what if the feelings and love will come back.<BR>I don't know when I should throw in the towel. It has been 1 year and 8 months since his 1 week sexual A and I still cannot look at him in a loving way. Oh I have tried (reading forgivness books, counseling, more reading, workbooks) but I think for me getting that hurt it maybe too much for me to bounce back. Any help?

There's a lot more than his affair and your absence of loving feelings that's troubling your marriage. <P>You are in a spot many of the people on this board have been in, and so is your husband. Don't give up hope just yet, for you, your husband, or your life together.<P>We need more detail in order to be able to help. How long have you been married, any children, what are the details of what you have tried alone and together? What has he done to atone, and have you really, really forgiven him if he atoned properly. Have you done a Plan A?<P>We're all here to help.

Here is some more info for you. <BR>We were marriaed 8 months when he had his A. Now married 2 years and 4 months. No children. I think I have done a lot of forgiving but I am still deeply hurt from what I thought to what I got. I thought the plan A was if your spouse was still with the OP?<BR>He has really been remorseful, changed his poor habits that led to the A, etc, I just cannot seem to let myself open up to him again and if I do once in a while I feel so guilty and afraid of getting hurt again even though I know better.<BR>Our situation was that H was gone 5 months of our first year together, was lonley and had a one week fling. He was in a poor, leading environment. This I understand and forgive but I still hurt... maybe I truly have not forgivin him but how do I when I seem to have tried it all?

One element of Surviving and Affair is Plan A -- designed to secure a promise of total separation from the other woman--it seems that may not have happened formally. "It was just a fling, that won't happen again. Sorry" is not enough. There must be a plan so that "it" *never* happens again. With the other woman, or any other woman in the future. That means both you and he are creating an entire framework to buttress the damaged original framework of your marriage. <P>Without doing that, you are left without the assurances you need, and he is left without full access to your heart ... your marriage may stay together ... cold ... meaningless ... a sham. Or, you'll split up. Only to repeat those patterns again in the next relationship. <P>Get the real details on Plan A. There's still time to do it. Also look into "Why Women Leave Men". Both of you have parts you played in the downfall of your marriage, and parts you must play in its rebuilding.<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited January 11, 2001).]

Sisypuhs, thanks for writing back so quickly.<BR>I understand your comments bu I really think ours is somewhat different. He was feeling down about bing so far away and this opportunity arose that he had trouble saying no to. I believe he has learned his lesson and learned what had happened (her leading him, his attitude, etc) and I know "it" wont't happen again. He has changed all his traveling, I even had faked an e-mail to him from her and he told me all about it, then I told him it was me. It is like he has done everything to win back my heart but.. <BR>The thing is he HAS done everything right as far as recovery for him and me but I simply have shut my heart down to him. I do want to open it but...HELP!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janiee:<BR><B>I simply have shut my heart down to him. I do want to open it but...HELP!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That is not true. If you *want* to open it you *have* opened it. The rest is just the details of restoring those "feelings" you are talking about. <P>If he has done *everything* you think he can and should do, and you have successfully tested him as much as you feel is necessary; then if something is missing, it is up to you to find it. But I don't think the missing thing is *you* opening your heart to your husband. The problem is something else--because if you *want* things to be like they were and recognize that it's just you, then you still love him.<P>Regarding opening your heart:<BR><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>if I do once in a while I feel so guilty and afraid of getting hurt again even though I know better.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Why would you feel guilty about loving the man who is your husband ... who has been cleansed of his sin? Perhaps it isn't guilt you feel. Perhaps it's fear that you are being foolish, that it's really going to happen again and that you will be a fool. How strong is that new framework you built ... did you have a good blueprint? Unless it's rock-solid, you will still be plagued by fear.<P>If all really is well with the world except for what you feel in your heart, I would try that opening again. And try not to think about the things you think about afterword. Just enjoy what you have allowed yourself to feel again. A couple married 75 years could be hit by infidelity tomorrow ... it's always a risk in *any* marriage. <P>If you can't get past this in a reasonable time, don't beat yourself up and don't dump him. Get more counseling, or see a different counselor--or perhaps attend a workshop *together*. Good luck.<P><BR>

I think deep down I am not sure I had ever truly loved him. When we first met I idolized him more than anything. I know I was very niave. When he hurt me I took a BIG step back and looked hard at everything. I feel that he had used me in some ways. My fault was that I was so giving and did everything he wanted even though I put my desires and needs on the back burner. So mainly I guess I am more let down by the blow and the air being knocked out of me. Does that make more sense. I try to find ways to catch my breath but I don't know if I want to breath this air again.<BR>Thanks though.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janiee:<BR><B>I think deep down I am not sure I had ever truly loved him. My fault was that I was so giving and did everything he wanted even though I put my desires and needs on the back burner. So mainly I guess I am more let down by the blow and the air being knocked out of me. Does that make more sense. I try to find ways to catch my breath but I don't know if I want to breath this air again.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So the guilt would be for making him think that it might not be *over* between him and you? You're really done with him, but occasinally he has something you want or need and you let him give it to you, then you immediately feel used, wrong, etc.?<P>I guess then it all boils down to whether you believe marriage is for life. If you do, it's time to redouble your efforts, prayers, etc.<P>If you don't, it's time to start freezing him out, as a preparation for ultimately telling him it's time to divorce. Have you thought about the best way to do that, taking into account his particular psychology? Will you do it suddenly, or gradually move toward an announcement with the ol' separate bedroom routine, stopping doing things together, avoiding intimate conversation, eating separately, etc.? You have a lot of practical steps to plan. <P>

"I guess then it all boils down to whether you believe marriage is for life. "<BR>I think I did until he didn't. My VERY stron belief while dating and marriage is that if you are committed you are. I used to talk to him about affairs (his dad had two) I used to tell him that is the worst thing you could ever do to someone, that would be grounds for divorce right there. I am so mad that he didn't respect the vows. It breaks my heart just writing about this. I feel he did divorce me, he didn't belive in marriage... so how can I???

Here an idea. Go ahead and divorce him. No-fault, fill out the papers yourselves. Then let him "win" your affection all over again. It will let you formally put the past behind you and start fresh. If he fails then you are better off without him than with.

Just a thought...wonder if that "I'm so mad" is part of the "wall" you've built around your heart. Sometimes when the spouse is immediately repentent, the anger never gets expressed, and resolved.<P>Does this thought strike a chord for you at all?

You know the thing is I don't want to leave him, I don't want to go through with a divorce, I do want to make it work, I just can't seem to get over it. I know I sound like a big sob story. You know what it is I was raised like a princess and now that my toes got steped on all I'm doing is crying about it. I am such an idiot most of the time!

When the spouse is "immediately repentent"?<BR>You mean because he was so sorry right away I didn't release all of my ager to him???

Yes, that is what I meant. Just a thought...

So what would I do now 1 year 8 months later??

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janiee:<BR><B>So what would I do now 1 year 8 months later??</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Write a long letter, expressing all your hurt, disappointment, lost innocence, fear of it happening again, distrust, anger ... write it all out. Put it in an envelope. Make a decision: show it to him, or hide it?<P>Maybe the letter asks him for a formal apology. Asks him to tell you how he feels about you.<P>If everything goes OK, then PAIRS, Retrouvaille, a Harley or Gottman workshop should be in order.<P>

Thanks for the ideas. I did get home, sat down and wrote everything that has been bottled up. All of a sudden I was crying like a baby but boy did I feel relieved.<BR>I just finished the letter when my H got home. I went down and he noticed I had been crying. I told him that I wrote him a letter expressing my anger but that it was for me, I told him I had been crying, but that it seemed to help me release some things. I gave him the letter and said you can do with it what you want but I need to give it to you to let it go. He understood but then was a bit snippy later and we got into a fight about how it has been so long and I am still hurt. But at the end he say that I am doing my best and he agreed to support me.<BR>So thanks again. I'm sure I'll write more and do some journaling but maybe I'll just burn the letters!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janiee:<BR><B>He understood but then was a bit snippy later and we got into a fight about how it has been so long and I am still hurt. But at the end he say that I am doing my best and he agreed to support me.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>There is a <B>Talking Heads</B> song where David Byrne can be heard to say in the background "Say something once ... why say it again?" (help me out here folks, is that "<I>Psycho Killer?</I>"?) like a typical guy making the typical complaint that women beat every subject to death, and then beat it some more. This is an area where men just don't get it. <P>While little girls play with Barbie and Ken and work out B & K's life together day after day on the playground, the men are playing games. The games have scores. The games end, and at the end somebody either won or lost, and that's that. They don't talk much about it, except a little razzing about who won or lost. Next day, same thing. But different. It's a new day, a new game, a new episode. Yesterday doesn't matter ... it's today's outcome that matters. It will be some time before they even approach the concept that there is a sports season, over which teams develop a record, and where there is a championship decided. And even then, there's always next year!<P>My point is, your H is *really* put out and annoyed that this episode keeps coming back up like an overspiced slice of pizza. That is not your problem, it's his cross to bear. You do, however, need to be a little understanding of it; or it will anger the hell out of you. It shouldn't. <P>So for him, the past is the past, and as Don Henley said "Get Over It!" For you, the past informs the future. It must be dealt with. It must be looked at again and again, or it lurks like the crazy aunt in the basement ... the longer it's unspoken, the more pressure builds up. <P>You and he need to handle this together. He needs to learn that the more he's willing to approach this now, the quicker it's going to fade away. There is just a certain amount of talking, etc. that you need to do. And you need to understand that he has his limits, at least on a particular day. <P>That's where those weekend workshops come in, etc. It's a good place to do that stuff in a structured environment. If you both want your marriage, you'll be open to doing them.

Thanks Sisyphus<BR>"You and he need to handle this together. He needs to learn that the more he's willing to approach this now, the quicker it's going to fade away. There is just a certain amount of talking, etc. that you need to do. And you need to understand that he has his limits, at least on a particular day."<P>I'll share your comments with him tonight. I did tell him and he did understand when I said " look I didn't want to go through this, I didn't begin all this crap, but were here now and yes I am this princess and sensitive person and it is too bad you didn't realize my reaction before you acted but if you want to bail out that is up to you. I am trying still, I am reading books, I am on the Marriage builders site trying to work through my anger still."<BR>It felt good to say and it felt great that he understood where I am at.

You might also tell him about the myth of Sisyphus. He probably feels like Sisyphus (the name is taken--he can't have it). Just tell him that one day if you and he work together, the rock will stay up, and he can go back to being a king again.<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited January 12, 2001).]