<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr.X:<BR><B>I have been reading your info for awhile...don't know why you did not do this before....She is playing you like a fiddle...you seem to be the one appologizing for her affair. she does not seem sorry at all...of coarse you want to know who she is calling....her life should be an open book....make damn sure she dumps this jerk or tell her to get the the hell out...Take charge don't be a [censored]...I don't care what the hell she looks like be a man damnit don't let her bang some guy then tell you how to deal with it....she screwed up she should bend over backward for your forgiveness not act like a royal b.i.t.c.h because she got caught.I would get a pi on the OM and sue the hell out of him for alienation of affection...I hate guys like that.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The suing for alienation of affection is a very good idea, mind you I would rather put a PI onto her...<P><BR>Well, she is really really mad, after I told her what I had done, she went ballistic - said I am just totally obsessive about her phone. I have now made up her mind finally, she is going. She would not listen to a word further I said to her, she started throwing things around She said , thanks very much you just want everything, nothing is mine, thats it, you have fimnally done it", "I never even touch your f******g fone, its yours, I wont even answer it"<P>I said to her a few minutes later that I am sorry she feels this way but that I do love her very much - she said "Crap, I am just a possession to you and nothing more, you just want to possess me. Just leave me alone I dont want to talk to you at all"<P>I said I want her to please just be careful and think what she is doing - she said "I know what I am doing, I'm going and thats it" I asked her where to, she said "Who knows it doesnt matter, you dont care anyhow", I said I do very much even though it may not seem evident at all...<P>She just said "I dont want to hear anymore, dont talk to me". <P>She has taken her handbag, cellphone and walked out of the complex. <P>Well, she is home again, (12:30 am) in one terrible stinking mood, I went to look for her, she eventually answered her phone, but would not tell me where she was, I told her this is enough nonsense and its time she came home, she is just acting ridiculous now. She eventually came home.<P>Our son got home before she did, I told him what had happened and why - maybe I shouldnt have, but if she was or is still going to pack up and move out, then at least he is prepared.<P>Our son said to me maybe I should try and tell her that to prove to her that I love her, I will not bug her, phone her, or check on her at all for a month at least and then she can make up her mind. As I said to our son, everyone I have spoken to have said exactly the same thing - I have the right to know where she is what she is doing and who she is phoning. I also told him that in no way am I trying to poison him against his mother, she loves both of them very much, it is me that she has the problem with.<P>I know, maybe I shouldnt have loaded this onto him, he has enough on his shoulders, but he saw how upset I was when he walked in and when he asked where she was, I just told him what had happened.<P>When she got home, I went to talk to her, told her that I do love her, even though she may think I am mad and have lost my head, she just snapped at me and told me she is not interested in talking. I ignored that and said to her, the choice is hers if she wants to go I cannot stop her, but it will not stop me loving her, she said "Yeah, right, its more like possession, thats all"<P>I then said to her fine, to prove that I do love her she is free to go if she wants to otherwise I will not bug her anymore or phone her anymore, or do any checking up, I will keep my distance and she can go where she likes and do what she wants, the choice is hers.<P>I kissed her goodnight and went downstairs. <P>This is going to be very very difficult to keep my distance as I do love her tremendously and just itch to have a hug or a kiss. When I came home tonight, she was lying asleep on the sofa, in her jeans and a sleeveless t-shirt, she looked so lovely and attractive that it took all my might not to go and give her a big hug. But if I have to do it to prove to Ave what I have said then I will just have to do it and deal with my frustrations out of her way.<P>A counsellor again - maybe - I will go and speak to the doctor, he has a plan where he may be able to organize a psychoanalyst that is covered by the medical scheme. It is just that I have had so much time off work with doctors lately that I can see they are getting a bit fed up with me.<P>I wont even think of mentioning her phone again to her, or even mentioning that her actions are making me feel insecure - that will just make her feel guilty again and lash out at me.<P>Lets see how tomorrow goes. <P>Last chance, if she goes, then she goes, if she doesnt well then we will see.......<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kevan:<BR><B> The suing for alienation of affection is a very good idea, mind you I would rather put a PI onto her...<P><BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So again here I've backed down to a certain extent. I said to her<BR>yesterday afternoon when she came home at 6pm - that life is too short<BR>(she said yes, you dont have to tell me that) and we are not getting any<BR>younger, we shouldnt be going thru this, we should be enjoying our time<BR>together, not doing this to each other all the time. I said to her I am<BR>sorry for everything I have done wrong to her in the last 18 months and<BR>really want to forget it all and get back together and go on, she said<BR>"Well we will just have to take it one day at a time" - basically saying<BR>to me that she doesnt trust me to just forget it all and I will have to<BR>prove this to her. Here I was hoping for possibly a return apology of<BR>the same nature as what I gave her, but no ways, so I guess I am really<BR>the one in the wrong here, even though it is her that has deceived me over the last 2 years..........<P>I asked her then does she really love me, she looked at me with tears in<BR>her eyes and said what a stupid question....<BR>I then said to her that my whole problem is that I just feel very<BR>insecure about what has been happening, she answered straight back,<BR>"Well how do you think I feel, I feel just as insecure" Same story<BR>again, always defensive - or am I again just missing everything?<P>We went down to the pub for dinner last night. I raised my glass to her<BR>and said here's to a new start, she smiled a bit and said "Yes, no more<BR>checking up on me" I answered her and no more nonsense from you, her<BR>face and attitude changed straight away to one of anger. I just ignored<BR>it.<P>I have really got to find someone to talk to her and get thru to her, I<BR>amnot out to get her but need her to fully understand wwhat she is doing<BR>to us with her attitude and obstinacy and why I feel the way I do, I<BR>just cant take it anymore....<P>I have never seen her so upset as she was on Friday night, she threw the<BR>ironing board across the lounge, broke a wineglass, then when she was<BR>cleaning it up, threw the vacuum cleaner down the passage on the<BR>tiles....<P>I guess then it is all my fault and I am to blame for it all and am just<BR>not seeing the picture from her point of view - I just dont know<BR>anymore.<P><BR>Everyone says I must get back to counselling - I am sorry this may also sound obstinate, but I have had a large amount of counselling from various sources in the last 8 months - enough for me to know, THAT IT IS HER THAT NEEDS THE HELP, GUIDANCE AND COUNSELLING MORE THAN ME, but she just refuses to even think about it - it runs in her family - -everything is always "secretive and private"<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kevan:<BR><B><BR>Everyone says I must get back to counselling - I am sorry this may also sound obstinate, but I have had a large amount of counselling from various sources in the last 8 months - enough for me to know, THAT IT IS HER THAT NEEDS THE HELP, GUIDANCE AND COUNSELLING MORE THAN ME, but she just refuses to even think about it - it runs in her family - -everything is always "secretive and private"<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You know, believe it or not, I DO NOT WANT TO GET DIVORCED, I DO BELIEVE IT CAN BE WORKED OUT, EVEN IF IT MEANS SHE GOES BACK TO HER MOTHER IN SOUTH AFRICA FOR HOW LONG SHE NEEDS

kevan- I think you are getting good advice here, but I had to jump in. The description you've provided of your wife matches what I've been dealing with w my wife since Sept/ Oct.Have you read Dobson's "Love Must be Tough"? I think a strategy to consider comes from this book.<BR> My wife was very distant and VERY cold. I hadn't found the MB website yet and I didn't respond well. I think when there's an om in the picture it's easy for the ws to see you in an unfavorable light. I tried, like you, to approach her in a variety of ways, all w a central theme. I love you w all my heart, let's keep our great family together, why are you doing this, all variants of the pleading thing. Wife did not respond well to this at all, just w increased hostility. <BR> I found MB in Feb. and tried plan A. I did not get the results I wanted.I started w Steve Harley in April, kept up plan a, and employed some of the distance described in "Love ...Tough". And I began to see results.<BR> Now these aren't the results I had hoped for, but I cannot argue w progress. I feel very strongly that the key lies in a good plan a ( establishes a "foundation",redirects your focus) and in employing some distance.I think ws must percieve you as "strong" not needy;and space will help w that. I have also read repeatedly that you cannot recover while your w is still in the affair. Depositing in her bank is difficult, if not impossible. Love her in a way that she will accept, and focus more on you. I know you feel you've had enough counselling(sp?), but I would highly recommend Steve Harley.At least to review your strategy and help define the way to go forward.<BR> I also found that I could feel better about me (just a little) when I stopped giving her all those things of value that she did not want.I was doing many of the things for her that you describe. Steve had said to me, are you loving her the way she wants or the way you want? What would get you closer to your objective?<BR> Sorry for a disjointed post;I do feel I know what a painful, painful place you're in.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by Family Man (edited June 10, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Family Man:<BR><B>I was doing many of the things for her that you describe. Steve had said to me, are you loving her the way she wants or the way you want? What would get you closer to your objective?<BR> Sorry for a disjointed post;I do feel I know what a painful, painful place you're in.<P>[This message has been edited by Family Man (edited June 10, 2001).]</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Tough Love - yes, I have read some of it, believe it or not, this horrible divorcee friend of my wife's gave her osme printouts of Dobson's book, even before I found out about the A - why, I dont know - my wife was upset when I found it and approached her with it.<P>This is one reason why Isaid to her on Friday night - if she wants to go, she must go, but she must just be sure she is thinking clearly and knows what she is doing.<P>I have never seen her so mad in my life before - she threw the ironing board across the lounge, broke a wineglass, was slamming every door in the house, thre the wireless phone across the room, when she was cleaning up the broken glass - slammed the vacuum down the tiles in the passage.....<P>Yes, I softened up again this weekend, but will be keeping my distance from now onwards - not so mcuh pampering and siding up to her - we have said we will have a new start - I am also watching her very carefully.<P>No my heart is still hurting very very much, but did realise onFriday, if she was going to leave, then it didnt really seem that bad - we will see how it goes...<P>Am I giving her the love I want or giving her the love she wants and needs - evry good question as she will just not talk about it, I have asked her so many times to tell me what I amdoing wrong and what she wants me to do - I either egt no answer form her or just "Just drop it, I've heard enough and dont want to discuss it anymore"<P>All that she is mad about is me "checking " up on her - thus basically not trusting her I guess - the "checking" thing comes up everytime - but what the h** do you do when she is constantly so evasive...........<P>I wish I had access to the money to hire a PI to watch her for a few weeks, but she sees exactly what goes out all our accounts.<P>Maybe she is being so difficult because as she says she is being provoked by me, I dont know - maybe this is just an excuse too..<P>One thing I know for sure this absolutely sucks, did I really cause so much wrong in our marriage to be treated like this, go through torment for 6 months wondering if she was having an affair, have my son find out, her refusing to give up her friendship with OM, my kids getting so invloved, me being blamed for everything that was wrong, going thru utter torment trying to make it all right again, counsellors, doctors, anti-deps, being treated like dirt, being treated like I WAS THE ONE THAT DID ALL THE WRONG, and then just expected to forget it all happened, go on as normal, but not get any intimacy from her at all, then when I ask a few simple questions about where she has been after work, get my head bitten off and be told I am treating her like a child...<P>Yes, this sucks and I would wish it on my worst enemy - I would rather face the death of a close family member - even her, than rather face this again in my life. It has been the worst experience in my life and even more traumatic than migrating and moving my whole family to the other side of the world.<P>I hope if there is anyone out there who has deceived their partent and is acting in the same way, reads this and wakes up.<P>Thank you everyone for your support.<P>It just feels like I have lost and wasted two years of my life and not completely due to my wrongdoing.........<P>This is very very cruel...<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> <B> <BR>So just on 12 months since my wife was 'discovered' in the park kissing it up. 6 months since she accepted a Christmas gift from her lover AFTER THE AFFAIR WAS SUPPOSED TO BE OVER ...<P>And, guess what - still no intimacy, not even a voluntary kiss from her....<P>This is very very cruel...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>With all this now still going on between my wife & myself - I often sit and think, when I am in a bad mood and feeling this anger rush in again - maybe I should also go out and have a try and see what it is like to make love to another woman????<P>If she has had the opportunity to go and find out for the first time in her life what its like to make love to someone else, besides the virgin male she married, then why cant I too?<P>Bad attitude, hey - this is the same as saying, well my dear wife, seeing that you have had an affair and had the chance to find out what it is like to make love to someone else, then why shouldnt I???<P>I was feeling so angry again last night - just at the thought that she went out with him early last year with full intent of climbing into bed with him - and then bawling her eyes out the next day, telling me it wasnt what it looked like, and she didnt want to ruin anyone's marriage, making passionate love to me two nights in a row, and then still going ahead and continuing the affair and ending up screwing him anyway. HOW DO I GET THIS HURT OUT OF ME?<P>It would have been bad enough if I had just found out that they were having an affair, but after being lied to me like this, it makes it all that more difficult to get over this.<P>Yes, I keep on blaming him for climbing into her pants, but it is obvious she was just as willing to see what he had in there, just waiting for her - the ***** - sorry this sounds very coarse, and please dont take personal offense to this - the main reason I am now still so upset over it all IS HER DAMN HESITANCE FOR INTIMACY AND CLOSENESS.<P>It could be very possible, I know that, if I was put in a position where I was tempted right now - who knows what may happen - I wonder if she realises this?<P>Another thing, she is putting on more and more weight - quite ironic, last year by this time she was her slimmest she had ever been since we got married - but no effort this year at all - yes maybe it is an indication that things have cooled down with the fat oaf - but then again - I am sure a few pounds in bed wouldnt make any difference to him anyhow - he is so big and overweight, he would most probably enjoy the bit of extra cushioning.<P>It is quite obvious that the "affair" was already in full swing - at least the emotional side of it, while I was away in Quebec early last year - it almost as if she couldnt wait for me to get back - then jump at the chance of climbing into his pants - at least that way she didnt feel guilty that she was "deceiving" me while I was out of town.<P>I know that MarriageBuilders preaches that the hurt party should just do their best and "hang in there" while the wayward spouse gets their life back together - but, hell, are we not allowed ot have feelings too and expect some type of affection?<P>It is all fine and well that the deceived party should fully understand the trauma and guilt that the wayward spouse is going thru, "withdrawing" from the affair, but are we just expected to "ignore our emotions and needs" while this is going on? Are we really expected to just "grin and bear it", make as if we are happy with life all the time?<P>As soon as she can see that I am feeling a bit down or angry becauseof something that has triggered off an emotion or memory, she gets her back up immediately.<P>I am finding this very difficult to deal with...<P>How do you deal with a person that just wants to "ignore" what is going on, ignore her spouses feelings (I suppose mainly through her feelings of guilt) and just go on with life, as long as the spouse she has just hurt doesnt expect her to be "intimate" with him?<P>THERE IS A LADY OUT THERE POSTING WITH THE NOMEDE PLUME OG OLGJMJ - I HOPE YOU READ THIS AND REALISE WHAT TORMENT IS LIKE....<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kevan:<BR><B> <P>How do you deal with a person that just wants to "ignore" what is going on, ignore her spouses feelings (I suppose mainly through her feelings of guilt) and just go on with life, as long as the spouse she has just hurt doesnt expect her to be "intimate" with him?<P><BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hey, I at least got a phonecall from her at work today - but the only reason was to make sure I had submitted my expenses...<P>We are having a difficult time at work with the company downsizing - many people have been laid off...<P>So, same old story again tonight..<P>I got home before her tonight - 6:30 pm and no sight of her.<BR>No phonecall beforehand, nothing.<BR>Then 5 minutes later, a phonecall - she "had been for a swim", can I please turn the pot on on the stove with the meat in it.<P>Then she wonders why I get upset - I phone her every time I am going to be home late. But if I have to mention something like this she gets mad.<P>Well, at least she approached me to kiss me hello - rather hesitantly, but nevertheless.<P><BR>When she came home I did my best to just act "normal" - a few minutes later she says "Well, are you peed off because I went for a swim?" - but with such a look in her eyes - almost ready for a fight, ready to challenge me as soon as I had anything to say - I just said no and ignored it.<P>So again, same old story, "pleasant, courteous" talk all night. <P>I said to her tonight during dinner how difficult it is at work with all the layoffs, how low the morale is and then said to her "But dont worry I will be a good boy this time. I wont end up a nervous wreck like last time - so I wont cause you any stress" (This of course was one of her many excuses for the affair - She needed someone to 'lean' on - she wanted a husband that was a "man", not a nervous wreck)<P>She snapped at me straight away "Oh, stop that crap, are you just trying to be funny"<P>Dinner finished - watching TV - falls asleep.<P>Bedtime, I go shower, she goes upstairs to bed - I finish showering, she asks, well arent you going to sleep upstairs in the bed tonight - I said no, because I know she will not sleep with my snoring, and she needs her sleep.<P>Then I just said to her "All I am looking for is a kiss and a hug, that would make a big difference, thats all I was looking for last night too, you know" - not a word from her. <P>She got into bed, I went and kissed her goodnight, expecting maybe that she would say, come have a cuddle for a few minutes, but no, just a goodnight kiss and thats it, I left the bedroom and came downstairs.<P>Do I have to beg for her mercy now, because SHE had the affair, and she feels so guilty now, and she feels she is not good enough for me (yes, she has told me this) and now feels so difficult to show me love?<P>I have tried everything I can, believe me - but still this distancing - what more do I do?<P>She wont go to a counsellor, wont talk to anyone about it, just wants to pretend as if it never happened - well at least expects me to - but she doesnt want to get close to me - oh, yes, maybe if I ask for a hug or a kiss, I may be lucky depending on her mood.<P>And still her cellphone account gets sent to her work address, not to our home address - and she now expects me to trust her completely again? She just gets mad when I even mention it... I so very nearly demanded that she give me a copy of her last 5 months phone logs last night.<P>Anybody wonder why I still feel suspicious of her goings-on?<P>HOW LONG DOES THIS GO ON FOR - AM I EXPECTED TO JUST SIT BY AND WASTE ANOTHER YEAR OF MY LIFE WAITING FOR HER?<P>Yes, she tends for the home, besides working full-day, cooks most evenings even though I suggest very often that she takes a break. <P>I have asked her many times if we could invite friends around for a meal - everyone has asked us to their homes and it is quite obvious that some reciprocation would be nice - but no, she says she just doesnt have the inclination for it - then she wonders why her best friends are a bit cool with her? She is now finding excuses that they dont like her anymore.<P>I have even written a letter to her explaining my feelings (last time I went away) and my need to know what has happened (a very good friend found an excellent letter for me at the <A HREF="http://www.dearpeggy.com" TARGET=_blank>www.dearpeggy.com</A> website) - but not even a word from her about the letter - I have been home for over 2 weeks now...<P>Anybody out there have some suggestions?<BR>

Kevin<BR>I am sad to read your posts and that this is still going on. It sounds as if you are close to a nervous breakdown. Do you realise love is a 2 way thing and you are getting nothing at the moment. You need to start looking out for yourself. I think maybe you should think about leaving this woman. I know what it feels like I was in the place that you are for 3 months and knew I couldn't do it anymore. But when I told H it was over he changed. Well that lasted 4 months, it never really helped me over come the way that he had treated me. After the 4 months he became the B&^*%D that he was before. So I filed for divorce, the hardest thing I've ever had to do. But I looked at it this way: was he the person that I loved or was I trying to get him to change back to who I thought he was. I know that I don't love the person that he is now. He is drinking, gambling womaniser. Your wife is a lying cheating 'maniser'. That is truth. You cannot change her, I really think that you have given this a lot of chance and she is not changeing. She doesn't sound like a very nice person and I wonder do you really love the way she is now, because that is who she is and she may never change back again. I want you to look out for you now. <P>Quote: At any moment your life is exactly the way that it is. You are the way you are and the people in your life are exactly the way that they are. This is true whether you like it or not.<P>Quote2: To have a fear lose its power, you need to do the opposite of resisting. You need to be willing for the fear to happen. You don't have to like it, just be willing.<P>

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Pantha:
<strong>Kevin
I am sad to read your posts and that this is still going on.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Well, believe it or not, we are still together - although not very happily. I think the final break is coming very soon. <p>But, before that happens, from a "discussion" with my wife last night I need to say the following: (This is true at least in her eyes):<p>I am writing a letter of apology.<p>I am apologizing to you for every bad word I have said about my wife. I have now realized that it has been my fault all along - everything that has happened - through my own selfishness and insensitivity.
I have always left all the decisions in our life up to her and have taken a back seat. I thought it was to give everyone what they wanted and I ended up just getting lazy and letting her make all the decisions in our lives. Nearly everything in our lives I have left up to her to make the decisions on - even up to where we go over weekends and holidays etc. and what we have bought and what we havent - so I only have myself to blame for what has happened in our marrigae and no-one else.
I am sorry for giving you the wrong idea all along that it was her that had hurt me - I have been hurting her for the last I dont know how many years without fully realizing it even though she has been trying to tell me so all along.
We made an agreement when we came to the country we are now living in at first to stay a year, if we couldnt settle we would go back to our home country. We then extended it for another year because of finances etc. We then decided to stay until we got our citizenship and then go back after that, as she really wants to look after her mom.
I have been insensitive to this and have put the kids interests before her and our marriage. The result being that the kids have got everything at the sacrifice of our marriage.
I am not saying this sarcrasticly at all but being very open and honest about it and admitting that I have done wrong in all of this. We should never have come to this country as it has just caused more problems than anything else.
It has been through my stubbornness and insensitivity and selfishness that things have ended up the way they are and on-one else's fault.
Yes, it has very stupidly taken me all these years to actually realize this and I have no reason to feel hurt by what she has been feeling as I have gone against her wishes. I have only put my feelings first in all of this the last few years.
My apologies for leading everyone down the wrong path and making out that everyone else was at fault and not me.
I have thus got us in this mess and to take the children out of here would now do a lot more damage than if we had gone back to SA after a year, but I was foolishly thinking only of finances and too scared of losing what we have.
I have depended solely on her to run the home and the finances of which she has done an excellent job and just lived in my own selfish world of my career and as a result ended up a nervous mess.
Even though she has supported me through a lot of our problems here and stood by me while I was in a mess, I have just taken advantage of all of it just for my own good and I thought for the children.
I have just expected too much of her and shirked my responsibilities in our marriage. With the result that there has also been insufficient discipline in our home and the children have done what they please, not what we feel they should be doing. I have been too soft on them.
I cannot stop her from going back home - I have hurt her deeply enough that I must not expect her to want to let me try again and put these wrongs right again.<p>Whether or not she has been resistant to stop seeing OM does not seem to count in her eyes, as she feels that everything has come back to this one fact of my insensitivity in our marriage.<p>I guess putting our children foremost in our marriage was not really the best thing to do? <p>Dont worry though I am now fully prepared to continue life without her. I know in my heart that it has not been all me at fault.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Pantha:
<strong>Kevin<p>
Quote: At any moment your life is exactly the way that it is. You are the way you are and the people in your life are exactly the way that they are. This is true whether you like it or not.
</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Can you believe that my wife actually threw a tantrum when she read the message above, which I copied to her father and my sister?<p>She says I have NO right to "invade her privacy".<p>She locked herself in the bathroom was a bottle of sleeping pills - I forced the door open and had to wrestle these away from her.<p>I told her to NEVER play that trick on me again.<p>So, what does a man do when he finds out that his wife is still seeing OM 14 months after d-day?<p>My daughter's best friend saw the two of them together two weekends ago while I was out of the country.<p>They were at a fishing village close to our home that we frequent, BUT it is far from where he lives.<p>My wife tries to tell me that it was a "chance encounter" ????? Next joke.<p>
She has now not only shamed my son, who was the one to discover them last year, but has now shamed my daughter too, who was very upset that her best friend had to ask her these awkward questions.<p>I think it is definitely now time for her to leave our home.

Kevan- Your story is very similar to mine. My d-day was in January 2001. Your wife has treated you the same way mine has treated me. She continues to have an EA and PA with the OM to this day. Itried everthing to get her to come back to me but she never did. We have been married 23 years. <p>I think what you want is the wife that she used to be. I wanted the same thing for 9 months but now have to realize that she has changed. Her affair has been ongoing for over 2 years. I finally realized that I had to take care of myself first and understand that I cannot control what other people do. Her getting upset about you wanting to know her whereabouts is only because she still is seeing the OM and does not want you to be aware. <p>Kevan, it takes two to have a marriage. you cannot do it all yourself. I realize that now. Most people cannot understand that I stayed with her as long as I did. Sometimes I wonder myself. We all just want things to be "right". We want the good old times back. Well, we have to realize that people change and we cannot control taht this happens.<p>Kevan, from what I read i feel that you are a decent person and deserve much better. If you leave her consider it her loss and not yours because it truly is. You have your own life to live. It is the hardest thing that you have to do but it may be neccesary. You cannot live the way things are now can you ? How long do you have to wait for someone to change. That change would have to be really significant for your relationship to be better. I waited forever for my wife to change back to who she use to be but it never happened.<p>My wife has left me and I have our two children who she rarely sees. My teenage daughter has felt abandoned by her mother for years and won`t even speak to her she is so angry and feels unloved. I feel my wife has totally screwed up my life and this makes me very angry. The most important thing I have to do is release her and get on with my life. I know it will be painful going thru the divorce but I truly believe lif e will get better in the future. Most everyone tells me that and I have to believe it. God has a plan for ALL of us. You need to let Him deal with your wife. Trust me he will. This can take a load off your shoulders.<p>I am sorry to tell you something that you do not want to hear. I was told this for the longest time and would never let go and kept waiting for her to come back to me. I wanted that affection so bad just as you did but it never came. As I said you deserve better and you will have it again sometime in the future. You just need to stand up and look out for yourself.This is for YOU!

We are all very much in the same spot. I have have let go and truly don't want to reestablish the marriage I had before. It was three years of dealing with multiple affairs and a wife that was only "out for me". A marriage must be so much more then what we are all dealing with on this site.
Kevan. You need to back off a bit and give her distance, you are becoming to compulsive and it is having the wrong effect. What ever you do unless her affair ends you will not be able to reconnect with her.
You need to start working on yourself and your children "Now". You need to protect yourself and be ready for a D. You have children and they need you. Start putting distance between you two.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by adamS:
<strong>
You need to start working on yourself and your children "Now". You need to protect yourself and be ready for a D. You have children and they need you. Start putting distance between you two.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Thank you Adam and thank you Scott.<p>After her last outburst last weekend and her resistance to see the big picture, whether these are just "casual" meetings or not.<p>I have told her as far as I am concerned it is over. It is only now a matter of time until I can find some suitable accommodation for myslef, although I do still feel I shouldnt be the one moving out, as I didnt have the affair, even if I was somehow to blame for some of it.<p>We are now living together simply for financial reasons only.<p>I know what I have to face and I know it is not going to be easy.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by adamS:
<strong> You need to protect yourself and be ready for a D. You have children and they need you. Start putting distance between you two.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>
I should really start a new thread - NO, I DONT WANT HER ANYMORE - should be the title.<p>Well, can you believe after all this time - still not much progress.<p>I have now been playing hardball - but STILL she has the same attitude?<p>Its all about HER hurt, HER feelings.<p>Some things she has said lately:<p>Well, **** happens for a reason you know.
So whats wrong with talking to him now and then.
You just wont listen to me will you.
Why cant we go out - you go out with the people at work (which I do for business reasons) why cant you now take me out for a pub meal.
It is definitely all centered around HER wants.
Ther has been a lot of "I DONT WANT" and "I WANT" and "I WILL NOT" too.<p>She is still witholding her cellfone accounts and bills from me - after nearly 2 years now - I have tried to reason with her about this in may ways, we have had many fights about it - still she doesnt get the picture. "Why should I let you see them, it is my personal phone and business, you tell me everything you have told your sister, give me all those emails where you have slandered me first"<p>She is in no position to bargain or set up conditions. It is thru her stubbornness and unwilingness that I have gone elsewhere for assistance and guidance.<p>Last weekend she got completely drunk because I would not take her out. Ended up getting sick all over the sitting-room floor. And then, in her drunken stupor - still says to me "This is all your fault, get your filty hands off me"<p>I gave her this letter last week:<p> March 5, 2002.<p>From today onwards, I will be limiting any conversation to:
The general running and upkeep of the home
The wellbeing and upbringing of our children
Financial matters
Social interaction with our common friends and outings with them
Housework
I will tell you when I will not be on time for meals<p>I am not prepared to:
Discuss our personal relationship
Factors affecting our personal relationship<p>I will:
Act with courtesy and reasonableness in front of the children and in company ? friends and otherwise<p>I do not expect:
To be thanked for any housework I do, or chores related to the running of the home.
Any social interaction besides that which I have mentioned above<p>It would be appreciated if you could please provide all your Cell Phone accounts and call listings by the end of this week.<p>You may ask my reasons for this ? I feel I have made myself sufficiently clear already.<p><p>
CAN YOU BELIEVE IT<p>After all this, she still asks me today if we can go out for a pub meal tonight, because I went out for a business dinner on Thursday?
BUT she went out with a girlfriend last night..<p>I said to her well, if you want to go out, find someone to go with us - her answer "Why should we do that?"<p> SHE totally ignores what I say to her <p>SO<p> HOW do I PLan B without leaving home? <p>[LIST]<p>She refuses to move out - says this house is in both our names.
I dont see why I should move out - I am the one who has been trying to put it back together all along - but have now realized it will only be under HER conditions.
We are not in a financial position to be able to run two homes - as I know my son would want to go with me if I moved out.
I have no further interest in working it out with her - we are quite obviously incompatible - yes difficult to face after 23 years of marriage.
I have ALWAYS done my best to give her whatever I could and done my best to be reasonable - she is just unsatisfiable.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by kevan:
<strong><p>
I have no further interest in working it out with her - we are quite obviously incompatible - yes difficult to face after 23 years of marriage.
I have ALWAYS done my best to give her whatever I could and done my best to be reasonable - she is just unsatisfiable.</strong><hr></blockquote><p>So may 2002 already and I still havent left - but not long to go now - things have NOT improved that much - I stay away from home until late every night - of course she is now mad about this as I am not there to "help her" - never mind any thought of helping what I was going thru the last 2 years?
NOW - "Why cant WE just put this all behind us?" "Why cant WE start again?" - Yes, of course now that she has fully realized that I am willing to walk away from all of it she has changed her tune - but still no 100% guarantee that she has broken it off completely?<p>I still get the answer from her "Whats a few phone calls? We Are still friends, he was a verygood friend to me"<p>NOW she is denying half the things she told me in the first place? "Oh, it was just a flirtation, thats all" - Easy to just brush it off after her son caught her kissing in the park (she lied to me on that one too - saying they were holding hands).
Even easier to brush off after her daughters best friend saw her out with OM in November while I was out of the country?
How about just brushing off the fact that despite her telling me "Its all over" that there were still calls on her cell phone On New Years Day to him?<p>Now I am told I must put it all away and look to the future for us? But she still doesnt want to go for counselling or has made any effort on her own to go?<p>She ended up in hospital a few weeks ago from a mysterious pain in the groing that no doctors or no tests could diagnose and find the cause?<p>This last weekend she spent the whole weekend away from home as she "Thought it was better to have a weekends break so that we didnt fight?"
Well, good for her - she can have many more and she is going to have many more when I leave for good.<p>I am now of course being accused of ill-treating and mis-treating her because I am ignoring her, sleeping in separate rooms, and locking my door at night so that I can have some peace?<p>She has physically barred me on many occcasions from leaving the house when I needed to get out and away from her.<p>AND NOW - friends are questioning me and asking me am I really doing the right thing by leaving?

" am I really doing the right thing by leaving? "<p>Anwer: Yes<p>You have a marriage in name only. It is obvious from your wife's actions that she cares very little for your feelings. Her unwillingness to stop her contact with the OM and go for marriage counselling confirms that there is no respect for you or her marriage.

<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by kevan:
<strong>I stay away from home until late every night - of course she is now mad about this as I am not there to "help her" - never mind any thought of helping what I was going thru the last 2 years?
NOW - "Why cant WE just put this all behind us?" "Why cant WE start again?" - Yes, of course now that she has fully realized that I am willing to walk away from all of it she has changed her tune - but still no 100% guarantee that she has broken it off completely?<p>I still get the answer from her "Whats a few phone calls? We Are still friends, he was a verygood friend to me"<p>NOW she is denying half the things she told me in the first place? "Oh, it was just a flirtation, thats all" - Easy to just brush it off after her son caught her kissing in the park (she lied to me on that one too - saying they were holding hands).
Even easier to brush off after her daughters best friend saw her out with OM in November while I was out of the country?
How about just brushing off the fact that despite her telling me "Its all over" that there were still calls on her cell phone On New Years Day to him?<p>Now I am told I must put it all away and look to the future for us? But she still doesnt want to go for counselling or has made any effort on her own to go?<p>She ended up in hospital a few weeks ago from a mysterious pain in the groing that no doctors or no tests could diagnose and find the cause?<p>This last weekend she spent the whole weekend away from home as she "Thought it was better to have a weekends break so that we didnt fight?"
Well, good for her - she can have many more and she is going to have many more when I leave for good.<p>I am now of course being accused of ill-treating and mis-treating her because I am ignoring her, sleeping in separate rooms, and locking my door at night so that I can have some peace?<p>She has physically barred me on many occcasions from leaving the house when I needed to get out and away from her.<p>AND NOW - friends are questioning me and asking me am I really doing the right thing by leaving?</strong><hr></blockquote><p>Your W is still carrying on with her A but does not want to loose you because OM can not provide her with the other EN's like financial support and family support. She is what we call a cake eater.<p>No S has the right to physically prevent the other S from leaving their house. Don't allow her to do this to you. The next time she tries to physically barr you from leaving the house, call the police and have them arrest her for spousal abuse and use this to get a restraining order so that she won't be allowed back into the house. Do you think she wouldn't do the same to you if your roles were reversed?<p>Since she refuses to stop contacting OM and get into MC, the future for your M looks very dismal indeed. Have you consulted with the Harley's?<p>Joe

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TooMuchCoffeeMan:
Since she refuses to stop contacting OM and get into MC, the future for your M looks very dismal indeed.
Joe[/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dismal? Its over.

She has Borderline Personality Disorder.

Total Self-denial.

I need to make a life for myself too. A SANE one.

I was laid off from work a few weeks ago, still haent found anything. A soon as I get a job I am leaving her.

Kevan:

My wife is a cake-eater too. I told her she can get counseling or leave. She left. I gave her the beater car and cut off her off the joint checking and credit card. She says "What am I going to do?" I tell her she made this bed so now she has to sleep in it. I still love her and if she want to come back (seek couseling, rehab, etc.) I will welcome her back.

In the interim, I am seekind counseling, etc. to get my head on straight.

God has a purpose for marriage. Being a doormat is not one of them.