Mac-<BR> Just took the time to read through all of the posts.. If you are a freak.. I need to join that club also.. We are on such common ground. My H also lied, cheated, swore there was noone else, etc.. (Meanwhile he had moved her in with her). Oh and guess what, she's married too. He also left his first wife after being attracted me someone else... Deja Vu... <BR> Anyway, I see that you have posted and read a few of my posts as well. I am fluctuating right now on if I could ever trust him again in any capacity. At least we didn't have children, so I don't have to deal with that part.. <BR> As for the revenge thing.. Hasn't it gone through all of our minds?? I can't tell you some of the thoughts that I have had.. I can tell you I have acted on none of them and never will. I have more pride in myself than that. Especially if you have a child- don't do anything to alienate the child from a parent. In time they will figure it all out for themselves. <BR> As for contacting the other BS, I have had the opportunity to do so, and he has even called my house several times. I have right now elected not to say too much (actually, nothing so far). When/if the time comes that I actually speak to him I intend on telling him to contact his wife for answers. I only know my side of the story. Figure it is for each of us to deal with. Plus there is a small part of me that wants another chance with my H, and I know that if I went to the trouble of having any type of "deal" with the WS H, than nothing could happen. I have only to be honest with myself.<BR> <BR> Know, though, that you are not a "freak" and this is a devastating time in your life. Being on this emotional roller coaster is as normal as you can be under the circumstances. Take care of yourself and your child and take each day as it comes. Make sure that whatever choices you make you can still hold your head up and know that you did the right thing, even if he didn't...<P>arm6868@yahoo.com

Mac,<P>the book is NOT for him, it is for you, and how to deal with him. It says right in the introduction, when you see that this fits, you will want to go and tell the person that you have found his answer. They can't see it and won't believe any of it. BPD is a very sophisticated coping mechanism, and since they have used this coping mechanism all their life successfully, they are not about to change it now.<P>But the book discusses characteristics and how to handle them. It blew me away to have exact discussions we had in the book. Now that was freaky. Also, since I started using how they recommended to respond, since it is "catchy," it was very obvious to see in plain daylight. Also picked up on it in the daughter.<P><B> If he really has it, it is somewhat genetic!!! You need to educate yourself on it if he does have it. </B><P>good luck<BR>been there, am still there,<P>tom<BR>

I bet the book is "Stop Walking on Eggshells" <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/157224108X/o/qid=980347461/sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/105-5693132-5491148" TARGET=_blank>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/157224108X/o/qid=980347461 /sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/105-5693132-5491148</A> <P>There's also a website <A HREF="http://www.bpdcentral.com" TARGET=_blank>www.bpdcentral.com</A> <P>I'm leery of diagnosing a problem spouse with an actual problem ... it's always seductive to think the other person is "crazy". The fact of the matter is that the "crazy" person could just as easily be "us". What did Pogo say? "We have met the enemy and he is us!" I believe the shrinks' name for the phenomenon is "projection".<P>Of course, if we have absorbed enough of the BPD's poison, it's also easy for us to think *we're* the crazy ones. <P>Once reality starts to distort in a relationship, it can take some untangling to figure out who's distorting, and how. Restoring focus and perspective may be even harder. Remember, from his point of view he just chose two lousy wives that he had to get away from ... got 'em with the same problems both times ... thinks to himself: "How do I keep picking the exact same losers?".<P>But coming on this board gives you a greek chorus of voices that at least help you identify the issues better, so you don't take his foolishness to heart.<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited January 24, 2001).]

Blindsided, <P>I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one that acts this way. And your name, that's exactly how I felt the first couple of weeks, totally blindsided.<P>Anyways, my revenge is not for me to get even with him for hurting me, it's to make him realize that there are consequences to divorce and what he's done, and make him think twice before doing it again, so he can't hurt another woman and child.<P>With his first wife, he crushed her self esteem so throroughly that she never hired an attorney, just signed the paperwork, and put her tail between her legs and ran.<P>With me, for the first month, he did the same thing to me, crushed my ego so thoroughly that I believed it was all my fault, and when he threatened me about hiring an attorney, my self esteem was so low, I agreed. I signed all the paperwork, didn't hire an attorney, same story all over again.<P>So twice now, he just up and walks on his wife, for another woman, and...he gets all that he wants in the divorce too, is able to dictate how it goes. <P>Well, not this time, I now will hire an attorney if it's not too late, and I am going to now go after the things that I and his child deserve. It's not going to be so easy for him this time. And maybe when he realizes that there are consequences to divorce, he will not be so quick to do it again.<P>I didn't mean that I was going to give or discuss the book with him, I meant I wasn't even generous enough with my time right now to waste it reading about his problem. But now that you mention genetics, I will make a point to read it.<P>He may not have BPD, but I do know he's currently being treated for PTSD, and I have read where sometimes it is common for a person to have both disorders.<P>You know what's the craziest thing. Even though they went on a business trip together, they both filed for divorce at the same time, and they've been seen together, I still doubt!! Isn't that just crazy, I still having a hard time accepting that he did this a second time, and I start to think, maybe it is just a coincidence. I hate that I do that.

Mac- <BR> Just some history... H moved out, said there was no one else.. wouldn't give me his new phone number, called me every day, I couldn't go by his house, he wouldn't answer his cell phone and then would call me right back after I called him, came over for "affection" (lets call it that..), broke "dates" with me, had lots of secrets, etc.. Caught him in countless lies, etc.. <P> Anyway, throughout all this I defended him to my family and friends saying.. "No, he says there isn't anyone else.." They just looked at me like I was nuts.. My counselor even said "sounds like another woman to me". I still believed... I had to see it face to face to believe it. The whole time I had been blaming myself for everything that had happened.. I mean heck.. if there wasn't anyone else, it must be me then... <BR> <BR> Ok, now for the kicker.. Last week he comes over with the divorce papers, we end up talking, I tell him I still love him, ends up fairly emotional. Two days later he claims that he has moved out of HIS house and let her stay there until she and her kids can find a place.. Now, he is calling me every day, says "I love you" again etc.. I am not sure what he wants now, or even what I would be willing to endure. I thought it was over and getting him out of my life last week. Come to find out now, after bringing the papers by and talking he doesn't want to file yet.. Would I take him back? I don't know. Part of me wants to, the other part of me doesn't know if I will ever be able to give him the trust a marriage deserves.. Give you any idea of how psycho I am feeling about now???!!! <P> All I can really say is who knows how it will play out. Only God knows. I am taking things every day at a time. Right now, I am basically in Plan B, but might be willing to go back to Plan A if the opportunity comes along. I am pro-marriage, and if I think there is a chance for a "real marriage" then I will most likely go for it. If not, I will be forced to get a divorce.. <P> As for the revenge issue.. I will only say, do what you can live with and don't worry about it. Just remember, you do have a child, and no matter what you think of him, I am sure that they adore him.. Just food for thought. <P> If you need to talk.. arm6868@yahoo.com<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MacKenzie:<BR><B>OK, I'm reading my own posts here, and I sound like a freak, anyone agree??<P>"I love him, I hate him, I want to work it out, I'm better off without him."<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Mac,<P>You're a normal, decent person trying to cope with a terrible situation. You don't deserve any of this pain, but it came your way anyway.<P>I'm guessing that Tom may have your H pretty well nailed, he seems to know a lot about BPD. However, every situation is unique, and diagnosing from afar based on a comparison to our experience seems to carry a certain risk.<P>Protect yourself and your child, work on yourself, don't let your H make you sink to his level. It seems to me that he's losing a lot more than you are if in fact your marriage is irretrievably broken.<P>IMO, the truth will come out. There's plenty of time to be angry and do what you think you need to do. It's VERY understandable for you to be angry...just don't rashly do anything that will come back to bite you and your child in the end. This doesn't mean you can't stand up for your rights and needs, just be cautious about decisions made in the heat of anger.<P>I wish things were not this way for you. Good luck,<P>Steve<BR>

Well, I have calmed down in the last couple of days. I no longer want revenge against him, he's not worth it. But I still at certain times have doubts about whether he is having an affair or not, one day I'm certain that he is, the next day I'm iffy, <BR>so I am having him watched. <P>Not to use against him in court, or anything like that, just for my peace of mind, so that I can be 100% sure there is an affair. <P>Then, although I am not trying to say I was the perfect wife and didn't have any part in the marriage ending, but at least I can stop blaming myself completely for the marriage ending. I mean someone who can do this twice in less than 6 years to two wives, and blatently lie about it and act like they are doing nothing wrong, obviously has no morals. It's like he feels no remorse at all. What kind of an example is that for his daughter?<P>As far as BPD, I have done some reading about it, and I have my doubts. He isn't an angry or rageful person. It's more like two personalities lately, which is probably just more of a case of he's leading two different lives right now.

The Dynamics of Marital Disintegration is a good article you probably should read:<BR> <A HREF="http://clearinghouse.mwsc.edu/manuscripts/61.asp" TARGET=_blank>http://clearinghouse.mwsc.edu/manuscripts/61.asp</A> <P>It also mentions a book called <I>Sudden Endings</I> that people on this site have spoken well about. <P>I'm glad you're feeling better but I'm sorry things aren't getting much better for you.<BR>

Sorry, it's been awhile since I've posted. Well, the affair has been confirmed, not by him of course, he still completely denies it, even when caught red handed, but in my mind anyways it's confirmed.<P>A person who works with him called me and told me that that he and the OW are definitely a couple and that they think that nobody knows, but actually pretty much everyone they work with knows. He's the boss, she his employee. They've been seen holding hands hailing a cab outside a company party. From what I've been told, a couple of employees are looking for other jobs because they don't respect him as a boss anymore and don't want to work for him. And finally, he spent the night at her house last Sat. night. I'm sure he stays there all the time, but I actually have proof of it Sat. <P>And the final straw, I found out the other day, that throughout our 6 year relationship, he has always been in contact with his first wife, with whom he has no children, so no reason to stay in contact. It wouldn't have bothered me if I knew about it, but the fact that he hid it. That to me was more betraying than the affair. I felt as if he was never committed to this marriage at all. I'm not sure he knows what committment means.<P>So, I'm done. He was the one who filed for the divorce, I didn't want it. But I give up. I have finished the rest of my paperwork, filed it all, and now just have to wait until mid March for the court date. March seemed so soon a couple of weeks ago, I couldn't believe it was all going to be all over so quickly, now, it seems a long way off to wait to go on with my life.<P>He still is verbally abusive, like a Jekyll/Hyde. One day apologetic and mature, the next day yells at me, cusses at me in front of my child, called me a dumb [censored] and gaunt and ugly in front of our D. Like it was my choice to lose weight from being heart broken!<P>I am completely done. Can't even work up tears over him anymore. I just reached a place where even if he begged, he couldn't ever come home again. I would never ever trust him again. If he could deceive me for 6 years, he could easily do it again, and I can't risk my daughter and I going through this again.<P>So, actually I am beginning to look forward to my future. I feel that yes, I made some mistakes while we were married, but nothing that can't be changed with some work on my part, and I can again find love, but this time with someone who is worthy of my love and trust, who will be a great father to my child, and really believes in committment, marriage, and family.<P>So, for now, I am signing off. I'm sure I will read posts here from time to time. I feel for all of you, this is the most painful experience I think anyone can go through, maybe only losing a child could be worse. But I have noticed, that when I move on with my life, I feel strong. But when I spend too much time here, I start to get down about the situation again and my self esteem dips. So for my own well being, I think it's time to move on. I respect all of your for working so hard to save your marriages, it's just not the case with me.<P>Thank you all for your help and advice. I am sorry that things couldn't have been different. Wish they could have been, but really, I just don't think Plan A/Plan B could have helped me. He just moves from gal to gal and always will. <P>Thanks again, and take care.