I thought I would start a new thread to respond to your question. It is hard when who you think you married starts becoming someone else. When I first married my H it was in the temple. He was active and very strong in the church. One year later he was not going to church at all, had stopped wearing his garments (you know what I mean) and spent most of his time gambling (which was quite a feat, seeing as we don't live were it is legal). I can tell you that my feelings were that of total dissappointment. I do believe in each person having the right to chose the path their life takes but I felt like he was affecting my life more than he was his own. He was not what I had married and to be honest, if I had known it would have taken this turn before we got married I would not have married him. I spent many Sunday afternoons in with my bishop talking about how to handle this. It is a touchy thing to deal with. First there is the freedom of choice. The most basic belief that we have. Each person is free to choose there path. What I have come to realize is that I must give him this freedom of choice but make it very clear that what I choose is to remain stong and active and that he must respect my choice. Second is how is affects the kids. It was not until our first child was five that my H saw what he was doing. My son told me that he wanted to not go to church like his dad. When my H heard this he started going again. Luckily I was stong enough to keep the kids in line, but they were still very young.<p>Where your wife is making decisions without you I would set some ground rules with her. There should be certain things that require discussion before decisions will be made. I don't think you would be out of line to talk to her about this. I would also suggest that the two of you talk to your bishop together. He may be able to give you and her some more insight in what she is learning. This is so much more than her believing in something else (but you know that). I would also confront her on just what is it she believes. What path does she want her life to take. I don't know if you are doing all that the church suggests but if you are not (praying together and reading the scriptures together) I would recommend starting that right away. <p>The hardest part in dealing with this is dealing with the dissappointment that you had in mind the kind of person you wanted to marry and now see that person changing into someone you wouldn't have married. It is a tough problem, I wish you luck. Don't just sit back and let her change, stand your ground with your beliefs. My prayers are with you. <p>Steph

Steph,<p>Thanks for the thoughtful response and sharing your experience with me. As I read your post, it became clearer to me that in fact, my wife has become inactive. She attends church on a semi-regular basis, but I believe her heart and mind are elsewhere. The thing is, I don't think she can be honest with me or the bishop because she isn't honest with herself. Unfortunately, I've made our situation much more complicated and worse by my own MAJOR mistakes . <p>When I read the original message on different religions I felt I needed to reply, however I was concerned that if I used the name I'd been using on this messageboard, knowledge of my own actions would reflect badly on the church. Being human like everyone else, I hope everyone reading this understands that the things I've done are completely contrary to the principles I've been taught and believed as a Mormon. I would rather be perceived as a hypocrite than give the impression that the church in any way condones anything that I've done. Quite the contray. Having said that, I'll remove my disguise and let you and everyone else reading this know that I am actually "slowlerner".<p>Since I've already confessed most of my "sins" on this messageboard elsewhere, I won't go into those details here -- I know you've read some of what I've written because you've responded in the past. But I do think it's important, so that those not familiar with the the LDS church understand more fully, where I stand now.<p>Back in early November I went to my bishop and confessed the things I've done. Two weeks later I had to do the same with our stake president. That meeting lasted about two hours, with me relating the many things I've done. Because of the seriousness of my transgressions (adultry, among others), a disciplinary council was held in early December. For those not at all familiar with this, basically it was similar to a court. Over a period of about two hours I once again had to confess what I had done and answer questions. It was very difficult, as there were 17 church leaders present in the room, many of whom I'd known for a number of years.<p>The result of this disciplinary council was that I was excommunicated. I am no longer a member of the LDS church. I know this may be difficult for non-members to understand, but basically the church has standards that they expect church members to live up to. Nobody is perfect, and everyone sins on a daily basis in their lives, however some sins are more serious than others, requiring formal disciplinary action to be taken.<p>I am still able (and encouraged) to attend church meetings, however I am no longer considered a "member." More like a guest, I suppose. And as a guest, I'm treated with all the courtesy and respect a guest anywhere would be treated with. After an unspecified amount of time, once I've proven myself willing and able to honestly strive to adhere to the teachings and standards of the church, I may once again be eligible for church membership.<p>I feel that I've completely accepted responsibility for my actions, and am doing everything I can to get my life back on track. And with everything you may now know about me, you probably think my wife's "sins" pale by comparison. <p>She's far from being an "innocent victim," however. In fact, she's also guilty of serious transgressions, however she hides behind her diagnosis of bipolar disorder to avoid accepting responsibility for her own actions. She told the bishop that she was manic at the time, and didn't have any control over her actions. Yeah, right.<p>I had a long talk with my home teacher on Sunday. He's been our family's home teacher for about two years, so he knows us fairly well. Of course he was completely shocked when I just took off with the kids back in August, and over the next three months he was called on to help out a lot with my wife and kids (after I returned them to her in compliance with a court order) in my absense. You would think that he would have gotten a bad impression of me from all this, especially since he only got to hear my wife's side of the story about everything.<p>But during that time he got to know my wife much better, and he said he found her to be (among other things) manipulative and dishonest. He's encouraging me to continue my legal fight for custody of the kids, and to forget about reconciling. He's very concerned about the welfare of the children. Even my bishop seems to be leaning that way, I think, even though he won't come out and say it. This is all very confusing for me, to say the least. After all, we were also sealed in the temple. <p>Meanwhile, it's only the church that's enabled her to continue living the way she has. They're paying her rent and many of her other monthly bills. If that was cut off, I don't know what she'd do. I don't think she's worried about that though -- I've heard her say that she knows the church will support her.<p>She's adament about wanting the divorce, and I know she has the right to go that route, however I also detect a complete lack of spirituality in her life, and have for a long time. I really don't think she's made this a matter of prayer. When I asked her if she's prayed about any of this, she just gets a angry look on her face. I've also asked her to pray WITH me, and so far she's refused to do that too.<p>I really feel like we could turn things around by using Dr Harley's books and accepting his methods for restoring and building our marriage. She's read some of this stuff, however right now I think she's emotionally involved with someone else, making it impossible for her to really give it seriously thought. Like so many people caught up in affairs, she's holding onto the fantasy that this person is the answer to all of her problems.<p>Sorry for the long story, but I felt it was necessary. One of the things I'm working on in my life is honesty. Honesty has always been an important value to me, however over the years I found myself becoming increasingly dishonest. I'm trying hard to turn that around now. So whenever you see posts from serendipity in the future, you'll know it's slowlerner, and vice versa. I got tired of hiding in my real life, and I surely don't want to get started doing the same thing here.<br>

Serendipity/slowlearner,<p>Thanks for coming clean. I'm sorry to hear about your disciplinary action with the church. <p>Actually, it doesn't sound that far away from what would happen in our church, and it is Biblically prescibed. (Though the details do vary) I don't think a member would be "excommunicated" from our church IF they confessed the sin, and gave up the sinful activity. (Discipline in our church is rare - thankfully - and always intended to bring the sinner back to God.) <p>A really good expression I learned at our church is: Attending church doesn't make you a saint any more than going into a garage makes you a car.<p>Val

Serendipity,<p>(((((((HUGS)))))))<p>Let me share something with you. My brother was married to a women in the temple. She was very controlling. They had other problems of infertility and money while they were going through school. They finally conceived a child and he graduated and got a wonderful job. On the outside things seemed to be good for them. On the inside it was terrible. She dedicated her life to their son. No sex was allowed for two years and it started only because she wanted another child. My brother was the young mens president. He spent alot of time talking with the young womens president, who was also in a bad marriage. Well as you can guess one thing led to another and he had an affair. It last for two months before the guilt became too much and he confessed. At that time his wife was pregnant with child number two. He did everything he could to make things right. They went to counseling, he confessed and was excommunicated. He submitted himself to all of her demands. After the baby was born he couldn't take anymore. They separated. For nine more months he tried with her. In all that time she could not forgive him. She could not admit that they had both made mistakes. She justified that his was worse and therefore none of her fault. The divorce became final and my brother started getting his life back on track. Attending church, praying, reading the scriptures and doing what he needed to do to get back to the church. In this time he met a lady that was divorce with three kids. They became very close. She was there for his re-baptism. Now they are married and expecting another child into their home. My ex-sister-in-law is still very bitter. Fighting with him and using the kids to punish him. He has gone to court several times to enforce the custody order. He himself is not very far from being able to go through the temple again with his new wife.<p>My point to telling this to you is that sometimes the plan is to move on. There is only so much you can do to save it. When I asked my brother how he felt about things he said that he still wishes that he could have made it work with his first wife but he knows that it was not up to him. He prayed to God about his divorce and knew that given the circumstances this was what was right for him.<p>Serendipity/slowlearner...trust in the Lord. He will not guide you wrong. You are in my prayers. I know your heart is good and you have made a good start. <p>Steph<p>P.S. Thank you for your honesty. I must admit there are a few details I keep hidden and maybe one day will have the courage to expose myself.

Val --<p>Thanks for your understanding. It's much appreciated.<p>Steph --<p>Thanks for telling me your brother's story. It was just one of many things that have happened in the past week to make be believe that, at least for now anyway, I need to shift my focus off trying to reconcile with my wife, and work instead on getting my own personal life straightened out. I need to find a couple jobs, get on top of my finances, and also find a place to live. Self-employment doesn't work when you can't give it the attention it needs, and sleeping in my van for three months hasn't helped matters either.<p>The turning point came a week ago when I wrote my wife a lengthy letter telling her how I felt she contributed to all that's happened. For some reason she just can't/won't see that she did anything that contributed to my unhappiness. After giving her the letter, I felt a huge weight lifted off my shoulders. I don't really understand it, but I do know that for the past three months I've made a valiant effort at trying to reconcile. During that time I accepted full responsiblity for all that I had done wrong, and said practically nothing about her part in anything. <p>I feel now that it's in her hands. If she continues with the divorce, I feel that I'm finally prepared to accept that and move on. I'm not making any more efforts to change her mind or anything like that. If she decides at some point in the future that she wants to give "us" a second chance, then I'll deal with that when it happens. But I DO know that it will be a lot harder for HER then because I'm going to insist on some changes and rules before I'll even consider it. I will never go back to living the way we were. Never. And quite frankly, I don't think she's capable of making those changes. So I really don't have much hope of us ever getting back together.<p>I'm not even going to think about dating or having a social life until I'm settled and somewhat adusted to my new life, and have even thought I might wait until after I've been rebaptized. A couple weeks ago I felt like I would never remarry, but now I'm not so sure. If God leads me in that direction, then I'm sure he'll heal my heart so that I'm capable of loving another woman with everything I've got. I'll only do it if I know I can give her 100 percent of myself though, and right now that doesn't seem possible. But maybe with time...<p>My wife, on the other hand, is already involved with someone (a non-member), and has even brought the guy home to meet the kids. I think that has a lot to do with her coolness towards me. Knowing her, I wouldn't be surprised to see her go through a number of short-term romances. I seriously doubt any guy will stick with her very long though -- she has too much "baggage". Not just the kids, but everything else as well, such as her bipolar disorder. I'm trying not to think about what she's doing though -- it's no longer my problem. Well, except for how it affects the kids, which DOES bother me .<p>So how are things for you now? Any progress?

Serendipity/Slowlearner<p>You are in my thoughts and in my prayers. You can do and be anything you want to. Take care of yourself and your kids. I asked my therapist one day what will I do if he never sees his side of it. Her answer to me was that she had many clients that never saw it and many that only saw it when it was too late. Seems to me that sometimes the denial can run too deep in some people. She told me (and she is married to a general authority) that when the time come to leave the lord will let me know. Pray to him and he will give you the answers you need.<p>As for me. I trudge forth down the path. I feel like we are improving in some areas but not in others. It's almost as if the minute I say that things are improving my world caves in and it is as if we haven't made any improvments at all. All I know is that right now the lord is telling me to stay so I am and will work on it until he says enough is enough. Today is a bad day but tomorrow is a new day and may be good.<p>Steph<br>