My dilemma:<br>I would like to have a bachelor party, she does not want me to. Not even Topless bars.<br>I feel that this is a ritual of passing. Don't want to touch, just look, drink, have fun and be with my friends. I love her so I would give it up if I had to, but I also don't want to resent her for something that I feel I missed out on and only happens once.<br>Does anyone have any ideas on creative compromises?

If you loved her so that you would give it up then you wouldn't resent her for asking you to.<p>Do you really need to go to a Topless bar to have fun with your friends? Why don't you get together with your friends and go to dinner and bowling or skiing or anything you guys like to do that is tastful? <p>BTW, my husband is right here in the room with me and agrees so this isn't just a woman saying this to you.<p>Also, note Dr. Harley's info on Policy of Joint Agreement...please read it and reflect before you chose to disregard her feelings on this and go anyway or resent her for making you not go. Also, note this is a website of marriage BUILDERS not how to hurt your marriage. Please don't make the mistake of starting your marriage negatively impacted by this issue.

I agree with JoAnn. Isn't there something else you could do with your friends that don't include half naked women? If you do go through with this...don't expect her to be happy about it. And this could hurt your marriage before it even starts. Marriages are NOT easy. Don't make it harder than it needs to be. You say you love her enough to give it up, so do it. I guarantee you will not regret it. Men and women should do these kind of things while they are single. Once you are in a relationship, other people (naked) should not be a part of it. There will be hurt feelings that won't be mended. So, think real hard before you do this. Think about how it will make your soon to be wife feel.

aaRude (not your real name, I hope! )<p>JoAnn and Tenaya have a good point about the POJA. Once you're engaged, you should agree on things. The POJA also states that you and she should "brainstorm" for mutually acceptable compromises. I've heard of brides-to-be having a "bachelorette party" with parallel activities (if you get my meaning). I would assume in your fiance's mind this would also be unacceptable. (good for the goose, good for the gander)<p>Theoretical question. The night before your wedding, her friends show up and take her to a party. A male stripper shows up. What does she do? Would she get up and walk out to the protests of her friends? Maybe some of them would talk about her for years. Maybe they would blame the husband-to-be.<p>(just a thought)<p>Why do you WANT to go? To see the naked women? Because your buddies want you to go? Because you'll be embarresed because they'll think you're "hen-pecked"?<p>These are things to consider. If you want to go because you are afraid what your friends will think, then you need to adjust your way of thinking. Your wife HAS to come first. Get used to NOT being able to do some things out of deference to your wife.<p>If you want to go to see the naked women, ask yourself why. <p>Maybe a compromise is a party with no women. Or maybe she should have an equivalent party. <p>The answer is compromise and negotiation, not vetoing any activity the other doesn't like. <p>Val<br>(the husband)<p>PS Yes, I had a bachelor's party. It was a flop. The host got drunk and sick. His mother threw us uot of the house. (moral - never have a bachelor's party at a place where the guy live with his mother!)<p>I've been to one good one - the one I planned for a friend. There was stripper there (shocking!) but my wife knew about it and wasn't concerned. The biggest part of the party was a bunch of guys standing around drinking beer and playing basketball (not playing too well after all the beer!)<p>By definition, most bachelor parties are duds. Probably because men don't plan very good parties, Porn videos or strippers aren't that entertaining, everybody gets drunk, and you have to worry about getting killed if you drive home drunk.<p>

I Just wanted to than everyone that posted a response to my dilemma.(JoAnn, Tenaya, V, Val. etc) <br>Now my question is: If I go ahead and dimiss the bachelor party idea. What about the future? Does this mean that just looking at a porno magazine would be considered improper? What about having a fantasy? Aren't they healty? Can one Person really be everithing in your Life? Don't get me wrong. I am absolutely not talking about cheating or playing around. At the same time shouldnt there be other outlets? As long as they are kept in check and both parties agree to them?<br>Tahnk you all very much!<br>Giving me a lot to think about.<br>

aaRUDe,<br>If your wife is meeting your sexual need you will not need any other outlets. Let her be your fantasy. Fantasy is not wrong it is what you do with that fantasy. Do you act on it ect. Your wife must understand that you have this need for sex and you must understand her needs need to be met. If you go into marriage not ready to meet each other needs your marraiage will fail. I understand it is very hard and scary to trust one woman to meet your sexual needs for the rest of your life but if you explain to her your fears I am sure she will not disappoint you in that area. Trust in her to be the only woman you will ever need<br>

aaRude,<p> I would suggest that you and your W-to-be get and read Harley's books. (and others for that matter. Sorry Willard...) You have the chance to learn a lot about what you're "getting into" and to prepare for possible landmines - unlike those of us here who entered into marriage not knowing how little we knew!<p>As for "other outlets". Not only are they not really "acceptable", they're far inferior to what you and your wife can be for each other. <p>Read the books - so you know what makes each other (and yourself) "tick". I don't know about the others here, but I learned a lot about MYSELF from the books on this site.<p>Remember to continue "Courting" your wife even after you get married. Plan special weekends, send her flowers "just because" (send them to where she works: Extra brownie points!) <p>It's so easy to say "just love her", what's hard is learning HOW to love her. Finding out how SHE wants to be loved, what makes her happy. <p>Talk to her about what you heard and learned here. Make sure she knows WHY you'll be skipping the bachelor party (because she's the most important thing in your life, and you never want to make her unhappy.) <p>Whe you address an audience, they say "people don't care what you know until they know that you care" You will be demonstrating the practices outlined in HNHN and the other books. Your behaviour will make her want to know more about it. <p>Babble, babble<br>Val

I agree with most of what the rest of the others said. Do not get married unless you are ready to faithful to her body ,mind and soul!That is what marriage is all about. If you want other outlets or to look at another woman with lust, then stay single. Spare your wife the grief of wondering if she is enough for you and that she is loved 100% of the time.My husband had a bachelor party, but without the women. They went out to dinner, then to a bar that had a bunch of recreational stuff in it(pool, darts, cards, basketball etc).Everyone had fun and there weren't any regrets.

Okay, what about those men who do the porn thing, and the cheating thing, even though you've done everything you can to meet his sexual needs? I've been through that before in a past relationship, and I was just wondering, is meeting the sexual need always enough?

Hey guys:<p>Just wanted to say that it IS possible to get married without first spending a night out with your buds, drinking and watching gyrating boobs! <p>We got married in my wife's home town, so everybody from my side (including me) had to travel some distance. Some of my family ran into delays, so the rehearsal started late. And so the dinner afterward started late, too.<p>By the time all us out-of-towners got back to the motel, it was pretty late to get a 'party' going. My buddies in my wedding party were gonna take me out to consume 'adult beverages', but then we would have had to drive back to the motel in a 'polluted' condition! (It's SO uncool to die the night before your wedding!)<p>So we got some beers, and just sat out in the parking lot (it was summer) talking about life, women, jobs, women, sports, women... you get the idea. I actually had a good time. After several beers and several hours, we turned in around 5 AM.<p>Anyway, my headache was gone by noon, and I managed to stay awake for my wedding. And I had NO problem staying awake for the 'good stuff' later!

Your friends are just using you to go out and look at titty and you're going to pay the price the rest of your marriage. WOman never forget things like this and no matter how much you apologize it will never really go away.<br>Don't go. Go to a sports bar, ride a mechanical bull, go to a concert, anything but look at naked girls knowing your fiance doesn't approve.

aaRude:<p>OK, this is gonna sound crude, but hey, I'm a guy. It's practically expected. <p>The previous advice (avoid making your soon-to-be-wife feel bad, consider her feelings) are appeals to your Giver. Now here's something for your Taker to think about: <p>Ticked-off bride = less honeymoon poo-tang!<p>Is that a clear picture, Taker? Skip the 'boob-bars'. My guess is you'll be glad you did!

Time for a comment from one who has suffered and has caused his wife to suffer!<p>I cannot overstate the revelation in my thinking that came about from the Policy of Joint Agreement. And especially from the idea, that you cannot engage in activity or thought which you know your wife will not agree with.<p>I have spent the last 7 months of my life trying to justify that my behavior of looking at other women was "acceptable to society" even though my wife and I were aproaching divorce over it. I had two marriage counsellors tell me that my wife should just "grow up and get over it", and of course that is what I told her to do.<p>Finally I found Marriage Builders and read it all, I started counselling (by myself, because by this point, my wife has figured she doesnt know who I am, and doesnt like shat she does know) with Steve Harley. In the first session he said a sentence that put it all into focus. "You cannot justify your actions by what is acceptable to society, but only by what is acceptable to your wife." The "I'm just a man" excuse wears thin when you really put it under the light. Men may be visually stimulated, but trust me, the pain of your wife losing her love for you is far more painful than the lost opportunity of the bachelor party. I have been at the lowest point in my life for months and everything in my life is collapsing around me because I cant hold my life together with the constant depression and stress. <p>All of this because I was "just a man". You always have a choice, and if you think that disappointing your friends or not having other "outlets" is painful, trust me, it pales in comparison. If your wife thinks that those things are ok, then power to you, but trust me, her mind can change, and you may not know until it is too late. I thought my wife didnt take these things seriously, and I didnt think I was doing anything abnormal, or even anything that anyone noticed. BOY WAS I WRONG! Be happy that your wife to be has told you that she finds this unacceptable, I would have loved to have known that a year ago! Tell your fiancee that you are so happy that she told you that and that you will not do anything that she does not ENTHUSIATICALLY AGREE with, and that when you are not with her, you will always think of her opinions before making a decision.<p>I think that a few years from now, you will be very happy that you did.<p>

Sorry, Double post<p><p>[This message has been edited by Matt (edited 01-25-99).]