I just got off the phone today with my wife. Where to start??? <P>Back when my wife first approached me about divorcing she wanted to handle things ourselves. Her father is an attorney and I think she wanted to avoid problems that he has seen over the years. Unfortunately at that point I was devastated and so hurt beyond words. She approached me so "happy go-lucky" that I took offense to it big-time. I just somehow knew (even though I never have gone through a divorce before) that it would not be a pleasant easy thing to do - emotionally, financially, et...<P>My initial words to her were "you really think this is going to be easy!!". When I said those words I thought I was speaking to the woman I had always known - the woman who knew I would never lie to her or hurt her. Unfortunately this "new" person took it to mean that I was going to get mean and nasty (so out of character for me). The next day she took a defensive position and got a lawyer and things have just progressed from there. She filed back in November - it was a mean and cruel complaint (basically "extreme mental cruelty"). After that I got my attorney, not to attack her, but to protect myself.<P>OK, long story short (yeh right)... We spoke for the first time about 2 weeks before Xmas after I sent her an email asking what she wants from me. She called and we talked for about an hour on the phone. It was the type of conversation we had not had in over a year - we laughed and joked. I stood up for myself where appropriate, but we did not fight or argue once. AFter that she emailed me a list of the items she wanted - nothing spectacular, basically little things here and there. Two items were looming over my head though - the house and a loan we owe her father. <P>In the meantime I received a package from her attorney of about 100 financial questions - a packet that will probably take a good 2 weeks to complete (2 weeks I don't have the time for!).<P>A few days ago she emailed me again asking if I had thought about what she asked for. I replied yesterday saying that as far as the items were concerned, I did not have much of a problem, but I needed to know the money she wants from me - how much? When? Hence the reason for her call... <P>We spoke again like best friends. She had a little "jab" here at my family and I at hers, but nothing big at all. She told me some stories about her family and friends and about what she has been doing. We both commented on the attorneys and the stunts that they are already pulling - sorry if there are any of you out there, but logically speaking I think a lawyer's job is very contradicting in divorce proceedings - they all say that want to get it done and over with as quick as possible, but in reality if that were the case they would be shooting themselves in the foot. It would be like a mechanic saying "the labor to fix your car usually takes 1 hour (knowing he can stretch that to 2 hours), but I will work extrememly hard to make sure it is only 10 minutes!" How many mechanics would work to keep the labor to 10 minutes only when they could be making 2 hours worth of billings?<P>But I digress...<P>I kept pretty quite about what I was up to (not that she even asked). Bottom line is that she is still living with her brother rent-free (but not for much longer - he is being transferred), and she has no steady job. We spoke about the money and she told me the last thing she wanted to do was to force me to sell the house. We actually agreed on a lot of what she wanted / I wanted. I told her I wanted her to change the divorce filing to a "no fault" because no matter how much the current statement is only "legal jargon", it was still offensive to me and made me look like the an alcoholic (so not!) and an [censored]. She agreed that she would do what she could about getting it changed.<P>I so wanted to talk about "us", about trying again, but I didn't. It hurts so much to say this, but she still sounds just so "happy go-lucky". I mean if she sounded a little upset, I know this sounds strange, but it would have made me feel better. It is just so hard believing that 8 years together and she is able to get over it with a snap of her fingers, with no regrets at all.<P>We spoke for about 30 minutes and when I hung up the phone I realized how much I still miss her (we have only talked once/month, if that).<P>For those of you that have "left" your spouse, do you hurt? I mean is there ever the thought of "well if this was different maybe we could try again?". And if you are hurting, how well are you able to hide your feelings to your spouse?<P>Not really sure what I am asking? Just babbling.... I just wish she was hurting like I am.... But I guess if that was the case, we might still be together, or at least talking about a reconciliation...<P>I guess I am just sad <BR>I am torn between wanting to talk to her or not. Our conversations have been good - I just wish they could be more....<P>Mike

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoTired2000:<BR><B>I am torn between wanting to talk to her or not. Our conversations have been good - I just wish they could be more...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Have all the good conversations you can. No lovebusters. No attempt to push an agenda. Just talk. Yes, it will make you more vulnerable. It's Plan A'ing. We have to *hope* it will work.<P>Meanwhile, the divorce should be timely, workmanlike, without any gamesmanship. Even the pleadings being cast to show you in a negative light should not be an issue for you. It *hurts*, but it's what *she* wanted at the time. Let it linger ... it's a stone in her conscience's shoe. You needn't press her to fix it now that you have planted the seed of doubt. Believe me, her attorney will have no interest in amending the complaint at this juncture ... she won't be able to get it done ... and your keeping quiet about it will only add to her discomfort. As long as you don't lovebust from now on, you will be one-up. <P>

Mike, <P>Unfortunately, you and I are in the same boat, in that I also was left, but I wanted to tell you that I know exactly how you feel. It has been almost a year now, and I sure view him differently than I did when this all first started, but I can say that on occasion he'll come over to visit the kids and I just wonder, "How can he just carry on like nothing's wrong? Why doesn't he hurt like I do? Why can he just walk away with no apparent damage?"<P>Of course, my head knows that he's hurt too. But his hurt was done over the years and during the course of our marriage. For me, it was more sudden -- for him, he had gradual onset. He hurt for years and I didn't see it; now I hurt and he doesn't see it. My guess is that it is similar for you and your wife. She may hurt more than she lets you know, and it is probably a lot harder than she shares with you. <P>Hey, my friend, I can't speak for everyone, but I've been here. You miss her. You miss having someone close to you who cares about you. Heck, you miss someone who'll just share a meal with ya! Plus, you know this woman--after 8 years she is familiar and from your point of view, she is someone you have loved. Yup, dude, I've totally been there, and I'd say accept our hugs as we all write back and support and encourage you. Okay?<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Mike}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>You're one of my best friends here on the forum, and I trust your thoughts--this one time, listen to me. You'll be in my thoughts and prayers tonight.<P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Sisyphus & faithful wife,<P>Thanks guys... I am just in such a sad time these past few weeks. Business is not doing well and I have come to learn that "missing her" often gets harder when there are other issues of stress in my life that may have nothing to do with her at all - kind of like "missing her" likes to kick me when I am down.<P>I have always been (or felt like I was) in control of my life - maybe that is part of my problem - too much focus on "control". I can only think that God may be teaching me one of the hardest lessons that I will ever have to learn through all of this mess. Now because of financial pressures (in which I dug my own grave) and the feeling of failure about my marriage, I feel like I am barely holding on to any kind of control. And that is scaring the *ell out of me.<P>I am just so sad lately. I know it will pass, but it still sucks going through it...<P>Thanks for the prayer.<P>Mike

That was one reason why I refused to accept loans and money from the inlaws, unless necessary, which was once.<P>there is too many expectations and emotions tied up with family money, its not worth it.<P>keep money to business, and emotions to family.<P>sorry that you feel this way. Occasionally I get to joke with the X, but then she quickly turns back and frustrates the hell out of me, so I don't get sucked back in. basically, she is turning into her mother/father combo, which is pure ICK!<P>I felt that way for a long time, until i stood back and really looked at what I had, and when it changed, and realized it will never, ever come close to want i deserve. I would have to go backwards, regress for her to like me again, because she is slowly going backwards, slowly shrinking. <P>Is your STBX going forwards, or going backwards in her life growth?<P>tom

Mike,<P>My friend, I have been there too! In fact, I still often wonder how much my ex hurt(s) as a result of everything that has happened. I am still doing my best to remain her friend as I want her to remain my friend as well. I can’t do anything but speak from experience here, but I think you are on the right track. IMHO, if you have made your feelings clear and your wife knows of your desire to reconcile your marriage then reminding her of that is not going to help. Be casual with her, laugh with her, be her friend. If she sees you as being her friend and not an adversary, then you are a step ahead of the game. (BTW, we did request her attorney to make some changes in the documents during the process and she did so without question. Of course it wasn’t free, but what do you expect?) <P>During most divorces, I think both parties hope for the best, but expect the worse. At this point, neither one of you are the same people you were when you got married. You both have changed, and you both have had a chance to look at the world and your lives from a different view. You still appear to be conducting yourself with dignity and self respect. This will not go unnoticed, believe me. IF there is ever a chance of reconciliation, your conduct during this hard time will set the path for your future. And Mike, you are doing great. At this point please keep the following in mind: The marriage you had is over. Right now there are two important things at stake; your happiness and your wife’s happiness. Once both of those are reached, then the thoughts of a future together can be an option.<P>I had the opportunity to have lunch with my ex a few weeks backs. We were able to talk and I even managed to get a laugh or two out of her. It was nice spending time with her and yes, it made me really miss her. She made the comment that she was not ok joking about issues from our marriage, that she was not at a point yet where she felt comfortable with that and was surprised that I was. Truthfully, I use humor during tense/nervous situations and I expected her to recognize that. However, I really was ok making a few jokes and it did make me feel a little better knowing that some things were actually bothering her. After our lunch was over, she was the one who initiated our hug, in fact, she initiated two of them. Not that it was that big of a deal, but it meant something to me nonetheless. It showed me that she still cared. She then called me a few days later because she needed some advice about something and knew that I could help.<P>All this basically amounts to is that we are on the right road to maintaining a friendship. And even though the marriage is over, I don’t want her completely out of my life. If I hadn’t conducted myself as I did during the divorce process, none of this would have been possible. It sounds like you are headed in the same direction. I know it’s hard, I know you hurt and I know it sucks, but just being her friend right now is the best thing for both of you. It shows her that you still love and care about her as a person and as a friend.<P>I’m proud of you, friend. I think you’re doing great!<P>Shawn<BR><P>------------------<BR>“What does not kill me only makes me stronger”<BR> -F. Neitzsche

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Mike}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>Go with it, my friend. I think feeling sad now and then is just part of the process and you need to wade through it. <P>BTW, one business owner to another, there is a certain ebb and flow to business, and there is an up cycle and a down cycle. It's hard to get through the down cycles and keep your esteem and your drive going, but you know as well as I do that you are very good at what you do, that you can make this work, and that an upswing will come. Just keep the faith, keep on moving forward with your business efforts, and it will come.<P>Meanwhile, as you struggle with your sadness, just remember you are not alone. We are all hear thinking of you and praying for you, and I'll pray that God sends special ministering angels to you today. <P>{{{{{Mike}}}}}<P><BR>CJ<P><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoTired2000:<BR><B>It hurts so much to say this, but she still sounds just so "happy go-lucky". I mean if she sounded a little upset, I know this sounds strange, but it would have made me feel better. It is just so hard believing that 8 years together and she is able to get over it with a snap of her fingers, with no regrets at all.<P>For those of you that have "left" your spouse, do you hurt? I mean is there ever the thought of "well if this was different maybe we could try again?". And if you are hurting, how well are you able to hide your feelings to your spouse?<P>Not really sure what I am asking? Just babbling.... I just wish she was hurting like I am.... <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yeah, I had a similar reaction to my wife's apparent ability to throw away a loving relationship without a trace of regret. How could a sweet, sensitive person like her be capable of that?<P>But then I realized what she had to do to herself in order to maintain that apparent tranquility. The pieces of herself that she had to bury. The lies she had to tell herself.<P>Your wife is probably not hiding her hurt from you. She is hiding it from herself. The price she pays for that will be high, and the longer it takes her to discover that, the higher it will probably get...<P><BR>

Mike,<P>I guess as a dumper..I can say Yes, I hurt..<BR>you know why I have left..but yes, I still hurt..I hurt that he was never there physically nor emotionally over the years..<BR>I hurt that my children will still only see their father one weekend a month..and that nothing will change where that is concerned except they will see him at his apartment and not here..<BR>I hurt that I have to have someone else watch my children so that I can work whereas before I stayed home..<BR>I hurt for what will never be, and what never was..I hurt that he thinks he needs to drink <BR>just to relax..and doesn't know how to relax with out it..I hurt knowing my children hurt..but I also know that even with all the hurt I feel inside..I know that I am doing whats best for me and my sanity..and my emotional health..staying where I was in the emotional and verbal abuse wasn't healthy..<P>And I apparently hide my hurt very well..because he tells me I am very hard-hearted towards him..but it's more<BR>to protect myself at this point..knowing that<BR>he hasn't changed..and doesn't think he needs to..but I have changed..and know I needed to..and I am still changing and growing..and I feel becoming a better person..even if he thinks I am just becoming a *itch..I just don't respond to his angry outburst the same way anymore..and I try not to show that his words do hurt me still..even when he tries to be nice..I have up my guard..because I know he hasn't changed..and I know I don't trust his words..because they've never matched his actions..so yes, we hurt too..but we try to hide it..in order to protect ourselves..<P>I know that our situations are different..but..yes, sometimes..we still hurt..

WhenIfindthetime,<P>You are sooo right! I will never, ever take anything from any inlaws again - ever. I was against it from the get-go, even more so because my own father always let me know that if I needed help, he would be there. My FIL is different in the fact that he may lend you money, but then he watches everything you do or spend any money on. He gives, but always with strings attached as well.<P>--------<P>Jayhawk 93<P>Good to see ya old friend. Your words mean a lot to me - especially knowing how similar our situations were/are. Whether you know it or not, you have helped a lot. Knowing that you are a few months ahead of me, hearing what you are going through has helped me prepare for what I may experience (and already have experienced). Thanks my friend.<P>------<P>FaithfulWife,<P>Thank you for your kind, supportive words that appear not only here, but on other threads as well. If I get advice on future events from Jayhawk93, I get much emotional support (and religious) support from you. For that I will always be thankful.<P>---------<P>GnomeDePlume,<P>I agree with you on this one. In a way I feel a sense of sadness that I really do know what she is doing and how she is hurting herself. You all don't know my wife, but trust me when I say that she so often burys things down deep and puts on her "happy mask". She has been and maybe always will, be looking for someone/something to make her happy. As many times as I have tried to tell her that happiness comes from within, she refuses to listen.<BR>------------<P>Thorned Rose,<P>Yes I do remember why you left - your situation is one of the ones I always refer to in my posts, when I say there are always exceptions. You differ a lot from my wife, because you know that some of the things you do may not be the best things and that you are continually choosing to learn and explore things about yourself - that to me is commendable.<P>In all honesty, I know that she is hurting - I guess it would just be nice to hear a little (just a little) of it coming out of her mouth. But I also know the reasons why that probably won't happen.<P>-------<P><BR>Thanks for your replies guys and gals. I am feeling better today, even though I got even more bad? news last night - but I will post about that later today!<P>God Bless,<BR>Mike

Mike,<P>Believe me when I say that you have helped me out a great deal through all of this yourself. Knowing how similar our experiences are I'm glad that some of what I have shared here has helped you as well. <P>What I wouldn't give to have just a few unencumbered minutes to explore my ex's thoughts <BR>

Mike,<P>This meeting of the mutual admiration society is hereby called to order.<P> <P>Just thought you should know that the entire time I've been here there have been a few people I've learned to depend on as my wise council, and you are one. In my life, I do want to do what I know is right and live in a way that's pleasing to God, and boy, I can't tell you how many times you may not have known it, but God spoke directly to me through you. I'm really glad for this chance to let you know I'm so thankful you were here--just wish it was for different reasons! Like you said, you've been an invaluable source of wisdom and support for me, and I'm glad to have the chance to help you back. <P>Can ya feel the love? Heehee<P>CJ<P> <P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Thanks for the kind words.<P>God Bless you both and all here.<P>Mike

Ok Guys (And girls..) <BR> What do you do with those "ugly" feelings? I have lost my best friend and my husband... Part of me wants to just "ride out the storm", but the other part of me wants to see him get what he deserves. I also know that at this point I am capable of destroying whatever relationship he has with OW, as I was a secret for him also.. The other parts says "let things lie.. he/she will get what is coming to them"... I do honestly love him more than I can express, but now know that I can't be with him after everything that has happened.. It's the whole friend thing again...

blindsided,<P>If you know that you can't be with him now after everything that has happened, then why would you even consider breaking up him and the OW? And if you were successful in breaking them up, what are the chances that he would come back to you and not just find another one somewhere else?<P>I know all of this is hard, but you have to truly ask yourself what you want and go after that. If you still want him, you have to be honest with him and if he says that he is sure that it's over, then you have to move on. It sucks. Trust me because I know, but you have to.<P>Being vindictive or mean just because you can has never set well with me. It's not who I am. My ex-wife threw out a wonderful man and a pretty good life for what? Obviously something inside her told her that it was the right thing to do. I will probably never understand why she did this and based on something she said I even question why she married me in the first place, but it doesn't really matter now.<P>You're hurt. We all are. And it's almost impossible to go from a marriage to a friendship without a healing period. If you are meant to remain friends, it will happen. Things just have to run their course. It's natural to feel the ugly feelings, but you don't have to act on them. Try writing him a very nasty and rude hate letter, then file it away somewhere. Putting emotions down on paper usually helps me deal with them. But write these letters for your eyes only, and actually write them on paper not the PC. There is something theraputic, more personal in actually writing your feelings on paper.<P>I hope this helps a little. Just know that what you are going through is just part of the process. You can pull through this. <P>------------------<BR>“What does not kill me only makes me stronger”<BR> -F. Neitzsche