Hi all,<P>Based on the posts I've read, it looks like it was a tough weekend for a lot of us (except those who went to Nashville!)<P>My Divorce is not final yet and my stbx and I had a signed agreement that we would not bring "new relationships" around the kids until after the divorce is final...my 10 year old daughter told me (in the middle of Walmart no less) that she felt "weird and uncomfortable" because when her Dad took her to the video store, he saw OW and ran up and gave her a hug and kiss right in front of my D. He then quickly told my D that he hadn't called ow to set this up - it just "happened."<P>Then, both parents were invited to go to an annual dinner for D's karate class. It is a thank you dinner. At least 5 times I and my D invited STBX to go - since it wasn't about he and I- it was about our daughter. He kept making excuses to her and just shrugged his shoulders with me. THEN, as daughter and I pull up to the restaurant, my daughter sees her dad's truck parked across the street at a different restaurant (a swanky "date" place). She spent the evening watching the door, hoping her dad would come too. On the way home she comments that his "date with OW must have been more important" She said it sarcastically and was obviously very hurt.<P>I even tried to cover for him and told her not to jump to conclusions...maybe it wasn't even his truck - it could've just looked like it. So, she asked him on the phone later that night - he confirmed it was his - she asked why he didn't come to the dinner if he was right there...he said he was busy doing "stuff."<P>He claims to be a great father, spouts angry words at me because I won't agree to give him more custody time than what he has, and yet can't even see how he is hurting his own daughter on a regular basis. If I say anything to him - I'm just jealous of OW, or trying to "control" him, blah, blah, blah. And if daughter says anything, he blames me for trying "to turn her against him." He takes zero responsibility for how his actions affect others.<P>I am so angry at him for this, hating her,hating his fog, wanting to get totally away from him and yet not take the kids away from him...I feel so trapped in having to deal with him when he has no respect for the position he has put the kids and I.<P>We sat near each other at my son's basketball game and I couldn't even think of things to talk to him about - just a lot of silence - 16 years we've been together - separated since August 27th - and I can't even come up with inane conversation to carry on with him. And I'm a person who can talk for 30 minutes with complete strangers in the store...what a difference an affair makes....<P>Lisa

(((((soon2b_alone)))))<P>This is *very* tough; more tough than I could ever know (not having any children of my own). All I can tell you is that the more you let go of the hate and hurt, the better you'll be able to raise your children. <P>If you're watching something involving your child, by all means talk about the child and his teammates.<P>If STBXH misses something he should be at, that is his loss. You can express your sympathy at your child's disappointment, but don't reinforce it by expressing your own. You well know the dangers of parental alienation, but just because you're getting accusations of it doesn't mean you're doing it. <P>Sometimes simple facts affect your childrens' attitudes. The best way to tell when a line has been crossed is when they stop being disappointed he's not spending time with them, and seemingly "on their own" stop wanting to spend time with him. <P>If you're going to "cover" for him even, be careful. Setting the child up for more disappointment by telling her something you're pretty sure is going to turn out not to be the case--that's likely to alienate the child. Perhaps you could have said "if it *is* your father's truck, you have to realize that he now has demands coming at him from another direction--the fact that he chooses one over the other at a particular moment is not a reason to be upset with him."<P>Yes, that's a bitter pill; but it's better than having problems in court in the future over "parental alienation."

I can't think of anything to say that wouldn't get this threads locked. <P>The fog he is in is incredibly thick. Of course I think his head is also...<P>I'm sorry he snubbed your daughter like that. She deserves better. As hard as it may be, try to find a way to explain his behavior as gently as possible to her. I've been wrestling with this one myself. I got "fixed up" last night & my son said he wanted me to wait untill his mom divorced me before going on a date. It's amazing how perceptive they are sometimes...<P>Take care...<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

Well Sis, your advice is usually right on the mark. However, I must disagree with some on your post here. (Or maybe it is just because I am home sick and kinda feisty today):<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The best way to tell when a line has been crossed is when they stop being disappointed he's not spending time with them, and seemingly "on their own" stop wanting to spend time with him. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It seems that her children are at least high school age. It is natural for them to want to spend more time with people other than their parents, custodial or not. So it may not be the case that a line has been crossed. Or at least not that line.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Perhaps you could have said "if it *is* your father's truck, you have to realize that he now has demands coming at him from another direction--the fact that he chooses one over the other at a particular moment is not a reason to be upset with him."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Now this is actually where I have the problem with your post. This is a perfect reason for her to be upset with him. If you tell her that her feelings are invalid, she will start to mistrust you.<P>Much better would be something like, "I understand you are upset. In my opinion, your father is very confused right now, and doesn't have a good idea of what should be a priority in his life. Is there anything I can do to help you through this?"<P>My son was only 6 when this whole thing started, but he has always understood that what was happening was his mother's decision. He also understands that I am disappointed in his mother's choices. And he feels safe to discuss his anger with me or other members of our family. He does not feel the same safety with his mother.

My kids are 10 (daughter) and 14 (son)...they love their dad but even they think he's not "like he used to be" with them.<P>I want to protect them as much as possible from being hurt - but I'm not the one doing the hurting...it makes it very difficult - especially when I have my own hurt at the thought of stbx with OW each time I am faced with acknowledging to myself that the relationship exists.<P>Lisa

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by grandpabri:<BR><B>This is a perfect reason for her to be upset with him. If you tell her that her feelings are invalid, she will start to mistrust you.<P>Much better would be something like, "I understand you are upset. In my opinion, your father is very confused right now, and doesn't have a good idea of what should be a priority in his life. Is there anything I can do to help you through this?"</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Point taken. It's a darn fine line the courts want you to walk now ... I don't know how you can express *any* judgments about an ex-spouse to a child with confidence that it won't come back to haunt you in court.<P>My point would be that some events don't require daddy to show up ... it would seem "optional" (I know--that's horrible). Others of greater importance -- yeah, they make you wish there was some litigation-proof way to tell the kids that daddy was out of line. <P>