You both go into marriage freely and in love, all the while believing that your in it for the long hall. Divorce wasn't an option-you both work out differences, etc. In "our" case my Husband cheated (& although he isn't seeing this OW, he longs for her) Oh, and get this, she doesn't want him back because he "abandoned" her and her little boy when he came back to me. When he came home it wasn't to rebuild our marriage (which I thought) it was just to do the right thing and basically wrap things up. This OW has broken up three homes by having affairs with married men. What I don't understand is what kind of power do these kind of women have! I realize my husband was weak, but it causes me so much pain to know that he longs for her (she is so strong!) and he wants to build a life with her. I consider myself to be a woman of good character with many other good qualities, best of all MORALS!!! I'll be out of our home in two weeks, and I think that he is excited about it, and sadness that he feels, I believe is directed at the struggle to get the OW back. Our relationship spanded 13yrs. (I'm 32), together we conquered so much and had so many great times. I'm sad and angry that he isn't overwhelmed with emotion for what he has cast aside. My heart is broken and I am petrified, it seems like a business deal to him. When will he feel the pain and realize he made such mistake, or will he ever??????

The overwhelming part will come. I don't know of anyone, the WS or the BS, that hasn't felt the overwhelming. Some handle it better than others. What you need to do is find out what you are after. If you no longer want him then of course D is the logical choice, but mind you, if there is any chance of reconciliation, any, then you may want to visit the Plan A/Plan B forum or some of the others. Just a thought.<P>Good Luck and God BLess<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by REJECTED:<BR><B>I consider myself to be a woman of good character with many other good qualities, best of all MORALS!!!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>One of the most difficult aspects of having morals is holding others to standards while having compassion for their flaws. Dana Carvey's <I>Church Lady</I>, with her attitude of superiority, is *not* moral ... she is committing the sin of pride and she lacks compassion.<P>The people with the best morals are the people who first and foremost regard themselves as sinners, and are willing to look inside for sin in unexpected corners of their hearts.<P>The woman who your husband cheated with--do you hate her? She broke up three marriages, meaning she lacks the resolve, courage and understanding to go get a man of her own; she lacks the empathy and morals to leave other women's men alone; and she has never known what it is to be in a committed relationship. Power? Yeah, she's got the same kind of power a runaway train has! Your marriage just happened to stall out on a grade crossing.<P>It's hard to have any empathy for him. And maybe he doesn't care ... perhaps he will never care. So do what you think you must. But when he came home "to do the right thing and basically wrap things up", what kind of a welcome back did he get? <P>Did he get the welcome the prodigal son got, or did he go "in the box" from <I>Cool Hand Luke</I>? Is it any wonder he won't show you his emotions?<P>Remember, he wasn't the only one who said "I do" to the "'till death do us part".

REJECTED,<P>First let me say that this only applies to you IF you are willing to really work on your marriage. That is a question only you know the answer to. If you are willing, then maybe you can start by looking at what exactly your husband sees in this other woman. Are they qualities that maybe you once had but let slip away? You mention her being "strong", are you saying that you may think you are not as "strong" as her? Why would that be? How could you possibly become stronger?<P>I know that you are probably thinking that it is "him" and "his fault" for the mess your marriage is in. And you may well be right. Just keep in mind that you can not control his actions, thoughts or emotions, but you do have full control over yours. If the marriage is worth it to you, then maybe you can look within yourself to begin to change your ways. The one thing I find fascinating is how when one spouse changes in a relationship, the way the other person views that spouse changes as well.<P>Don't misunderstand me, I am not blaming you at all for the mistakes of your husband. All I am suggesting is that if you want to save the marriage and you are willing to do whatever it takes, then maybe the changes can start with you. Plus if the changes are "for the good" then even if your husband leaves, you will still have grown for the experience. You will come out of this a better and "stronger" person.<P>Just some thoughts!<BR>God Bless,<BR>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

I had to reply to Sisyphus' message. I not only welcomed my husband back but was also loving and supportive (just like I'd always been). I listened when he talked about the OW and how he missed her child. It was extremely painful, but it was out of compassion (yes, I have compassion). I never put myself above others as I too am a sinner. One thing I know for sure is that I could never knowingly inflict the sort of pain I received from OW and my husband on ANYONE, including those that have done the inflicting. I am hurt by especially the end of your message, I would have done anything to rebuild my marriage, and took my vows and the sanctity of marriage very seriously. I could go on and mabey I'm taking your post hard, as I am extremely sensitive.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by REJECTED:<BR><B>I had to reply to Sisyphus' message. I not only welcomed my husband back but was also loving and supportive (just like I'd always been). I never put myself above others as I too am a sinner. I am hurt by especially the end of your message, I would have done anything to rebuild my marriage, and took my vows and the sanctity of marriage very seriously.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I had a much longer version of this post written, and then my browser crashed. Today I became curious about the definition of the term "double bind" because I new it meant something like "damned if you do and damned if you don't" but also that it was more complex than that. Look here:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.well.com/user/bbear/double_bind.html" TARGET=_blank>http://www.well.com/user/bbear/double_bind.html</A> <P>I think more than just schizos and borderlines get caught in these. I think only perfect people never do. <P>I think people from abusive families of origin are used to double binds and often think they're caught in double binds when all they really need to do is question the situation ... they won't get carpet-bombed like they think (in other words, normal people often find themselves giving mixed messages, and other normal people use that as a cue to get clarification, not as a reason to short circuit and have a mental meltdown ... if a "normal" person finds that they get hellfire in return for an attempt at clarification, they work out an explanation in their own mind ... they don't question their own mind). <P>My new GF is very sensitive to mixed messages, and uses them as an opportunity to get more detail and get straightened out on things ... people don't give out mixed messages "on purpose" ... they make a snap response (the *right* thing to say) without looking deeper in themselves, and their body language betrays their own misgivings.<P>Those from abusive homes perhaps are less willing or able to touch a potential hot button like this. <P>For instance, XW was from an abusive family (this is a difficult judgment to write for me, but in the final analysis things went on that traumatized her, and I can only characterize them as abuse--although she might also say they made her the "great person" she is). She, at the end of our marriage, said she would "go crazy" or start cutting herself again or kill herself if she stayed in the marriage. I was ready to talk to her, work with her ... where her family of origin would have been scary in the same sort of situation. The one time I did just rage at her, she seemed oddly relieved, we talked, laughed, fell asleep in each others' arms watching sitcoms, and woke up the same way. Then later she said I had "scared" her and she still wanted out.<P>After all this long-windedness, my point would be that no matter how you tried to welcome STBXH back, there were things that you two needed to talk about. If you had been able to *perfectly* do what you say you did, he would *never* have received *any* mixed message; and I think he could have stayed. But I don't think we could ask that of anyone, so I've got to assume he got mixed messages. And wasn't able to bring himself to probe them when he got them--they were opportunities for him to give and receive further assurances, but he couldn't sieze on them. So he just lost it again, and he wants to leave.<P>I'm sorry, but I think that no matter what your words were when you talked to him about missing OW and child, your body language must have fairly *screamed* the opposite (if only because that's the example you cite when you talk about just how far you went for him). He didn't know what to do with that; he just knows he needs to get away from it.<P>I'm sorry it came off like I was *blaming* you, when really my point should have been that the behavior on his part that seems "crazy" is likely better described as "unskilled".

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus:<BR><B>The one time I did just rage at her, she seemed oddly relieved, we talked, laughed, fell asleep in each others' arms watching sitcoms, and woke up the same way. Then later she said I had "scared" her and she still wanted out.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I can sort of relate to this. With my wife, I had to dissolve into tears before she would believe that I had any feelings, no matter what I said. With anger, though...well, let's just say that for me I think that was a <I>real</I> double bind. If I demonstrated anger (by, for example, raising my voice and hitting a nearby wall), she got scared. And if I <I>didn't</I> demonstrate anger, she was convinced that I was burying anger somewhere deep down as a time bomb waiting to go off.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>After all this long-windedness, my point would be that no matter how you tried to welcome STBXH back, there were things that you two needed to talk about. If you had been able to *perfectly* do what you say you did, he would *never* have received *any* mixed message; and I think he could have stayed. But I don't think we could ask that of anyone, so I've got to assume he got mixed messages. And wasn't able to bring himself to probe them when he got them--they were opportunities for him to give and receive further assurances, but he couldn't sieze on them. So he just lost it again, and he wants to leave.<P>I'm sorry, but I think that no matter what your words were when you talked to him about missing OW and child, your body language must have fairly *screamed* the opposite (if only because that's the example you cite when you talk about just how far you went for him). He didn't know what to do with that; he just knows he needs to get away from it.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Careful on the generalizations. Body language may present a mixed message, but it isn't necessarily an "opposite" message. For example, when you say "I want us to get back together and work things out" your body language may say "I'm wary and afraid." Your spouse may certainly <I>interpret</I> your body language as saying "I don't want you back" but that, as you point out, is due to a lack of communications skill on your spouse's part.<P>And in any case, when your spouse is in "the fog" anything you say or do can and will be used against you.<BR>