Well...with my D looming on the horizon, I have decided to ask the STBX if she is absolutly certain she wants this divorce.<P>I don't know if I love her or not because she killed most of that last year. I do know there is a part of me that still wants my family whole again.<P>Can I get past the pain she caused me?? I don't know. Can we really have a happy marriage after all this? I'd like to think so. Am I a glutten for punishment? Probably.<P>As you all may have notived, the last week or so I have been thinking a lot. This has motivated me to see if there is a lingering hope. I also have found out that she and LRB have broken up due to his using. This could be the window of oportunity to right the wrongs.<P>I will require a guarantee that contact with LRB be completely severed, along with his friends. I will strongly suggest she seek counceling with Jennifer Chalmers so we can get on a specific plan for recovery.<P>Will she go for this? I doubt it, but I feel obligated to find out.<P>Let me know what you think.<P>Bill

Why not just talk to her first as a friend? Find out what her needs are right now. Think about whether you can meet them. If you can meet them, then you can start to talk to her about how you might meet them, and what you will need from her. <P>The impression I got from you is that you're starting to sell yourself back to her by naming the price, then describing what the product does, then finally (maybe) asking her what she needs the product to do.<P>My script would go something like this: "When I heard you broke up with LRB because he was using again, I thought a lot of things I probably shouldn't have, but then I just felt bad for you and for him. I know this divorce is very hard for both of us, and I want to do the right things so that we can be friends. I hope you know you can talk to me if you need to." If the conversation goes further, fine. If not, it's the wrong moment to push--the hook isn't set. There will be a moment when you will *know* that it is.<P>It is going to be a while before you can start talking about guarantees and counseling. You need to first have her thinking more positively about you. And that comes in small steps; not with you carving out stone tablets on the mountaintop at the first moment that you see her cut loose from LRB.

Good points Sys, I forgot to add that I have not lovebusted whatever in the past six months. I know how she is and should she have a desire to reconcile, I wouldn't hit her with a bunch of demands right off.<P>Thanks for your views.<P>Bill

Good Luck!

I wish you all the best! Good luck and take care of yourself!

Great to hear, Mon Cher Guillaum!!!<P>Please do what you can to give it one last shot!! For little Abbey's sake--she needs a mom and a dad together under one roof. She needs a chance for a happy life, not one filled with confusion and wishing. You are a fantastic father for doing what's right for your little one.<P>You are quite a man for trying to rise above this big mess. You have the strength to forgive--and you have spent the last year or so building up that strength. Pray for guidance, pray for the right words to say to madame that will turn her heart in the right direction. You will be blessed--you already have been. I don't have words to tell you how happy I am that you are making this move.<P>Bon chance, Guillaum!! I will keep you in my prayers that all may go well for you!!<P>Your friend,<P>Mary<p>[This message has been edited by Bernzini (edited January 23, 2001).]

Bill,<P>You have been thinking a lot lately. It helps to go and read some of the success stories and realize what people have worked through to get there. I think if there is any feeling of hope left at all, one can try, but definitely guard your heart.<P>Lori

I guess I will ask you how you would start reconciliation with out first having a "list" of demands? Would you start and then say, no don't do that, it hurts too much ? Or would you give a list first.<P>I had a list of "demands" when we had our first attempt at reconciliation. I wanted her to quit her job, because thats where she met om, plus I felt her job was taking precendence in our marriage. She said no she could never leave the job, she was comfortable there and had seniority there and the job ment everything to here. She ended up leaving that job 5 months after the divorce and now is low on seniority list.<P>I asked that she not see the anti-bob, but she said it could just be professional since they worked together. That never happened and her affair continued.<P>She also said she didn;t want to feel trapped and like she had to report to me on everything. <P>My counselor said I should drop the job change as he didn't feel that was the problem, even though I did.<P>I did ask her one final time if she truly wanted the divorce and she said yes and then she almost convinced me.<P>When she couldn't give up om, I gave up.<P>Good luck to you, and GOd's Blessings,<P>Bob

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RWD:<BR><B>I guess I will ask you how you would start reconciliation with out first having a "list" of demands? Would you start and then say, no don't do that, it hurts too much ? Or would you give a list first.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Did you present a list of "demands" when you first started dating? <P>Start a reconciliation the same way you start a new relationship: slowly, tentatively, with the antenna turned to maximum gain and the mind working out every word before it leaves one's mouth. <P>At some point the time will be right to talk about what you both need. And then it needs to be done gently and with sensitivity. Something we guys are not too good at.

Bill- <BR> Good luck, and go for it!! <P>RWD and Sisyphus- <BR> I agree with the list of "demands".. I think we all had "demands" when we were dating. If someone didn't meet those demands or requirements then we broke up. Now, on the other hand.. Do these demands include things that the other party was doing when you got married? If so, then NO, there should be no reason to ask someone to change. You knew that part of them when you married. I do realize that we all change as we grow older and hopefully wiser!, and we have to learn to accept that in our spouses. <P> As for the job.. My H is/was (I'm not real sure right now) having an affair with someone he worked directly with. I would expect all contact and him to at least transfer in order for there to be any chance at all of us working things out. As for my job, I would consider after some time giving it up if it meant my marriage surviving. Right now, however, I couldn't see giving up my livelyhood for a chance that in two months he gave up again?? So, where? when? do you draw the line and what types of demands would you make? Maybe that is a better question... <BR>

Sisyphus,<P>I have gained so much from your posts. You so often say things that relate to me.<BR>Your comment about demands - "would you present a list of demands while you were dating" hit me like a ton of bricks.<P>I am nowhere near reconciling, in fact it has never been discussed, however, 'what' plays out in my head had never thought of that.<P>Of course any new relationship with him would be like dating again. Thank you for that one line that may just change my life.<P>WilliamJ - be careful. You have come so far, really think this through. I too am an incurable romantic (I think you are!!) and am all for putting the family back together. And yes Abbey deserves consideration here. But as we all know, a lot of these problems stemmed from putting other things first, instead of our partners. And children are the biggest priorities, which sometimes make us put each other last..<P>What I'm trying to say in a very convoluted way is that any reconciliation must be for you and W. Not Abbey, not your families, not your friends, not for economic reasons. But you two.<P>I would love to see this work out for you, I have got the feeling over the last couple of months that she seems to be taking tentative baby steps towards you. This is great. But I agree with Sisyphus (as I usually do) that you need to be a friend a first. I know you have been exactly that over the last 6 months, WE ALL know that, but I'm not sure if you penetrated her fog enough for her to know that. Be aware of the fact that you might have to start with a clean slate - in her mind. The last 6 months of friendship won't count in her mind, because she probably won't have noticed it.<P>Patience my friend. God I love saying that to other people, when I have NONE!!!!!!!! But I'm trying.<P>It's good that she knows about him using again. Hmmmmmmm, not so Mr perfect after all. Maybe she is starting to see exactly what he is. I hope so. <BR>I will keep you in my thoughts and my prayers my friend. Keep us posted.<P>love and hugs<P>Jo

Well gang...Thanks for support and ideas... <P>If you read my other thread you will see that LRB has decided once again to give up the dope for the love of his life (my STBX)<P>I figured about a 5% chance she'd be willing to reconcile...I'll still pose the ? to her but I doubt she'll be interested, after all...It is God's will for her to be with this boy <P>So I plan my future without her...Such is life...<P>Love you guys!!<P>Bill

Bill,<P>God never gives you more than you can handle in one day. You are a good man, and for what ever hope there was, you had to ask and find out.<P>Whatever the future brings, good luck!<P>Bumper

I'm gonna have to check this part of the board more often...<P>Bill, my friend, you never cease to amaze me!!!<P>Just wanted you to know I was thinking of you.<P>Luv ya!<P>Lori

Hey Dude,<P>I noticed you have been posting a lot lately so I know something is going on in you mind.<P>I thought about the same things about Val. It was heartbreaking to hear her cry last Friday. I was appreciative that at least it brought up the emotion of sadness for the end of our marriage.<P>You, deep down know what you have to do. We can not help you do it, but will support you every step of the way.<P>You have my number and I would be more than willing to listen.<P>Your Bud,<P>Zip