For everyone out there, I've come to believe that when a spouse says they want out because they need space, want to start over, too much pressure, have something to figure out or really, any excuse they might have is to cover up for the real reason - an affair. Really, how many people leave what was believed to have been good marriages to be alone. I've seen too many relationships, including my own where a spouse said he needed space or time alone. What it really meant was time to pursue another relationship and see how it goes. If it doesn't work, they'll try you back. Don't ever think, "It will never happen to me" Noone is immune. There are too many co-dependent people in the world.

My ex, after our d-day, said affair was not the problem, just a symptom of our problems. Said he just did not want to be married anymore. Funny thing though, one month after our divorce he is marrying OW. Did tell me later that the bit about affair not being that important and was not the real reason for our break-up was a lie along with a whole lot of other lies. <P>He has said that even if this marriage doesn't work out that he will just find someone else - he just does not want to be alone. Sort of sad isn't it?<P>My ex is a classic case of not being able to work on himself, that when the times get tough he runs but has to have someone to run to first before he makes his get-away.

Yes it is just one of the many lies they tell to justify what they are doing. The next one will be they told you lies because they didnt want to hurt you. yeah right, the have doen the most devastating thing to you. they no longer respect you enough to live with you and the lie.<P>As my sister said it is as if aliens have come and sucked their brains out over night.<P>We have heard all the excuses for the affair

Once Bitten,<P>There is a lot of truth in your observation. I read somewhere that we men have a very hard time leaving a marriage unless we have another woman to turn to. It is a hard thing to deal with sometimes in this forum. I don't want to wreck anyone's marriage, or open the door to any more problems than the person is writing about.<P>But I read so many posts where the betrayed spouse has all the information to tell him or her that the spouse has another lover, but just can't seem to accept it. I'm one of them, I knew my ex was cheating for years before I finally accepted it. But the most important thing in my life was alcohol, and I would go to any lengths to protect my alcoholic behavior.<P>Speaking only for my own case, the stuff about needing space, needing time away from me and the kids, about needing to find herself, about feeling smothered in the marriage, was all bs. She was spending that time away from home in a motel room with her sock puppet. Admittedly, I'm prejudiced, but when I read that stuff, I just don't believe it, and immediately suspect that there is another person involved. One of the members did an unscientific survey on a thread here, and in about 90% of the cases, there was another person involved.<P>My ex finally had to admit the affair(s), but she still has never told me the whole truth, the lying still continued, and the logic ran the gamit, from "it was all my fault", to she was somehow doing me a favor by having these trysts with another man. <P>Bottom line was she expected me to love her no matter what she did, and expected to be treated as though it never happened! And she expected me to keep being a husband to her as though her affair wasn't still going on. Her whole family and most of our friends knew she was having an affair, I suppose I should have too.<P>Make a long story short, her best friend's husband was having a knock down drag em out affair, and we started comparing notes. Within a month, we were in a motel too. Looking back on it, I still don't think I would have had the strength to leave the marriage without her to depend on, the affair went on for six years, and yes, I was addicted to her. The affair ended when she suffered a massive stroke and passed away four days later.<P>I also believe if Dr. Harley and the revolutionary ideas he has to save marriages were around at the time, we could have saved our marriage. I think I have made just about every mistake that it is possible to make and paid the price for it. Everything we did to try to save our marriage was all wrong, it couldn't have possibly worked.<P>Sorry for rambling on, but you hit a point that I too believe in.<P>Bumper

I think that someone who is "borderline" can want out of a marriage without having anything else to go to--they have flipped from thinking their spouse is "white" to thinking their spouse is "black", and need OUT RIGHT NOW. <P>If you handle them adroitly over the years you are merely delaying the inevitable, and everything you did over the years is just more evidence justifying leaving you because you've been "fooling them". <P>You have seen "black and white" thinking about others many times through the course of your marriage, and fooled yourself into believing it wouldn't happen to you. But of course it does, eventually. Only a handful of her blood kin are "exempt". <P>And then one day it happens. There is something for which your answer just isn't good enough. And you're *screwed*.

I think this is a bit of the chicken and egg thing. Does the affair start because they are dissatisfied or are they dissatisfied and then start the affair?<P>Here is my best guess on what happened in our case. My stbx didn't like her life. She was working too much, I wasn't paying attention to her, her work schedule didn't allow her enough time to spend with the kids, etc. Now whether these things are true or not, this is how she percieved them. All of them have some truth, but as usual, there are many sides to the story.<P>But I digress. She didn't like her life. Rather than working on the life she had, she decided to get a new one. Now she had some definite ideas of how this life would play out. Something like I will get this new guy, he will make a ton of money, and I will take the kids and ride off into the sunset, living happily ever after. Didn't happen that way. His kicka$$ job lasted six weeks, I am primary custodian, and you don't see too much sun in San Pedro.<P>So now she has a new life. I would imagine that the new one is not any better or worse than the old one. She has different stressors, however, I would imagine the level of stress is the same or greater.<P>I have asked her several times, although not in the past couple of months, whether this whole thing was worth it. And the best answer she can come up with is "I don't know." Very sad.

It's amazing. I was wondering the EXACT same thing just today. How many people actually leave to be alone? I thought (at first) that that was my ex's deal, but then I found out he had a EA. I think if it hadn't been for her, he might have been more motivated to work things out. He was a bit unhappy and she showed him how wonderful the other side could be. My ex went from telling me that he was once head over heels in love with me to saying that he doubted our connection (now that he has found someone with whom he has chemistry). <P>I also think that most people are so conditioned to believe that happiness is derived from who you are with that leaving to be alone is almost unheard of. They must have that safety net. What they don't understand is that when the gloss of that new relationship wears off, they will be right back where they started. <P>Sisyphus is only half right. BOorderline people might want out of the marriage, but what gives them the courage to actually do it is the security of another person to soothe their egos and their conscience. Think about it: look where we are. The betrayed (which I assume most of us are) are alone with our thoughts and demons. We, often by choice, remain alone to deal with the pain. Sometimes it is unbearable. I think that a good number who leave their marriage do not have the mettle to handle their own demons alone . I mean, they left a marriage often times without giving it a fair shot. Do we really expect them to have the strength to sleep, eat, live alone, and face day after day that lonliness?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by gsd:<BR><B> Do we really expect them to have the strength to sleep, eat, live alone, and face day after day that lonliness?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>My husband justified his new romance (2 weeks from the day he moved out) by saying "I told you I don't like to be alone." Like that was supposed to make me feel better or something!<P>He will avoid being alone in his house (with his thoughts) at all costs - the only time he actually is there by himself is when OW has her child (and is not allowed to bring the child around my husband) - and then only to sleep. He goes to his friends, his family, the grocery store, the YMCA, back to work, the local bars, etc - anywhere but the dreaded empty house...that he insisted was better than his 15 year marriage and family.<P>Poor baby. *sarcasm dripping*<P>Lisa<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus:<BR><B>I think that someone who is "borderline" can want out of a marriage without having anything else to go to--they have flipped from thinking their spouse is "white" to thinking their spouse is "black", and need OUT RIGHT NOW.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hey, Sisyphus, what do you mean by "borderline"? Are you talking about BPD or something else?<P>Your description of the black/white switch and need to get out immediately describes my wife to a tee (although there were a few bounces of the switch during the months preceding the eventual establishment of the "black" schema).<P>In my wife's case I am quite confident that no affair was involved. It's not that I believe she is immune, but that's just not where her head was at. And when she moved out, she went to stay with her mother.<BR>