I know that my H affair really broke a bond between us. I have not felt inlove with him since and know that the things that brought us together in the first place were superficial. So I have felt like leaving for 1year 8 months but the only thing holding me back is the what if's and the hassle of a divorce. Other than that I am 80% sure that it is what I should do. I feel good about who I am and about being on my own again (actually it is kind of appealing). I am 30, no children, and now know what I really want in a person. So my question is, <BR>should I tell him?

Before you go off and drop a bomb like that, why don't you put yourself and him through a workshop. pairs.org , retrouvaille.org , gottman.com , or some other program.<P>There are a ton of things inside him that might make you feel *a lot* different if you knew them. And he can be a much different husband if you have a good program that you go to (with follow-up ... out of town workshops are *not* best unless you have somebody local [who uses the same materials] to help you follow up).<P>This is a life-changing decision. It's not like dropping an old coat off at Goodwill. Even assuming you would be deliriously happy in your post-marital freedom, do not rationalize that *he* would be as well. Perhaps you owe him nothing, because he is a lout. But why don't you do the workshop first to find out whether that's the case, because men are not fountains of free-flowing emotional bounty. If you do a workshop, then at the very least you'll have better grounds for making your decision.

Sisyphus--you are so right on!!<P>I am hurt too, I have waited around long enough while my husband decides between some old doggue who is still married and me, a wife who love(d) him very much and who is the mother of his child. (Deep down, of course there is something, but I have lost respect, feelings of intimacy towards him, and hope that he and I will ever, ever see eye to eye, no matter what I still feel for him. It's not really a matter of 'in-love' versus 'love.' It's more of a matter of Head over Heart now: clearing my head, hardening my heart to save my sanity.)<P>I have many times said that I was done, and I sure feel like I am. But guess what? He gets to file for the divorce, if that is what he wants. He keeps dillydallying. I told him to hurry up, I have a life too, he says OK, then keeps on putting me on hold. It's making things suck for me, I tell you. I want closure, but I also want a happy life and to do what's right. <P>I have a kid. Well, a couple of them, actually. And that is probably what keeps single life from being so unappealing. At the same time, life without a man around is more and more seeming to be bearable and in fact, stress-free. That's me.<P>But like Monsieur Sis said, leaving a spouse is not like cleaning out one's closet and depositing the contents at Goodwill after dusk when no one is paying attention. If you have any doubts at all, that is probably telling you something.<P>You should go to the VERY LAST LIMIT before giving up. Head over heart. That's doing what is right. Then you can confidently say that you DID what's right by ending your marriage, if that is what you determine after going the last stretch with him.

"You should go to the VERY LAST LIMIT before giving up."<P>What is that very last limit. Right now I don't find him attractive, I am not interested in sex, many times I would rather not come home, I am tired of trying to improve myself for him when he is tired of working on "us", so what is the VERY LAST LIMIT?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janiee:<BR><B>I am tired of trying to improve myself for him when he is tired of working on "us", so what is the VERY LAST LIMIT?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, the vow said "for better or for worse". You appear to have gotten "better" because I'm not hearing about gambling, fighting, drinking, beating, cursing, drug abuse, recidivist criminality, poverty, Klan membership, raping, neglect of the house, laziness, ill-health, unhealthy habits, rank stupidity, underearning, overspending, huge debt, homosexuality, hugely annoying habits, second-hand smoke, animal abuse, firesetting, bedwetting, crazy politics, excessive numbers of highly allergenic animals, bad parenting or hatred of your in-laws.<P>What I am hearing about is two people who once loved each other (and probably still do) who have grown apart, and who have something in their past that one of them can't let go of. Fine. Deal with it. The both of you have already let it get too big.<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited January 25, 2001).]

To some extent you <I>choose</I> how you feel. It's like smiling. When you feel good you tend to smile more. But when you deliberately smile more, you also tend to feel better. Your feelings affect your attitudes which affect your actions. But your actions affect your attitudes which affect your feelings.<P>I <I>still</I> like Susan Page's book <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0767900421/qid=980439741/sr=1-1/ref=sc_b_1/107-1758539-2208515" TARGET=_blank>How One of You Can Bring the Two of You Together</A>, even though it didn't work for me. (It's hard to work on relationship problems when the "fog" and other personal issues go deeper than the relationship itself.)<BR>

Sisyphus, sometimes you are too funny!!

"Well, the vow said "for better or for worse". You appear to have gotten "better" because I'm not hearing about gambling, fighting, drinking, beating, cursing, drug abuse, recidivist criminality, <B>poverty</B>, Klan membership, raping, <B>neglect of the house</B>, laziness, ill-health, unhealthy habits, rank stupidity, <B>underearning</B>, overspending, huge debt, homosexuality, hugely annoying habits, second-hand smoke, animal abuse, firesetting, bedwetting, <B>crazy politics</B>, excessive numbers of highly allergenic animals, bad parenting or hatred of your in-laws.<P>So I did the things in bold. My bad <P>

Thanks, I'll try to keep positive.

Janiee,<P>There was something written here that I wanted to expand upon. It is something that my wife would not choose to believe, but something that I have found to be true of many other couples (some married for over 50 years). That is: While as spouses we are always expected to "love" each other, there are often periods of time where we may not feel "in-love" with each other. Over a lifetime men and women all go through periods of change - and rarely do these changes happen at the same time (if ever). I believe that when a man/women goes through one of these changes, their feelings tend to go haywire.<P>Like you I am 30yrs old as well. About 3 years ago, I went through a period of about 6 months where I did not feel I was "in-love" with my wife anymore. But instead of acting on that feeling, I had patience with myself. What I did not realize at the time was that the reason I didn't feel "in-love" with her had nothing to do with her - it was me. I saw all my single friends going places and doing things. I was entering into a new career. And I had the responsibilities of a house, wife and dog. It was not that I did not love my wife or that I was not "in-love" with her, it was that I was focusing on all the stress in my life. Because of that I did not feel love for anyone, including myself.<P>I chose to start focusing on loving my wife. At first it felt fake, but after a few months I felt all the feelings I used to have for her returning - I once again fell "in love" with her.<P>I guess what I am trying to say here are two things: First, being in-love is not something that is ever present in a marriage - it comes and goes. There is no "fairy-tale marriage". And second, often to feel "in-love" with someone we need to show love for that person. Show love without expecting anything in return - After all isn't that what love is all about?<P>Pray for patience. Don't rush into anything. But also don't give up trying to fix your marriage - keep trying. If something doesn't work, then try something else...<P>God Bless,<BR>Mike

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SoTired2000:<BR><B>I guess what I am trying to say here are two things: First, being in-love is not something that is ever present in a marriage - it comes and goes. There is no "fairy-tale marriage". And second, often to feel "in-love" with someone we need to show love for that person. Show love without expecting anything in return - After all isn't that what love is all about?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Mike, I agree. All marriages that survive long enough go through periods of coolness, and spouses change. I think if that was all that was going on here, Janiee would not be here. <P>The problem is not one that seems to be resolving itself with time. The troubling feelings left behind by the affair are apparently snowballing; owing in part to the husband's impatience in wanting not to deal with them further.<P>Janiee seems already well along in the process of rewriting her marital history to justify abandonment of her husband--deciding that what was love was instead infatuation, etc. <P>She could, of course, undergo a startling reversal and suddenly love her husband "that way" again. I don't bank on it. He needs to recognize just how close to meltdown the reactor core is; and he needs to accompany her to a workshop where they might learn the technologies they need to apply in order to restore normal functioning.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited January 25, 2001).]

He needs to recognize just how close to meltdown the reactor core is; and he needs to accompany her to a workshop where they might learn the technologies they need to apply in order to restore normal functioning"<P>You are right about rewriting history, I do know it WAS more than infactuation, I do love things about him, and your right on about your quote above.<P>He doesn't realize how unhappy I am and if I tell him he still does not know what to do to build back trust in me and to get me to fall for him again. <BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janiee:<BR><B>He doesn't realize how unhappy I am and if I tell him he still does not know what to do to build back trust in me and to get me to fall for him again. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I can do no more than tell you that I have fallen down this particular slope (but without the affair to start it--mine was more personal stagnation or depression). The key is most likely a local marital workshop with follow-up. It's one weekend together that will help you see clearly your lives as they now exist, and how they could be improved. The follow-up makes sure you capitalize on what will surely be both an opening and a moving toward one-another again.<P>I urge you to find <B><I>something</I></B>, no matter whose philosophies of marital reconstruction it follows. PAIRS and Retrouvaille are the ones you are likeliest to find, but there is also Marriage Encounter and there are others. Good luck.

Dear Jainee,<P>You are young, and you have no children. You don't have half a lifetime invested in your marriage, nor do you have the threat of damage to the kids if you divorce. <P>My first priority would be that even if you have no desire for your H, that you be extremely careful not to get pregnant. A child in the picture changes everything.<P>It may be that the marriage has died due to the affair. We many of us come here after affairs, children resulting from those affairs, all kinds of abuse from drug to spending to alcohol or beatings, but still want to fight to save our marriages.<P>Thinking of the children is a very important reason (or excuse)for staying in a bad marriage. <P>If a marriage workshop doesn't help your marriage, or if your H wont' agree to go, as I see it he has broken his vows. You didn't just react and divorce him; you are trying. If I were in your position and your age I wouldn't stay.<P>I believe in marriage but not at all costs. An affair can destroy it. Not always,but the person who cheats gambles. Sometimes they lose.<P><P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bellevue:<BR><B>It may be that the marriage has died due to the affair.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I don't like to think of a marriage as <I>dead</I> until both parties want nothing more to do with one-another. Janiee's marriage is in deep trouble, and her husband is in deep denial. That's very, very sick; but not dead.<P>The idea that a marriage has <I>died</I> seems an overstatement when the problem is past bad behaviour that has <I>long stopped</I>, but one partner <I>can't</I> seem to get over it and the other partner <I>won't</I> look for ways to help--dying perhaps, but not beyond resuscitation.<P><p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited January 29, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bellevue:<BR><B> If I were in your position and your age I wouldn't stay.<BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Bellevue,<P>Please be careful how you word things like the above - that is maybe how you feel now, but if you were in her shoes, you may feel a lot different. Truth is, that you may have no idea what is going through Janiee's head and her heart. I agree that having children in a troubled marriage complicates things, BUT that does not necessarily lessen the amount of hurt and pain that accompanies a divorce. I so often hear people say things about children and how much more difficult it is going through a divorce with them involved. And in reality I agree that it must be more difficult. But I don't know of anyone who has gone through a divorce without kids, then has gone through one WITH kids. My point is that it may not be a "lesser" pain if you don't have children, it may just be a different kind of pain.<P>My own commitment and vow to my wife would be no different if I did have children - I vowed my life to HER. If I did have kids I would be feeling their pain as well, but I am not sure if it would be more painful than it is for me right now. Not sure if I am making sense here? I am not lessening the effect divorce has on children (please, no flames).<P>The bottom line is just because Janiee does not have children and she is young, does not make it any more beneficial for her to leave a marriage IF, and it is a big IF, there is any hope at saving their relationship.<P>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

There may be hope but it is buried somewhere and the shovel is too big for me to handle. I've asked my husband to help with it, to dig how I need it dug but he won't or can't.