I have been reading this forum for quite some time now and I have some general comments that I have to make.<p>First I would like to ask women who have had affairs or women in general what ONE thing is potentially a common thread that the wronged spouse could have done that could have prevented the affair? I know there are many but what is the biggy?<p>Women, listen carefully. Make love enthusiastically and frequently, and unconditionally with your husbands and you will keep them. I see some women writing that you do do that and you have other problems. This is possible but I think not common. People are affraid to admit this. Men want, need, must have sex. Lets just say it without hiding behind a lot of flowery language from various books and sources. If you do not participate sexually with your husband you increase the risk of an affair more than by ignoring any other need he has. And by increased risk I mean orders of magnitude greater than by not meeting the other needs. Also, realize "giving" sex to him is not what he wants. He wants you to want him. Pretend if you have to but do it. Yes this is a one sided simplistic narrative but it is absolutely true. It will not solve al problems but pleasee give it a try before its too late.<p>As for the guys who went to porn, I do not condone it. I will say that this happens when he is not satisfied sexually. Now to dispell a very popular myth, a man using porn because he is not sexually fulfilled absolutely does not mean that it is his wifes appearance, breast size etc. that is not fulfilling him.<br>Most men would trade down on the proverbial scale of 1 to 10 in looks to have a great compatible sex partner in their bed every night. So all the whining about (and i've even seen it written by a woman that she cannot be convinced men are not comparing porn girls to their wives) being compared is completely unfounded. Work on the self esteem. And yes the husband has the responsibility to build the wifes self esteem. But, the porn girls are not being compared in appearance. If their is a comparison being made it is in the level of sexual cooperation and willingness to please the man. The porn girl represents a false ideal which is why porn is dangerous, but do not fall into the appearance self pity trap. Make love agressively and with desire, make your husband feel wanted, do it as yuorself, not fake, it may feel awkward but it'll make him feel great. The real thing, awkward and silly as it may feel, is far better than the porn girl. Men agree with women that its goofy to see random acts of sex like in the porno movies, yet when you look at the spectrum men have, on one end the instantly willing and horny porn girl, on the other the often uninterested wife saying "ok go ahead and get it over with" he will gravitate to the end of the spectrum where the porn girl is. Not all the way in that direction but definately in tht direction. He wants a committed wife, family relationship but for his mate to desire him openly and willingly.<p>Stop dancing around this issue, it is real. Both men and women need to be honest about this.

Pragmatic,<p>I think the biggie would depend on what woman you asked. I'll admit I have come close to one (luckily avoided it because of a conscience). For me is was the lack of real communication. Someone that could and would listen to me talk about anything. How my day went, how I was feeling, what made me happy, what could he do to help me. I just wanted someone to listen and HEAR what I had to say. This gave me a sense of importance. That I counted for something.<p>I also think you are right about the sex. I think it is fair to say the both sides NEED it. They also need it to be enjoyable. <p>I hope you find the answers you are looking for. <p>Steph

Pragmatic: I had an affair, and the only reason I could give my husband was, "he talks to me". So I'd have to agree with Steph, it was a lack of communication that actually led to my having an affair. <p>I think you're right about sex, but it's not always the woman who's not interested. In my case it's always been my husband who could care less. The funny thing is, I hear women here complain about their husband looking at pornography and I think, "I'd be thrilled if my husband was even interested in that". You see, I'm the one with the tendency to look at porn, etc., so I guess in my marriage the norm is reversed. Sometimes I wonder if this isn't a cause/effect thing. The more one spouse denies the other, the more the other becomes obsessed with what they can't have. <br>Lisa

Pragmatic said...<p> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Also, realize "giving" sex to him is not what he wants. He wants you to want him. Pretend if you have to but do it. Yes this is a one sided simplistic narrative but it is absolutely true.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><p>While I agree with the first part(him wanting you to want him), I have to say in the clearest voice possible the last part is completely NOT TRUE. Ladies, don't you believe for a SECOND that all men are like this, that we are animals that will be satisfied by a few fake grunts and moans.<p>Now Pragmatic, it may be true for you, but please don't generalize all men like that. I just finished filling out the part of my Emotional Needs questionnaire on sex, and the funny thing is, I actually wrote that I'd "rather not do anything if she's not going to be into it." And that is SO true. An emotional component is imperative to my being able to enjoy it, and that emotional component MUST be shared by both partners.<p>In other words, a headache is preferable to faking it. Or better yet, just say you're "not in the mood." I won't say that sex is not important, but faking it is akin to being lied to, and about something *very* personal and special. I'd rather go solo, personally.<br><p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited 01-15-99).]

Hi wow sorry I had to jump off before. Pragmatic I think your observations are probably true for some situations, but what about those of us who are enthusiastic? I don't think there is one answer. Every situation is different. Since I have been lurking here I have noticed alot of women who are way more interested in sex than their husbands. Pretending is not really an option beacuse unless you are a trained actress it gets a little tiring. I think the best bet is to figure out why the spouse with the low sex drive has a low sex drive and see what can be done to improve it. Counseling, medical help (hormone therapy, viagra or whatever) education and avoiding love busters. But even that doesn't seem like it has worked for many of the spouses here. Every situation is different. Good luck to you in yours<p>[This message has been edited by Christine (edited 01-16-99).]

Sorry, I agree that faking is a horrible option. I was just saying that for emphasis that the man needs to feel that the woman wants and needs it too. I stand corrected on the faking thing.Sorry, to WhoDat, you are exactly right and I feel the way you do, Im allso not an animal satisfied by fake groans and grunts. Again it was just for emphasis and it came out wrong.<br> The answers from those women about communication are what I thought was the case. As for the rest of the comments, yes I see a lot of woman on this forum who want it more than the husband, Thats great. However in my daily life I hear men complaining (masked in humour of course) about the sex life at home. I hear women joking about it too. It is an accepted shared topic of humour when men and women get together as couples to laugh about wives rejecting husbands advances. <p>Do you hear this same sort of humour around the communication issue? Are their jokes that are part of our culture like there are about sex?No. Why is that? Because it isnt funny that men arent communicating with women. Its causing affairs for Petes sake.<p>I know that all circumstances are different but more enthusiastic sex from the women to the men will solve a lot of problems. <br>

To Ltaylor<br>I agree with you regarding when 1 spouse denies the other an obsession seems to arise.<br>I never felt obsessed before but I guess that is what is going on on this forum. I think we are all hoping someone will come up with the answer as to why one denies the other. I am beginning to feel there is no answer and nothing will change. Also, doesn't it seem to spill over and cause problems in other areas in the relationship. I always say there is never any down deep make up when a fight is occurred and you are ready to make up. Seems like love making is the ultimate assurance that things are now ok. But if that never happens then you begin to just sloff over the making up and the problemss are never really laid to rest. On a communicative level maybe, but no on an intimate one.<p>didi