms that distort every sense, but also has a tape recorder. You know they can't understand you right now, and you look ugly and sound icky, smell bad, etc. But in the future, you have to hope they're gonna play that tape.

AGoodGuy,<P>Do not help her in anyway other than making it a peaceful transition. She needs to know that what she is doing is "her decision" and the consequences of her actions are her own. Be nice, be pleasant but don't help.<P>If she calls you on it, maybe tell her that you love her and want things to work out with the both of you, but you do not believe in what she is doing, nor will you support that decision.<P>Mike

It sucks, big time, and there are so many ways to approach it, and each way has its own method of backfiring. If you're cooperative, you are agreeing, if you are uncooperative, you contribute to her negative feelings. <P>My guess is to be medium cooperative, do what is asked, but no more, and tell her that you are helping her in her quest for her happiness, because you love her. I would start out with something like you don't understand how this will help, but if this is what she has to do, so be it. And wish her well on her journey to find her happiness.<P>Of course, somehow she can twist that in her mind. so no matter what, the best way is to be cooperative, so that her last memories of you are good ones.<P>I could be all wet though, time for bed!<P>tom