I've been doing a lot of thinking lately about the demise of my marriage. Mine ended because of infidelity. In order to help heal the wounds of this I had to look long and hard at what I contributed to my wife running off. I had to accept that I in fact did play a major role in leaving a void to filled by another. What I have found is...<P>1) I was emotionaly holding back from her, which in turn didn't allow her to feel as closely connected as she needed.<P>2) I was caught in the grips of my own self-centered needs. Cumpulsivly doing things in an obsessive mannor, most of which didn't include her.<P>3) I made dedcisions for the family that didn't include her. I bought a house and manipulated her into agreeing.<P>4) I sttod by as she developed intimate friendships with men. They filled the void that I created.<P>I know it's a hard-[censored] pill to swallow admitting mistakes when we have been betrayed but as I see it, anyone that says they did nothing to create a situation for the ex or stbx to want out hasn't gotten completely honest with themselves. I believe in order to repair the wounds of divorce and be able to have a future healthy relationship one needs to dig deep and find thier part, no matter how small. Else we are destined to find ourselves in the same situation.<P>I know my ex can probably add a few things to my list and I'm sure I'll find more on deeper reflection.<P>So I challenge each of us to get as honest as we can. Maybe we can share some experience with one another and find that strength and hope we need to move on.<P>Bill<BR>

Going to think about this one.<P> I agree with everything you said, but I think my faults are too numerous to list without careful consideration......<P>And, no, that doesn't take away from the fact that he chose to walk away from his family. I know he had choices, and we were not his choice.<P>talk soon<P>Jo

Good post Bill, I totally agree. I am doing the same thing. My list:<P>1. I avoided confrontation at all costs.<P>2. I tried to control all aspects of our life so that exH would not get mad. Tried to keep his life easy.<P>3. I viewed him as basically incompetent with any task that involved finances or planning - could not let him make mistakes<P>4. Finally the big one - I let myself get lazy with myself - stopped caring about me - how I looked, acted etc. It was easier focusing on exH and D than working on me.<P>Don't know how I will prevent this from happening when and if I have another chance at a relationship - can only hope that I learn something in the interim.

1. I put others before him (friends). <P>2. I was so focused on my career I didn't pay attention to his. <P>3. I talked instead of listened. <P>4. I was overbearing when I should have been caring. <P>5. I took him and everything else for granted. <P>6. I worked for the wrong reasons... I thought vacations, a nice house, a nice car, etc.. would be enough.. <P>7. Barrington- good one... I also quit focusing on how I looked- just got comfortable with everything... <P>Ok, so I probably sound like the typical man here, but I am just a woman with a strong personality.. Should we start naming what we perceive as their "faults"- For lack of a better term- also? <p>[This message has been edited by blindsided123 (edited January 21, 2001).]

We all have our faults in our marriage, and we need to look at these for our future relationships.<P>When my H left for OW, he pointed out everything that was wrong with ME but nothing was wrong with him. I took the blame for his infidelity and it made me feel awful and not the woman that I was.<P>Yes my faults were:<BR>Trying to keep everyone happy in our family<P>Being organised and wanting everything to run efficently (Opps that is now called controlling)<P>Our sex life wasnt great I was too tired so we had sex about once a week<P>I no longer pandered to his ego. I was sick of him not making friends and being judgemental of everyone. This was a big LB<P>I was restarting a career and really enjoying it he felt left out. Although my new job did pay for his University Course, which he left me 3 weeks before he graduated What a big THANKS for your support this year.<P>I suppose what I am saying is yes I DID have faults but that is no justification for his and what he has done. I was fully supportive of everything he had done. I am now in my 11th home in 8 years because he wasnt happy in his jobs or whereever he lived.<P>Maybe I need to do some soul searching, or it is to early for me to accept the blame, or is it I have had the blame on me for<BR> 2 1/2 months now I know I will only take about 20% of what went wrong the rest was his justification for the affair

This is a good topic, and one that if we are to heal the best way from this, we have to open ourselves up and ask this difficult question..<BR>1. I was also controlling...wanted it done "right" which was my way.<BR>2. I witheld sex because "I didn't want it". <BR>3. I would be upset with something in my life and blamed him for it at times. <BR>4. I focused my attention on my kids and did not have anything left over for him. <BR>5. I did not like some of his interests, so would not participate with him in them. <BR>6. I did not address with him his drinking...did not want to confront him about it. <BR>Man, what a b**** I was at times!! There were very good times as well in the marriage. But I do agree with the statement that HE choose the affair as his way of coping. Had we both been open about how unhappy we both were, thing wuld have been so much better. <P>------------------<BR>Susan

XH only gave me two complaints, really: <P>1) I was frequently late<BR>2) I didn't keep the house neat enough.<P>I'll agree with those complaints. I'm human. But at least I own a mirror, can look in it, and will admit my humanity.<P><BR>

Jeez--- you always ask those stomach cringing questions don't you??? It's a good thing! I am glad that you do!<P>- In the start of the relationship I was not controlling in the least. He viewed this as uncaring and unconcerned about his well being.<P>- post A (6 years ago) I became controlling beyond belief although it was unintentional. He felt trapped and confined.<P>- I didn't enjoy his work place parties/gatherings. So I would go, more under protest than by free will.<P>- We had compleatly different intrests and I would make a verbal point of letting him know that I did not enjoy doing his with him since he was unwilling to do mine with me.<P>- I would become silent, irritated, and fusterated rather than ask for his help or assistance with things.<P>- I would become cold towards him.<P>- I felt like I didn't fill his idea of the "perfect wife" and I would get fusterated and angry because of it.<P>I know that there are other things, quite a few of them to be honest. But those are the major things that come to mind.

I too can recognize what part I played in him leaving the marriage, however, had he told me what was bothering him, I would have happily worked hard to correct my faults. <P>Sure, once in awhile he mentioned something that bothered him, but then never brought it up again, like it was no big deal. <P>Had he said, Hey, listen, I'm starting to become really unhappy, I'm thinking about leaving the marriage, I'm starting to fall out of love with you...you can rest assured I would have swiftly worked to correct the problem, and to get some counseling for both of us.<P>Instead, he chose to be unhappy for two years, then just suddenly left, not giving me a chance to work through anything.<P>Isn't it strange how a lot of the faults listed by the women are the same? Strong personality, controlling, organized. Isn't strange how usually a man is attracted initially to a woman who is strong and confident and independent, yet later down the line, that is their undoing.<P>I know my husband was married once before, and left her because she was quiet and mousy and not independent, just wanted a husband to take care of her like her dad had taken care of her mother. Then he met me and thought I was great because I was a strong independent woman who was in control of her life. But now he turns on me, hates that I always have to be organized and in control. Now he wants someone more sedate, who does not always say what she thinks, who does not expect the housework and childcare to be split 50/50, who will put her needs last and cater to his ego. <P>As unfair as this is, I would glady do it, if only he would give me the chance. <P>Anyways, back to the purpose of this post, my fault in the breakup, which in anyway does not excuse his responsibility to myself and our daughter to not just walk out the door with no warning, but I would like to take responsibility for my actions.<P>1. At the end of the day, after work, dinner, bath and bed time, never had any time/energy left to devote some one on one attention to him.<P>2. Always had to have housework, laundry & groceries taken care of before we could do anything fun. Basically, chores before playtime. This is how I was raised, and unfortunately, I wasn't very flexible about this.<P>3. Always talking about my day at work first, before asking him about his day, it made him feel like his day was less important than mine.<P>4. Always criticizing him because I did more than my fair share of the housework/childcare.<P>5. I also talked instead of listened.<P>6. I also was too tired for sex often.<P>7. I am a people pleaser, and tried to be the best wife, best mother, best daughter, best daughter in law, best employee, on and on and have the most efficiently run household on the block. But this in turn only made me unhappy and exhausted. <P>8. I blamed him when I tried to quit smoking, when I tried to lose weight. Thought that if only he would support me a little more, I would be able to do it.<P>But...I was also a very good wife in some aspects too, and I don't want to forget that either and only focus on what I did wrong.<P>I always supported his career as the most important, my job was just a job to bring in money, his job was the career. And whenever he wanted to move to another state/city for a new job, I was always more than willing to pack up the whole house, our child, leave friends and family, and wholeheartedly supported the decision. No matter where it was.<P>Now, because of that, I live in a city where I have no family and very few friends, we sold our house, and I am very angry at him for doing that to me. He was unhappy two years ago, why couldn't he have told me then when I was somewhere where I had a support system, rather than have me give up everything to move with him, and then leave me? For that I am very bitter.<P>I still maintain, that in spite of my faults, he had a responsibility to me and our daughter to be honest with me and to seek out counseling prior to just leaving and filing for divorce. <P>I realize that I don't sound very forgiving right now, but it's only been a couple of months. I hope that at some point I can just realize that we all have faults, and we all make mistakes, and the most important thing is to learn from them.

I have no idea what I did--except for tell people, other women that I worked with, namely, about his verbal abuse. (He was jealous, was our primary arguement, and always held onto the belief that I would cheat on him. Of course, there was the arguement about money--we were doing well in those days, but he insisted that we have separate bank accounts because he thought that I would spend uncontrollably--didn't trust me.) He said that I was just trying to get him into trouble when, out of sheer anguish I disclosed me problems to my friends. I did actually get him into trouble once or twice, after a incident of physical violence. I ended up in the hospital, the neighbors saw the cops come to our house. Apparently, this is all my fault.<P>I did bring some emotional baggage into the marriage--I had married 9 months after my divorce to my first husband. I felt a lot of guilt and grief over my children. Then I got pregnant within 4 months of remarriage. He didn't want any children.<P>I asked him to help me around the house, because I worked even longer hours than he did. I didn't see that I ever nagged unreasonably. I quit mentioning it early in the marriage because I didn't want to fight and he saw it as an assault.<P>What I did do, I guess, is that after he completely razzed me, verbally abused me, have a temper tantrums, I would hide in my room, or go out of the house, whatever but I retreated into myself. Then he would come to apologize, I couldn't respond. I wouldn't say or do anything because I was too hurt. He saw that as me being cold.<P>After a couple of years in the army being gone all the time from my kids, I said enough was enough. I loved the army, but I couldn't be a mom at the same time. My son took his first steps when I was in Korea. He said his first words when I was a JRTC. My daughter broke her arm while I was in Korea yet another time, so I figured that I had neglected them enough. My husband agreed to take a job that would allow me to finish up my enlistment and stay home with my little guys for a few years. He got the job, then turned it down. Yes, I was mad for a couple of days.<P>And he was mad at me for being mad at him. And long after I had decided that his happiness was important enough for me to keep my mouth shut and for me to be supportive of him, he continued to be mad. He began sleeping in the other room, yelling at me, telling me what a loser I was, that I was lazy, that I only depended upon him as a mealticket, ect. One day I found a letter in the printer asking for a chance to take the job again, citing that his marriage was over and now he felt that he would have the time and resouces to fulfill it. So, I re enlisted in the army and prepared to leave for a new duty station. That got his attention. He started talking to me again, sleeping with me again, and I thought that all was well. He took his job, and I took mine, and I thought we could meet in the middle somewhere once he got out of school for his job. Wrong.<P>That's when he starting seeing other women--because he insists that I abandoned him. He still says this, regardless of how I try to explain to him the real reasons I did what I did--I was tired of his mouth and I wanted to shake him up. And I wanted to support him, if he wouldn't support me.<P>I really do not think that I did anything very serious to destroy my marriage. I loved my husband more than anything and tried so hard to meet his needs--I really worked at seeking out his needs. I guess what I did do is let him get away with anything he wanted to.<P>There is a huge difference between being emotionally needy and emotionally selfish.<BR>

Okay, I'll play.<P>1. I was, as she put it, always overreacting to everything. If getting upset when she spends bill money going to restaurants with friends is overreacting, guilty as charged.<P>2. I did not pay much attention to her. Won't even try to debate this one. Guilty.<P>3. I hit her. Once. Guilty. After 14 years of emotional abuse.<P>Look, I have my faults. I did plenty to contribute to the demise of the marriage. However, nothing that I did gave her permission or the right to have an affair, move out and abandon her children.<P>I won't make this any longer, however, just an editorial comment. I was willing to do anything to make it work. She was only willing to work if it did not inconvience her.

Great question!<P>1) I thought he was incompetent to handle the day to day things in life and keep promises. Actually, he was, but no man wants you to know it and remind him of it.<BR>2) I grew disinterested in sex-I was a twice a month girl and he was a once a day guy. It wasn't always like this. He grew disinterested in pleasing me and I was working two-three jobs at a time and was tired. Also, what is foreplay and affection again???<BR>3) I didn't build him up when he needed it.<BR>4) I didn't give him his space-he liked privacy and I kept barging in and taking it personally.<BR>5) I never got jealous or acted like I cared when he told me about other girls with crushes on him. Actually, not a bad thing altogether, but it turned out that I should have paid more attention.<BR>6) I believed he would never leave me. <BR>7) I didn't allow him to make mistakes.<BR>8) I was too controlling and judgmental.<BR>9) I wanted an organized and planned life. I wanted a home. He was quite bohemian and had a rebellious, artistic spirit. We just wanted different things and we never really discussed it.<P>10) I never got over some of the resentment I felt for giving things up for him. Another big mistake.<P>I really think I was too strong a woman for him. I do agree that men are attracted and at the same time repelled by independent women. My H said I "emasculated him." I did feel that he wasn't acting like a man throughout our marriage. I just question now whether my expectations were too high for him. <BR>

GSD, <BR>Man, your posts sound a lot like me!! I NEVER thought my X would leave me. Even though we had issues in our relstionship, I felt we could weather the storm, so to say. <BR>The biggest surprise I ever had was when I found him instant messaging to her(I had no idea) and I got a pair of binoculars and started reading it while he was talking to her. <BR>It crushed me.....here my H was professing love to another woman!! Well, I did counseling, did Plan a, Plan B, etc...<BR>The sad part is that he had already decided he wanted out. But, I did all I could, and that is what Dr. H work does teach you, to do all you can so if it doesn't work, you can go on without regrets. <P>------------------<BR>Susan

Wow so much of these posts are the same. Especially the ones from women. Is the problem really ours. Like one of you said we can look in the mirror and see and accept ouselves for what we are. I know my H still is unable to do this, or spend time alone by him self.<P>Reading some of your posts there are extras that I can add but you have said it all. How old were your spouses when they left.<P>I lnow mine had a "midlife crisis" he was about to turn 41.

I certainly think mine also had some kind of midlife crisis as well. He turned to being gone a lot, going to out of town tournaments without asking me to go, staying out late bought a motorcycle, etc. <BR>We just did not communicate our issues to each other much. I know now that was a real mistake. When he did not meet my needs, I just rejected him rather than being direct and telling what I was missing and what I needed. And he did the same. We just ignored/avoided all intimate conversation abot our unhappiness. <P>------------------<BR>Susan

My H claimed that it was nothing I did or didn't do, nothing that I could change. He said just didn't like me. I am sure there were things I could have done differently, but apparently they wouldn't have made any difference. <P>He did say that he couldn't separate his feelings about our financial status from his feelings about me. I guess my biggest mistake was not being able to read his mind and know that he wanted me to go back to work after our sixth child was born, in spite of the fact that he had several times said he didn't really like having the kids in daycare.

Ok, it's my turn. I actually asked my ex months ago to share with me her thoughts regarding our marriage and how I could have been different. She only shared with me the following:<P>1. I did not tell her often enough that I loved her. She thought she always said it first.<BR>2. I wasn't always physically affectionate unless I was "in the mood".<BR>3. We never talked anymore.<P>Now for my list of things I feel that I did to contribute:<P>1. I was not always open with my thoughts and feelings<BR>2. I was not filling her emotional needs to the extent she needed<BR>3. I always heard her, but sometimes I didn't listen<BR>4. I never knew anything was broken so I never worked to fix it <BR>5. I didn't compliment her as much as I could have<BR>6. I took for granted the things she did around the house<BR>7. I allowed myself to fall in a rut, never thinking that she may be unhappy and would ever consider leaving<BR>8. I assumed that if she was unhappy she would tell me. I should have taken it upon myself to engage in more meaningful conversations more often.<P>Well that's my list for now, at least what first pops into my mind. I have yet to find anything concrete with us that couldn't have been worked on and resolved if she was willing, but she was determined to be on her own. I could make a list of the things she contributed to our demise, but even with everything I could list, I never once thought about ending our marriage over them.<BR>

This is a topic that is on my mind every day, every hour of the day. <BR>1) I kept things from him I shouldn't have. I tried to handle any problems that came up so he wouldn't have to worry.<P>2) I to let myself go. (I had really looked good a few years ago but he never even acknowledged all of the hard work I had done so I just gave up.)<P>3) I spoiled him. I never asked him to help me with anything. It was something I thought I enjoyed doing but now it's a real sore point for me. He is now cleaning the house, doing laundry fixing meals ect for OW and her kids. <P>4) I worked evenings and he worked days. We worked it that way for years because of daycare. When the kids got old enough to stay home alone we couldn't afford the huge cut in pay I would have had to take so we just continued it. I was happy with it but he got lonely.<P>5) I had friends and he didn't. Even though I never let my friendships interfere with our time he still felt jealouse of the close bond that I have with my friends.<P>6) affection, for years he never wanted to hol hands, kiss ect. He always said he wasn't brought up that way. So I gave up and got used to not having it. A couple of years ago he started wanting more affection, cuddling ect, I couldn't make myself do it. I think there was alot of resentment there. He wasn't there for me when I needed to be cuddled so why should I. <P>Looking back, my marriage had been falling apart for years but I was just busy to see it. I ? just how much I really loved him or him me visa versa. We just kind of existed and I wonder now how long it would have been before I became restless. I tried to hold on with everything I had but it was to little to late. My X seems happy with OW and maybe things are as they should be. I feel that everything that happens to you in this life happens for a reason and someday I'm sure I will discover why. <P>As for MLC my XH was turning 40 when he had his 1st affair. Even with prozac and counseling he still couldn't shake those restless feelings. <BR><P>------------------<BR>live for today for there may not be a tomorrow

You know, I was actually discussing this with a dear friend, and we did quite a lot of soul searching and being honest with ourselves to come up with how we contributed. I'll share a portion of my thoughts:<P>"Here’s how I contributed, probably starting several years ago, and increasing in intensity as the years went by. I did not maintain my own life and my own SELF—starting way back when my youngest daughter was born. My only connection to the world around me and to adult discussions and grown up socialization was through him. Then, when I “took over” the family restaurant, I started to show that I was a smart, independent lady but I was so focused on being “successful” that I did not consider how my success might feel like a competition to him. I was so bound up and concerned about my youngest daughter and her health, that for years I did not care about my appearance and I wore sweats and looked frumpy when he came home—in other words, I did not stay his sex goddess behind closed doors. <P>When we started our business together, I thought I was helping my make his dreams become a reality, but I think I became his competitor. I was another person to be conquered, like a client, almost. I wanted to be important to him, but I was not a good person to come home to, I did not build him up, I did not tell him how much he meant to me, and I pointed out every little thing he did wrong. <P>Eventually, he left this February, to save himself I think (partially). He had traveled to Utah to install a big, 12 terminal system in Provo, and while he was there, he met the OW. She was fun and interesting and made him feel good about himself, whereas I was a *****y, crabby, lonely wife that found fault with everything. She’s our same age, but I think he felt loved by her and built up, and he felt diminished and unloved by me.<P>I started to read “Relationship Rescue” by Phil McGraw, and for some reason it clicked with me. I got it that in order to “save” the relationship, I’d have to save myself, and there really was not a very defined “me”. I learned that my bad spirits are Fault Finder and Unforgiving Spirit. A Fault Finder means that I seldom lets an infraction slide by; I found myself saying, “If you really loved me, you would have known…”; I often used the words “always” and “never” as in, “You never think of me first”; I would counter attack with criticism when I was criticized; and I was obsessed with getting him to admit he was wrong. I know for a fact, he often felt like I was grinding him down just to get him to admit he was wrong and I was right. An Unforgiving Spirit is consumed with anger and I would explode at the smallest little infraction; I felt bitterness and resentment building and building up; I kept my memory full of all the imperfections in my partner and I remembered all the mistakes and failures he made—furthermore, I brought them up at every opportunity; I held onto every fault and didn’t think I should forgive him because he was not really sorry I just clung to everything and I would never let it go."<P>OUCH! That is a very bitter and painful pill to swallow. Excellent topic, Bill.<P><BR>CJ<BR><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

well, here goes.<P>After much consideration, and the starting of the novel that it would take to list all my/his faults, I've decided it basically comes down to one thing.<P>Support.<P>In my case, when I needed support for a measly 2 years, he wasn't able to give it, couldn't give, didn't want to give it. Whatever. He didn't do it.<P>So I in turn decided he didn't deserve my support and I withdrew from him. Emotionally, sexually, just about every way. Yes I tried to talk to him about it, but he didn't want to hear. He didn't listen.<P>What I have realised now is that it needed just one person to break the vicious cycle. Me or him, it didn't matter who.<BR>If one of us had broken the cycle, the way would have been open to communicate, to show affection, to work on whatever issues there were. To be close again. But someone had to be the bigger person. Neither of us was.<P>His lack of communication skills, his conflict avoidance, my percieved domineering, who worked hardest etc etc all mean jack. Even the fact that I DID talk to him about these issues, and tried to discuss with him how I was feeling all meant jack. I could talk the talk, but I DID NOT walk the walk. I would have, had he met me half way, but he couldn't do that. What I know now is that I should have walked all the way by myself, to demonstrate to him how it could be. And to show him what I meant and how it could be.<P> At the end of the day, we felt there was no support coming from either one of us. We were right. (Of course I'm speaking for him here, and have made some pretty big assumptions on his part) but this is what I believe.<P>If I had've shown him one little bit of support, if I had've walked the walk, I believe he would have shown me a little bit of support back. And we could have gone uphill from there, instead of downhill.<P>Of course, this is all with the benefit of hindsight, and what I have learnt here. Thank God I found this site, and you guys.<P>At least now I have an idea of where I went wrong. It doesn't matter now who was right, who was wrong, who did what or who didn't do what. I HAVE LEARNT.<P>And I will take that knowledge forward with me to my next relationship. And that relationship will be so much better, next time around, because now I can see so much.<P>I'm almost cying with gratitude at the moment, because I have found this knowledge. How many people must be stuck in relationships where they are not happy, and don't know what to do.???????<P>I have worked on me for such a long time now, almost 2 years since D. (well. in May!!)<BR>and I'm so glad I have had this growth.<P>I'm by myself, ie no partner, and have decided to devote this year to myself and my family, and I'm happy about this.<P>I WANT to work some more on me. I'm enjoying learning where I went wrong, because it's all contributing to a better me. That has to be good.?? Doesn't it???????//<P>So, I've ended up writing the book I said I wasn't going to. Sorry about that.<P>It comes down to support. Unconditional support. Which in turn leads to unconditional love. That is maybe my biggest lesson. "Unconditional".<P>I love you guys so much, you have all contributed to this insight that I have found. You have helped me be happy and satisfied with ME. For that I will never be able to thank you all enough. Inner happiness is priceless. As we all know.<P>this will probably last until the next time he does/says something to upset me, and then I will need you guys again. But through it all, I have this newfound knowledge, and I keep getting stronger and stronger with it. These hurts from him get a little less painful every time, because I have accepted me, and more importantly, I have accepted him. The way he is.<P>sorry for the novel.<P>hugs to you all<P>Jo