If I've been on here a lot lately, it's had to do with what is swirling in my own mind. It takes a while for things to come to a head, and even longer for me to *ask* for advice. I try to help others, pick up puzzle pieces where I can during the course of those efforts.<P>The short version:<P>1. XW is back in town and I don't know where I stand--and am reluctant to contact her and find out; this feeds into my second problem.<P>2. New GF and I will shortly travel to a relationship seminar, I'm having a hard time deciding where she stands and probably will have an even harder time telling her. I don't even know where she stands unless and until I have further contact with XW.<BR>__________________________________________<P>1. I'm divorced. Have been since July. Long story, you can read a lot of it here:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum15/HTML/000164.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum15/HTML/000164.html</A> <P>Although the divorce is final, I'm still owed money and signatures by XW. I have secrets belonging to XW, one of which imposes a joint moral duty to tell it to third parties; as far as I know she has not done anything about it. <P>She went to europe with the idea that she would stay, but when she came back and plopped herself back into her old life (only without me), I realized that I still have feelings for her that need to be addressed, and that she *might* be trying to tell me something by coming back here and moving *very* close. She has mixed feelings about the city, and professed a *very* negative feeling in the past about the building she chose to move into--which raises the question of why be there if not for me?<P>I have been skittish about letting XW contact me, if not downright avoidant (owing, really, to emotional fragility on my part--and, XW has "inspected" my apartment with an air of almost owning the place--something that annoys me when I think on it later--there is some patronizing or disrespect I read into her behavior and actions) although I did keep the dog for her on one occasion (and got kind of disrespected there--dog was delivered with no leash, collar or food because XW was hurrying to the airport). <P>She knows I'm involved again, and has hinted to me that she is also--but it could just be a mindgame. <P>I have also e-mailed her and asked that we tell her secret to at least one person who needs to hear it. She has remained uncharacteristically silent (a couple of weeks) since I sent that e-mail, despite the fact that there *was* other unfinished business we were needing to handle more or less urgently.<P>2. After the first failed post-divorce relationship, I found a woman who is *very* close to being exactly what I need. Christian (former Catholic), psych major, Exec. recruiter and former gym coach; she helps me toward mental, career and physical fitness. I fit well into her life, too. <P>We will travel to a Gottman seminar in mid-February to do a lot of nuts & bolts relationship work. We have been living together since the end of October, and we both want this to go the distance. <P>She is aware that I believe that my XW could reel me back in. She would find that very saddening, but has claimed she would not be angry, she would have to accept it; but wonders why I would subject myself to the situation from which I was ousted since it was actually pretty bad there at the last (my psychiatrist agrees with this last thought).<P>My response is that an 11-year history may trump all other considerations. Plus, I believed marriage was for life. My XW seemed to as well, at least until she decided otherwise. <BR>____________________________<P>I am loathe to contact my XW now, because of too many unknowns. And I am under increasing pressure from the GF to wrap up loose ends, collect what's owed me, and be ready to go on with our life together. All this is making me feel very blocked in my life. <P>I need some help figuring out my next move. Thanks, all.<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited January 11, 2001).]

Sisyphus,<P>I don't know your whole personal story and I don't have a lot of time online today to read your link. <P>I would imagine your new girlfriend is having some pain and fear because of your indecision about your ex wife. Do you think its fair that you two are living together before you are positive that it was over with ex wife. Fair to the girlfriend I mean.<P>It seems like you want the new relationship to work, by the way, the seminar workshop sounds interesting, I'd be interested in something like that, how did you find it?<P>But what does it say to poor girlfriend that you "know" exW could reel you in, or that your not sure yourself. Do you think you need to make a decision and stick to it before gf gets hurt.<P>Yes she will be hurt and sad and devestated, if she loves you ,she will. But it almost sounds like your saying, we live together, we want it to work, but hey if exW wants to work on it, I might. Thats not fair. <P>I would think by the gf wanting the closure and tying up the matters and all that she is feeling stress or wanting closure for her own relief. I give her a lot of credit for her hanging in there.<P>Good luck and let me know how that relationship seminar thing goes.<P>Dana<BR>PS I'll read your link when I have more time and reply back.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DanaB:<BR><B>But it almost sounds like your saying, we live together, we want it to work, but hey if exW wants to work on it, I might. Thats not fair. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Of course it's not fair. Not fair of me to get involved before I was completely clear. But I thought I was in the clear. I was already involved when XW unexpectedly returned from europe. <P>In retrospect, I should have recognized that the possibility of XW finding europe not to her liking and returning was *much more* than wishful thinking (which is how I dismissed it at the time). I would have stayed on my own and let the dust settle. Stupid me.<P>I am well aware that I have screwed up yet again! What I need are some ideas of where to go from here!<P>BTW - look at <A HREF="http://www.gottman.com" TARGET=_blank>www.gottman.com</A>; or, in your area, there is probably a chapter of <A HREF="http://www.pairs.org/imagine.htm" TARGET=_blank>PAIRS</A>.<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited January 11, 2001).]

We all make mistakes. I wasn't saying that it wasn't fair to upset you, but I do feel for your gf cuz I know it has to be hard for her, no matter what she tells you.<P>At least, you are being honest about the whole thing. <P>I am not in your situation, so I don't know if I could give you advice, but I am dating someone who is closing up his stuff from past marriage. Of course, so am I. We don't live together yet, but it will happen in time, I am sure of that.<P>How long have you been with gf? you said you lived together since Oct, so thats about 4 months. Is that going ok?? <P>I hate to reply more til I read your link, but I guess for now, maybe you should take some time to think long and hard about this whole thing. Just imagine your exW did want another chance right now. What do you think you'd do? If you think you'd go for it, then maybe it is safer to not live with gf til there is more closure. I'm not saying break up, but maybe not be so close?? <P>If your totally unsure, I suppose that at some point, you will have to make a decision to let go of exW for good, no matter what it is she feels or wants for you. That way you'll have control, and you won't hurt anyone in the process. <P>From what I get out of your post, it sounds like you really are completely unsure about exW. Thats a tough place to be.<P>I expect you'll get some grief for not waiting longer for the relationship, but we all do what we feel is best at the time.<P>I'll reply later to you when I read your background. <P>Hang in there, its slow during the day, you'll get some replies!<BR>Dana<BR>

Sisyphus,<P>Before I married, I dated alot. Not sleeping around, but bona fide dates - great dates - with lots of men for a good ten years. One of my rules, was never date a newly divorced man, exactly for those reasons.<P>I didn't want to care for someone, who might end up reconciling (I get hurt, if I really liked him) nor did I want to influence a man to NOT reconcile because of me - especially if he were not "the one."<P>You moved in together WAY too fast, but you know that now. <P>I would guess that your girlfriend knows exactly what is going on with you, knows you are confused, but is "hoping" for the best, and doesn't want to use guilt to influence you to choose her, nor does she want to give you an easy out to choose trying again with your ex. Believe me, she will be upset. She may think she means it when she says she won't be angry, but she will.<P>I'm sure she honestly thinks that she is better for you. But I am assuming she has not been married, she doesn't understand the bond that marriage makes.<P>My advice would be to talk to her. She probably already knows. I would also suggest you not live together - that is a truly unecessary complication, IMO. And what happens if she ended up pregnant now? <P>And Sisyphus, from a total stranger, the words you use describing her, don't sound like words of a developing love - especially for someone you have known such a short time, or of that hunger you have for another person - but like she is soothing your ego right now, a better fit for you on paper.<P>Sounds to me like you are having sex with a person who should have remained a friend. Very complicated now. Don't use guilt as a reason to NOT break it off - she deserves someone who hungers for her, and believe me, she knew the risk when she starting dating you.<P>Whether or not you and your ex get back together, doesn't seem to me to be the issue. You don't sound like you are ready for the level of commitment you are in? Think about it.<P><BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by honey.west:<BR><B>I'm sure she honestly thinks that she is better for you. But I am assuming she has not been married, she doesn't understand the bond that marriage makes.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Correct.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B><BR>My advice would be to talk to her. She probably already knows. I would also suggest you not live together - that is a truly unecessary complication, IMO. And what happens if she ended up pregnant now? <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>We've spoken. She has the broad outlines. I have agreed to contact XW and get things moving ... it's just very, very difficult. How would you suggest I ask her to move out (rhetorical question--I don't think I can or will as things now stand)? Pregnancy? - I certainly know my duty in that situation.<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>And Sisyphus, from a total stranger, the words you use describing her, don't sound like words of a developing love - especially for someone you have known such a short time, or of that hunger you have for another person - but like she is soothing your ego right now, a better fit for you on paper.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm pretty left-brained about how I write. And I don't wear my heart on my sleeve ... it's been hard enough just to get started with this question. Don't expect the depth of my feelings for new GF to spill across the screens of countless strangers.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Sounds to me like you are having sex with a person who should have remained a friend. Very complicated now. Don't use guilt as a reason to NOT break it off - she deserves someone who hungers for her, and believe me, she knew the risk when she starting dating you.<P>Whether or not you and your ex get back together, doesn't seem to me to be the issue. You don't sound like you are ready for the level of commitment you are in? Think about it.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm doing more than thinking about it. I'm going to the Gottman workshop to learn more about the two of us. But the unfinished business could have a dampening effect ... and trying to finish it could make things far messier before we even get to Gottman. Drat! and Double Drat!<P>

Sisyphus- To me the fact that you live with this woman and are going to a relationship seminar tells me that you do care alot for her. You do not come across as a person who does things without thinking it through. <BR>I'm sure there is alot of unfinished business with your XW. The question is, do you risk a very good promising relationship for one that holds no promise and brought you so much pain? I really think you need to think about what has brought you to where you are now in your life. Is wanting your wife back kind of a ego booster in away? To me nothing can make a person feel more rejected and unloved than being rejected by your spouse. When I daydream about being with my X again I instantly get my selfworth back if only for that brief instant. <BR>It sounds to me that what you have going on with this young woman is good. It sounds to me as if your XW really has no idea what she wants yet in her life and do you really want to get caught up in that indecision again? <P>Jill<P>------------------<BR>live for today for there may not be a tomorrow

I'm going to take a stab at this, and I promise to be thoughtful to your question. No hard feelings and all that--just one person talking to another person, okay?<P>Tell me if I missed something here. Your divorce is final, and your XW went off to europe with the intention of staying over there permanently--or, so you thought. For a variety of complex reasons, at the time she left, you still had some feelings that needed to be addressed, but with her half a world away, it didn't happen. Some time went by and you eventually found another woman who seems to match the standards you had set for a new significant other, and you two started working on a new relationship. Suddenly, without a lot of warning, your XW not only came back from europe, but moved back into your town and lives near you. The unexpected arrival has thrown you for a loop, as you now realize that you have unresolved feelings for your XW. In particular, you feel that the 11 year history that you have with the XW, as well as the vows you once took, make it incumbent upon you to try again if the opportunity presented itself. Now, you are asking us how you should proceed.<P>Well, did I hear what you are saying? Did I get the right question? You do know that no one can answer this question for you, right? This one, you will have to decide on your own. <P>I have a few questions for you that I think might point you in the right direction, though. #1: What does your XW think? Okay, what I'm really asking is, does your XW want to give you another chance or are you just reading something that's not there? I'm sorry to have to tell you this, but the only way to find this out is to contact your XW and stick your neck out. So, the options are: a) don't contact her, don't ask, and keep trying to guess her intentions; b) contact her, don't ask, and try to piece together her intentions; c) contact her, ask her directly, and get it over with. Be my guest to think of other options if you want, but these are the three that stand out as obvious. So, you contact her, you stick your neck out there, and you ask her if she would like to try again. The options are either YES or NO (okay, a myriad of other shades, but those are the basics), so this leads to questions #2, and #3.<P>Question #2: If the XW answers YES, she would like to try again, ask yourself do YOU want to try again? I know you think the 11 year history and the vows would take precedence, but you need to ask yourself this question honestly and face your demon. Do you want to try again to rebuild a relationship that has demonstrated that it has serious problems? Or, have you grown beyond it and now realize that you need someone who meets your "requirements"? You have to make your own decision on this one, because only you know all the facts and only you know how much you can take and how often you can try again. Answering this question for yourself will answer the concern you have about where your new GF stands. <P>Question #3: If the XW says NO, she does not want to try again, the question to ask is how to address the unresolved feelings that you have, while also maintaining a separation between the two of you (you and XW). I'm sorry to have to say that you may have feelings and even be missing the XW a little, and she may not have a single feeling for you at all--other than anger or disrespect. So, how can you resolve the feelings that you have and simultaneously accept the fact that it is really over, forever? Once again, you have to make your own decision on this one, because only you know all the facts and only you know how much you may or may not feel and how willing you are to accept that she's gone. Answering this question for yourself will answer the concern you have about where your new GF stands. <P>Last but not least, I'd give you this encouragement. You need to find out if the XW wants to try again, so be brave and put yourself out there. You can't make an intelligent decision until you have established that fact. I know that it is opening yourself up to probably/possibly being hurt again, but be brave and JUST DO IT! And as you go through this dilemna, remember that your new GF is a gem, because there aren't too many women out there who would be understanding and let you have the space you need to figure this out! Many, perhaps the majority of women, would want you to either "pick her or pick me". So as you struggle with this, no matter what your answer is, remember how unique your new GF is, and let her know!<P>You'll be in my thoughts today.<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Out of the blue I get an e-mail from the XW. Not about the hard personal issue, but about the other details that we need to wrap up. I responded pretty tersely, but wasn't unfriendly. There are some things that I'm actually not ready to move forward on (because I'm simply *missing* items ... either never got 'em or they're misplaced). I'll keep everyone posted ... maybe I'll set up a meeting Saturday to see how far we can get on the remaining issues.<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited January 11, 2001).]

Hey, you know what? We have fussed a little at each other, but I hope you realize that in the end, I'm on your side, pulling for you to find love and happiness (if at all possible). <P>Good job on responding in a way that was terse yet not unfriendly. That must have been difficult. Deal with the details you need to wrap up, accept this friendly hug and face another day!<P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Sisyphus}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>CJ<P><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FaithfulWife:<BR><B>Well, did I hear what you are saying? Did I get the right question? You do know that no one can answer this question for you, right? This one, you will have to decide on your own.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>In the final analysis yes, just like I will be the only one in the six-handled box. But we all have each other to show us different angles on things that one moment we think nobody else can possibly understand and the next moment we're dying to put out there and hear advice about from others.<P>Your angles are pretty good. It's a nice framework for thinking about this knotty set of problems I've created for myself.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited January 11, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by FaithfulWife:<BR><B>Hey, you know what? We have fussed a little at each other, but I hope you realize that in the end, I'm on your side, pulling for you to find love and happiness (if at all possible.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks. Jinx. I was typing while you were posting too.<P>

Spooky! Twilight Zone or X-files? <P>Let us know how it goes.<P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

You know I read your post earlier, have been mulling it around, wanted to respond. You know I think that your situation is not necessarily unique. I think a lot of us have contemplated that once it was over we would get back out there...some more slowly than others...but get back out there. I don't think your getting out there is bad, but perhaps taking things slower is better. How far are you willing to go to really evaluate where you are emotionally? It's kinda like what we have seen our WS...they have us but they have someone else. Granted both women in your life are not necessarily trying to meet your needs, but you can see the duplicity here...you still feel for your XW and yet you have a woman who cares for you and you are sharing a life with. I can't see how you could make heads or tails of your situation and really not being fair to your GF by saying that if XW says she wants to try again, you are in there...possibly, maybe, not sure...we have all been there...not a fun place to be.<P>Just a thought, if you really have feelings for your wife that are not resolved and she seems to be acting in a way that she may not have resolved feelings that you need to distance yourself from the GF and sort this out? You may lose the GF and XW but really making the decision to committ one way or the other, to sorting out unresolved feelings or to proceeding with the new relationship that you really are not sure of.<P>I do want to add that I have appreciated your reponses to my "situation". Sometimes I feel bad about offering advice or ideas to others since I am so conflicted...but I do appreciate where we all are and the thoughts and ideas shared here.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus:<BR><B>I'll keep everyone posted ... maybe I'll set up a meeting Saturday to see how far we can get on the remaining issues.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, there won't be a meeting. She kept trying to get me to meet several months ago, and I kept saying and writing that mail & e-mail would cover it. Now she e-mails me in response to my request and says the same, just when I was ready to stomach a meeting. So the shoe is now on the other foot... .<P>Shrink today (in our regular session) suggested basically avoiding her like the plague. ... even if we can get along at first, he says old ways of interacting will reassert themselves. The only possible disagreement that I might have is that when *she* emerged from a health situation where she needed a lot of tending, the supportive but not husbandly role that I had assumed was, for both of us, difficult to shake off. Could it be different now?<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited January 12, 2001).]

Sisyphus:<P>I'm not sure I understand the "unresolved feelings" statement. You thought you were no longer in love with her but now you're not sure? Or, you thought you were through be angry at her but you still are? etc.<P>If it's on the love side of the coin...you are being incredibly unfair to the gf - even if she knew upfront you were a new divorcee. IMHO, you need to take charge of the situation...explain to gf that you are conflicted and cannot wholly dedicate yourself to your new relationship until you've closed the door on the old and to do that you need some time alone...it is not HER, it is YOU. <P>She will either understand (based upon her aforementioned prior knowledge) and skedaddle while waiting for you to figure your stuff out...or she will move out and say this guy has too much baggage.<P>Either way, the truth is that you have to fix your emotional quandry re:ex wife, BEFORE you can honestly/realistically/fundamentally deal with someone new.<P>Otherwise, your gf may end up feeling like you were/are having an EA with your ex due to the unresolved nature of your feelings and be very threatened by it. I would be.<P>Just my opinion in the "for what it's worth" dept.<P>Fence riding is never fun...it always leaves slivers in your behind!<P>Lisa

You ask questions in a funny way. I think that you two have an eleven year history that eventually led to behaving in certain ways toward each other. At first, if you both agreed to try again, you might get along great and use all the new knowledge at your disposal. However, gradually, as time went by, the old habits would re-appear and the old behaviors would resurface. Now granted, this is somewhat fortune-telling, but we did have the X-files/Twilight Zone thing going yesterday. I think your counselor was trying to point out to you that human nature is to return to the paths we knew, and that even armed with all your new knowledge, it is very likely that you would return to the "old ways and old behaviors."<P>I know you're wrestling right now with unresolved feelings toward your X and where does that leave your GF, but try to be honest with yourself. It seems that your X's answer to "the question" is NO! I'm sorry to say, I think you'll need to resolve the feelings on your own, separate and apart from her. And the supportive caregiving role that you took for a while probably lent to even further feelings. The sad fact is, it's over. I'm sorry, but we'll be here, and yes, even I will be here for you as you struggle with coming to terms with that. But it is over.<P>I'm so sorry, Sisyphus. <P>{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Sisyphus}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}<P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

<B>Sisyphus</B>,<P>Thanks for your post to my Plan B letter...<BR>...I appreciate it.<P>Your story (and I did go back to your earlier post)... is not far different than mine (except for the issue of kids)... in terms of "why our wives left".<P>I take it you never gave her a Plan B - type letter?...<BR>...since there was no mention of it.<P>The Plan B letter as a "love letter"...<BR>...(I hope mine Plan B letter can across as such)...<BR>...gives you a much needed form of closure.<P>There is that delicate period from the point of starting Plan B (or a completed divorce in your case)... where the loss of love hits that critical stage...<BR>...a stage that straddles on the "what if"... versus the "no way"...<P>I'm moving toward that point...<BR>...whether it be a few weeks or months after my divorce... (most likely the former.)<P>You are so close to that point...<BR>You need to make the decision... one way or another.<P>Complete break with you XW?... or...<BR>Complete committal to "find where you stand with your GF"?...<P>It is a hard choice!<P>What makes my situation a bit easier is that there is no GF in the picture...<BR>...and won't be... for the indefinite future!<P>I've given myself as much time as I need...<BR>...as a RC... looking toward an annulment...<BR>...I have not put myself into a "pressure situation".<P>Your situation is a bit different...<BR>...and what needs to be kept in focus is <B>honesty</B>...<BR>...primarily to your GF.<P>MB concepts stress this in building a marriage...<BR>...and of course... that includes courtship!<P>It is better to be hurt in courtship...<BR>...than suffer the pain of another divorce...<BR>...your best bet is... honesty... early on... and as <B>total</B> as possible.<P>Your W deserves a level of honesty comensurate with your ability to get hurt (not to hurt her)!<BR>Don't use your hurt (if it happens) as way to bring your GF to your rescue...<BR>...think about "rebound"...<P>Again...<BR>...I respect your work in helping others...<BR>...and know first hand...<BR>...<B>we</B> who help... often need help ourselves!<P> <P>Jim

Sisyphus,<P>I know your emotions are probably all over the place. But take a deep breath and relax. I know you are hearing a lot of "that's not fair to gf", so I won't add to that. I will agree with Jim when he said that its better to be hurt during courtship than by another divorce. Let's be real, I'm sure mostly everyone here has dated before and know that not everyone you date, you end up marrying. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying to take your new relationship lightly and I know you don't or else you wouldn't be going to that seminar next month. <P>Just make sure you continue to be honest with yourself first(which is probably tough, when you don't know exactly what it is your feeling) and continue being honest with you gf. She's a big girl, she knew what she was getting into and its your job to be honest, but her job to decide if she wants to stay or go. It's a risk to date. You take a risk that this may or may not be the person for you. You already know that you need to take a step back away from it all, and evlauate exactly what it is or who it is that you want. Is it the gf or the ex? Maybe its neither. <P>As far as what your counselor says about avoiding you ex, I must disagree even though I'm not a professional in his/her field. I think its the best thing for you. And we all know that people can change. Not saying that she has, because you don't really know. I know she declined your request to meet in person, but it's possible she's afraid as well. <P>Sisyphus you got to do what's best for you. If you stay with your gf, fine. If you get back with you ex, fine. If you choose neither, fine. Theirs really not a wrong or right decision in your case. Unfortunately this may cause someone getting hurt including you. But that's life. We live and we learn.<P>Best of luck...I'll be praying for you.<P>------------------<BR><B>God, Grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change...Courage to change the things I can...And the wisdom to know the difference.</B><P>lady_divine77@yahoo.com<p>[This message has been edited by jamie-lee (edited January 12, 2001).]

I have decided that she declined to meet in person because of my attempt to push her into telling her secret. I'm sure there are *very* mixed feelings with her about it: anger, shame, guilt, fear, dread, etc. None of them are really justified, but they all add up to a powerful motivation for avoidance. <P>On Friday, my psychiatrist tried to probe regarding whether the matter should just be dropped. Much as I'd like to drop it, while the odds may be against the problem arising, it's potentially a very *big* problem; thus I can't continue to ignore it.<P>I may set a deadline for proof that the secret has been told. I may not. I may jump the gun and tell it myself; hell, I don't know what I'm gonna do. It might be best just to do the deed ... XW would have exceptionally good cover if I did that. I would just need to look up the person who needs to know ... they live on the other side of town.<P>I've gone from wanting to *maximize* her distress and the impact on her family to wanting to find a way to *minimize* it (while still getting the job done). One thing that can't be good for her is letting it drag out. She's probably known I wanted this handled for a good two weeks now (my e-mail to her probably sat for a few days over the holidays before she read it). She hasn't called me on the phone since then (her preferred means of communication), and the e-mails have been very terse. If I get her on the phone, she will let her sense of her autonomy being violated get in the way of working toward the best solution. And I think it might really get in the way of our already minimal cooperation on financial matters if *I* make any move or even try to nudge again (which really *should not* be a consideration, but I'll admit right here that it is).<P>Meanwhile, I'm feeling even closer to and more comfortable with my GF. Must be the outlet I have here helping me get my thoughts straight.<P>Any more thoughts? Thanks.