My wife got an apartment a few blocks away and is moving out "for a while". Her reasons are a complicated mix of resentments over money problems,stress and depression related to her chronic health problems(fatique and muscle aches).She says she can't handle the stress of living in this household with me and our 15 year old daughter with her condition.<BR> She had a short affair a year ago,but it ended and we worked through it,and recommited to each other. She says there is no one else now, and she just needs time alone,to heal and get stronger,etc. I do believe her. She says she still loves me and we do still have alot of emotional and sexual closeness with each other when we aren't arguing about our issues.<P>My question is WHAT GUIDELINES SHOULD BE SET UP TO KEEP A SEPARATION FROM TURNING INTO A DIVORCE due to petty disagreements and distrust.We,ve agreed to keep seeing each other and to be sexually faithful. But since she is moody,resentful and often emotionally unpredictable, how can I feel confident that she won't get involved with other people now that she has alot more"space" between us and free time to herself?<P>Any ideas would be welcomed.<P>Thanks<BR>JDH<P>

I have a bunch of MB goodies I'll share tonight...I haven't time to post them...<P>Hang in, ok?<P>Bill<P>------------------<BR><P>May the roads rise to meet you,<BR>May the winds always be at your back,<BR>May the sun shine warm upon your face,<BR>The rains fall soft upon your fields,<BR>And until we meet again,<BR>May god hold you<BR>In the hollow of his hand.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JDH:<BR><B>My wife got an apartment a few blocks away and is moving out "for a while". Her reasons are a complicated mix of resentments over money problems,stress and depression related to her chronic health problems(fatique and muscle aches).She says she can't handle the stress of living in this household with me and our 15 year old daughter with her condition.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I hope your neighborhood is the kind where you can take walks. I'd say get daughter and *walk* over to her place every evening (if that's acceptable). Then walk and talk some more. There may be some surprises for all of you in doing that. Gentle exercise may be a great thing for your W. And the pleasant, low-stress atmosphere of the walk can be a great place to have light, casual conversation that will restore the trust needed to carry on deeper conversations.<P>

"Should I Stay or Go? How controlled seperation (CS) can save your marriage."<P>by Lee Raffel, MSW. ISBN 0-8092-2997-8

JDH,<P>I've been right where your wife is.....only we didn't take action in time to prevent divorce. My H burnt out trying to deal with my depression..... and he went to another woman for comfort.<P>1st - Get your wife in to see her Dr. <P>My Dr. tested my Cortisol level (natural steroid level). I think he was testing me for an illness called Cushing's Syndrome. If the cortisol level is elevated, it could mean that there is a tumor somewhere. The tumor would be throwing all of her hormones and their functions out of balance. That could be causing all the problems.<P>However, if the cortisol levels are normal, then the most likely cause is Depression.....and then they call it Pseudo-Cushing's Syndrome. It looks and behaves a lot like Cushing's, and there is a chemical imbalance in the body.....but it's not caused by a tumor.<P>Be happy if the cortisol level is normal. Depression is VERY treatable. And, believe it or not, it CAN be causing all the problems with fatigue and all the pains. Depression seems to accentuate pain. Things that should be minor aches can be *very* painful for a person with depression.<P>IF it is depression ---<P>Get your wife in to see the VERY BEST Psychiatrist that you can locate. I was lucky, my stbx's brother-in-law is on the Board of Directors of our HMO. He was able to locate an incredible Psychiatrist for me to see. She a Diplomate with the American Board of Psychiatry and Neurology. Look for additional certifications. Go ahead and ask for a resume' and references if you think they may help. Ask your Dr., ask friends, call local referral services. <P>You contact the Dr., explain the situation, and ask them for advice and assistance in getting your wife in for treatment. If you feel that she is a danger to herself or someone else, then see about getting her to a hospital.<P>Psychiatry isn't as simple as walking in and being given a pill. It may take a long time to locate a medication or combination of medications that work for your wife. You may even have to change Dr.s (I had a really bad one before getting my wonderful referral).<P>Just don't give up.<P>Another thing --- take care of yourself FIRST. You can't take care of your wife if you are not well. Find yourself a good therapist to talk to.....it's very likely that you'll need it. (My H tried to be the Rescuer....it only turned him into a Victim too.) You are not going to be able to do this on your own.<P>When the medication begins to prove effective, get in to see a marriage counselor. *Something* caused this to happen. It's very possible that your wife doesn't even know what that something is right now. And, truth be known, it could be something that you are doing and you aren't even aware of it. [That's where Plan A, the Emotional Needs Questionaire and other resources come into play.]<P>I won't lie to you. You've got a hard and very emotional road ahead of you. But I don't think it's too late for your marriage. If you can survive this, your marriage will indeed be strong.<P>I applaud your desire and will, and I wish you luck,<P>~Amy<p>[This message has been edited by out of the fog (edited January 25, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by out of the fog:<BR><B>1st - Get your wife in to see her Dr. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Great post OOTF. While he's at it, he might want to learn about fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Immune Dysfunction Syndrome (CFIDS-once derided as the "Yuppie Flue" but gaining more clinical respect). <P>Differential diagnosis (doctorese for "figuring out what's wrong") is *very* difficult in this area. But nutrition and exercise play surprisingly powerful roles.<P>If you can get the wife on more proteins, more often, and earlier in the day; and on some gentle exercise program, perhaps with massage, she may see some relief relatively soon, without heavy medical intervention. <P>All this is assuming there's no OM, that you and your daughter are not doing some awful things to mess her up, etc. We're not there to see what's happened or is happening now. <P>Keep us posted and good luck.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited January 25, 2001).]

Thanks for the replies so far.<P>To add a few more details: <BR>My wife has fibromyalgia for the past 10 years, complicated by depression. She's been through the mill with doctors, psychiatrists,counselors,antidepressants,pain meds.,sleeping pills etc. to the point of addiction.She's finally coming out of that and zeroing in on a few nutritional supplements that seem to be helping.However, I think she's had a lot of frustration built up over not being able to work and handle things around the house.(There were periods where she'd stay in bed the majority of the time from a combination of muscle pain and depression.)Unfortunately, I think she has been projecting her anger and frustration with her life at me and my daughter.<BR>I've certainly got my faults ,but I love her and I basically treat her very well and am considerate of her problems.<BR>I've been doing the majority of the housework and struggling to pay the bills myself for many years.<BR> I am a self employed contractor and her main complaint revolves around the fact that there are ups and downs in my business and her"nerves can't handle" not having a "secure and steady" paycheck.(even though my income averages enough to make ends meet on a reasonable budget,especially combined with the disability income she finally began recieving recently). To me, this is not respecting who I am and my need to choose the type of work that is right for me.I would never do that to her. <BR>I feel that I need and want the flexibilty<BR> of self employment in order to be able to deal with stress of the heavy financial and household responsibilities I carry. Also it makes the most financial sense to me( more potential income for the amount of time spent when compared to any "punchclock" job I'd be likely to find.) <BR>I just seems wrong for her to demand that I throw away 15 years of building a business for work that leaves me stressed and unfulfilled so that she can feel more "secure".Instead I feel that she should be willing to keep within a budget and work on her own insecurity/worry and controll issues in her own mind rather than blaming me because there are limits to our finances.<P>These are some of the issues we're dealing with. I am hoping that by facing the challenges of moving on her own on a very limited income, she will become a stronger person AND come to realize and appreciate all I've been doing for her and how good she really has it here. Any advice on how to keep it moving in that direction and avoid having it disintegrate into divorce would be greatly appreciated.<P>Thanks again<P>JDH

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JDH:<BR><B>I've been doing the majority of the housework and struggling to pay the bills myself for many years.<BR> I am a self employed contractor and her main complaint revolves around the fact that there are ups and downs in my business and her"nerves can't handle" not having a "secure and steady" paycheck.(even though my income averages enough to make ends meet on a reasonable budget,especially combined with the disability income she finally began recieving recently).</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is the <I>exact same</I> issue that I faced in my marriage. I have no idea why <I>some women</I> believe that a steady paycheck from an employer is going to give them <I>any more</I> security than they get from our self-employment.<P>In my view it's a red herring based on their <I>lack</I> of admiration of us, trust that we will be breadwinners, etc. In other words, it's a symptom not a cause in itself; and if we took the steady job we'd be no better off in their eyes (and we know, we'd be just as likely to face layoff, etc.). <P>Ladies, correct me if I'm off-base. <P>I don't think logic will cut it in opposing this idea. What might cut it is the building up of <I>savings</I> from your own paycheck (not hers) ... require that she spend hers on running the household.<P>All I know is I didn't do this right; or perhaps it couldn't be done right (being a manifestation of something else I couldn't get at). <P>If you can *raise* your prices (and find a sideline that also produces a steady income) so that you're a little bit farther ahead, that might help too. I think doing the housework is a <B>bad</B> idea--this is not work that your wife values--it gives you no deposits in your love bank. Either let it remain undone unless she does it (while you are out doing <B>real work</B>, or hire someone to come in (regardless of however much that hurts financially).<P>The key thing is you need to restore that admiration system to proper functioning. It will help her health, too.

Lots of good things coming out here folks.<P>JDH, you've been dealing with this for 10 years?! It only took 5 to destroy my marriage.....and my depression was definitely treatable.<P>It sounds like you are definite that it's fibromylangia. That's a hard diagnosis to get. Fibromylangia, chronic fatigue, Cushing's and Pseudo-Cushing's syndromes are a group of names used for a collection of very similiar symptoms. They aren't the names of the illnesses, but just names for the collective symptoms. There's other names floating out there too and they change every few years.<P>If you can locate the root cause of the problem and tackle it, then everything else will straighten itself out. Mine was caused by only depression....nothing complex.<P>But I can tell you this - your wife has been going through an incredible amount of frustration. She's been racking her brain trying to figure out what is wrong. She's been dealing with Drs. that won't listen to her. She probably feels that nobody believes her, people are tired of hearing of her complaints, she thinks that nobody likes her, she never feels good, she doesn't feel good about herself (self-esteem) ---- she's crying out for help because she feels totally helpless. <P>And yet, she doesn't want to have to rely on others. She doesn't want to feel as if she is a burden. <P>Frustration, insecurity ---- she's desperate. She wants something, anything, to go right in her life. Even if that is as simple as knowing where the money is coming from and that it will be there. She's a worrier.<P>CBS Healthwatch has a pretty good article about fibromylangia. But it didn't have what I was looking for. There's a lot of different things that have to be ruled out to get a fibromylangia diagnosis.<P><BR>JDH -- I know, none of this has been easy for you. I'm wanting to tell you to not take the way the behaves personally ---- but I know that it's impossible for you to do since it pervades every part of your daily life. You are dealing with what is, for your wife, a catastrophic, long-term illness. It's not even recognized by some Drs.; it's not well understood; and you have to deal with it day in and day out....every day. It's incredibly stressful --- for everyone in the family.<P>You've said that your wife has seen a lot of Drs. and tried a lot of different things. What have you done for yourself? For your daughter? Have you had someone to talk to? Someone who can help you deal with your anger and frustration as you deal with this illness everyday? Have you considered medication to help you with the stress and it's psychological side-effects?<P>I'm also going to urge you to once again to get your wife in to see a psychiatrist -- maybe go into Philadelphia to see someone. There are a number of new anti-depressant medications that have come onto the market in the past couple of years.<P>Never stop trying to find something that may help. <P>She knows that she needs you, but I also know that she doesn't like feeling so helpless.<P>Leaving her and taking money away isn't going to solve her problems. All it will do is make her life that much more difficult, prevent her from getting the medical attention she needs, and rip her support system out from under her. But it's not going to solve the root problem. It's not going to ease the problems of the fibromylangia.<P>Please find someone to talk to. I think you too may be acting out your frustrations. <P>You can't rescue your wife. You can't force her to do what she can not do -- rescue herself. But don't let this turn you all into victims. Get some help.<P>~Amy

Interesting replies,<P>SISYPHUS-Its a relief to know there are others struggling with this same "lack of respect for self employment" issue.Self employment is actually MORE difficult and demanding than "regular work" and should get MORE respect in a relationship. But it doesn't. Why?.Unless one is highly successful,self employment is always a quick and easy target for criticizm.Why do alot of women have trouble appreciating a man's struggle to to build a better way of working and living ,and trying to fulfill their potential. I'd like to hear more discussion on this.<P>OUT OF THE FOG/AMY--Your insightful replies<BR> show me that you've "been there" with chronic pain /depression.I think you said your marriage broke up over it.Sorry to hear that and I hope for a better future for you.<BR>Sounded like you thought I was forceing my wife to leave. NOT AT ALL.I wanted her to stay,told her I'd go to any counselor she wants.(although we tried counseling a year ago and it didn't realy change anything).<BR>She is the one who seems to be determined to "to make a statement" by proving she can make it on her own.<BR>I've been faithfully committed to this woman for 23years of marriage.The last 10 years of which I've endured a rollercoaster ride of <BR>her chronic pain and severe depression,medication addictions and related mood swings,her inability to function effectively around the home (meals, basic cleaning,laundry parenting discline etc.)<BR>bankruptcy, suicidal threats and one actual attempt,a brief psychiatric hospitalization,<BR>and an affair. I have stood by her through all of this, and have forgiven her for the affair,(even though it still hurts at times). How have I managed to deal with my own stress and emotions? I don't know.It hasn't been easy.But my faith in God has helped(although not necessarily religion).<P>One thing I've come to see is that people have to take responsibility for their own<BR>health,physical mental and emotional in order to get well or to stay well.<BR>You can learn to know your own condition and your needs far better than any doctor or counselor ever will. You must be willing to research and experiment and find out what works best for you.Doctors and counselors and psychiatrists are all merely "consultants" who's opinions may or may not be valid. Only you can judge.<P>In my wife's case I can understand some of the psychological forces at work. She is so frustrated and angry about the way her life has been "paralized" for the past 10 years <BR>and the unhealthy depressed ruts and demotivated "given up" dysfunctional behavior patterns she has gotten into, that her inner self "cries out" for change. And rightly so.Those patterns NEED to be changed in order for her to become a stronger and more whole and healthy person.<BR>She interperts this as an inner directive to ESCAPE from what she sees as the stressful environment of our household.<BR>Sadly, she doesn't seem to recognize that the stress is created by her own negative emotional state, and that if she were to work as hard on herself and her own life<BR>right here at home as she will be forced to by necessity when she moves out, her (and our) problems could be solved without her leaving and subjecting our relationship and family to this unnecessary stress and risk.<BR> <BR>Anyway, at this point I feel I have to let her do what she really wants to do.Pressuring her to stay would only backfire.I show her I still care.(I helped her move her stuff into her apartment today). But I have to remain firm on the need for her to respect my needs and values as well in order to find solutions that work for both of us.<BR>I guess I'm realizing the wisdom of that saying (parphrased): "IF YOU LOVE SOMEONE , SET THEM FREE. IF YOU ARE MEANT TO BE TOGETHER THEY WILL RETURN TO YOU."<P>More insights and comments by any and all are welcome.<P>Thanks.<P>JDH