Would it be wrong to try and make her jealous? Maybe see another woman while I am there, or will that only cause more problems?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by amd-clh:<BR><B>Would it be wrong to try and make her jealous? Maybe see another woman while I am there, or will that only cause more problems?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>An unnecessary complication for you and your STBXW, and not fair to whoever you might decide to <I><B>use</I></B>. When you're <B>done</B> you can start to see other women. Before then, you'd be monkeywrenching three lives.<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by amd-clh:<BR><B>I am a little worried about her. Her actions seems to be so irrational. I talked to her mother, and she questioned what was going on. None of what is going on with her makes any sense. She even wondered if it was something more, something pshycological. Sounds like there is eveidence of that in her family.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Of course there's something psychological going on. But irrationality comes with being human, and being in "the fog" does not point to a mental illness (which isn't to say that your wife doesn't have one). Let your in-laws worry about that possibility and (as Sisyphus said) don't go there yourself.<P>Irrationality is usually a sign of hiding from, or running from, oneself. And remember, a drowning swimmer is known to fight would-be rescuers out of panic. So try not to take what's happening personally. Just concentrate on figuring out what's right for <I>you</I> to do, and on taking care of your own needs.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Would it be wrong to try and make her jealous? Maybe see another woman while I am there, or will that only cause more problems?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is definitely a bad idea. Think Plan A. You want to stir up <I>positive</I> emotion in your wife, not <I>negative</I> emotion.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by GnomeDePlume (edited January 30, 2001).]

You guys are killing me with all the quotes!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Paul Moyers:<BR><B>You guys are killing me with all the quotes! </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>"If you want to know how you are to be saved in this world, look to your moat"<BR> George Savile, Marquis of Halifax<P>Apropos of nothing, just thought I'd throw it in.<P>

Using Plan A, what do I say to her? She has told me that she doesn't want to work things out. She goes bezerk when I mention the word counseling.<P>How do I get her to see the "the cruelty and self-indulgence of the affair "? How do I get her to leave someone who she thinks loves her more than I do? How do I get her to see past the times when her and I could not communicate compared to the present boyfriend who she thinks she can communicate with?

You don't get her to see anything. You don't make her feel anything, say anything, do anything. You can't get or make your wife...anything. At least directly.<P>Make the one person that you actually can make do something. Change the one person you can. Yourself. Try to analyze what went wrong, what was your part, everyone has a part. Fix or at least work on these things.<P>She will see on her own. In doing the above she will have no choice. Unfortunately it will be on her shedule not yours. That's why I said Plan A. That's why I said post in that group, not trying to get rid of you but hey, sorry to say my Plan A didn't work so well and that's why I'm here. Someone in that group may be a bit better at giving ideas.<P>Of course post on in any group, I found all to be receptive. <P>Good Luck and God Bless<P>------------------<BR>1Co:2:4: And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:<BR>1Co:2:5: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.

Actually been posting on both. Been getting some good information on both.

Any ideas on approaching my wife?<P>I was just told that, as of Friday, they are making me take a 1 month leave of absence here at work. I was told that my job would be here until then, after there is no gaurantee.

Your situation sounds almost like mine 20 plus years ago and continues to this day... you may want to consider clearing out now... not a very nice thing to say but I wish I'd considered it two decades ago... but then I wouldn't have my wonderful son.<P>Consider this:<P>I spoke with friends this evening who described a pattern of manipulation that seems to fit this situation (my wife of 22 years irrational behavior) to a tee.<P>Keep the good just good enough to keep you interested then push your buttons to heat the situation up. Each time raise the bar on the heat... all in an effort to control you. In each of the cases we spoke about nothing could be done... the manipulator will not accept any criticism and the manipulated person is always the one who needs to be fixed.<P>Transferrence is also involved in the pattern. What ever the manipulator does becomes the negative trait of the manipulated.<P>The problem stems from chemical or mental imbalance, abuse during childhood or just plain meaness.<P>Son, you might want to get some special help on this one... find out before you invest any more time and find out you just spent a lot of your life to be miserable, lonely and peniless.<P><BR>

A little more fodder for thought:<P>After the game a buddy and I talked until 1:00 AM. He described a situation his best friend went through with his wife similar to mine. The salient points are these:<P>1) Married 17 years<BR>2) Wife irrational<BR>3) Wife eventually commiteed for observation and put on Lithium after she said that space aliens were sent by H to attack she and the kids.<BR>4) Beautiful person in Lithium, monster without. Would quit because she didn't think she needed it.<BR>5) Wish I could get a graph on this thing to show you the behavior pattern he described. It's something like this... there is a base line of behavior..."normal"... below the base line we move to the obsequeous... above the base line we move to the belligerent. The abuser sucks you in by working way below the base line. Once she is secure she begins to push your buttons to move the relationship above the base line to see how far she can push you. Next she moves slighty below the baseline to pull you back in. Each time she moves you above the base line she pushes just a little harder. The pattern never gets better... only more frequent and worse...MY SITUATION I think.<P>The behavior is characteristic of those abused... their view is that I am not worthy of love and this guy can't really love me. Let me see just how much he loves me... I'll see how far I can push him. I always felt she couldn't be loved and always felt if I loved her a little more she would be alright... somewhere along the way I got tired of not ever being loved back so I quit loving.<P>

I do see some similarities to what you are saying, but I also know what my wife was like the before the fights, the first 2 years, not the last three months. Some day I may want to take your advice and give up for the better of the situation. But right now I want to try and try again to work things through until I know that there is no future with her.<P>I am not going to give up that easily!<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by amd-clh:<BR><B>I am not going to give up that easily!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, on the plus side it looks like after Friday you'll be free to relocate, and with a ready-made reason for moving. <P>Don't take this stuff about the STBXW being "irrational" to heart. Problems are more <I>between</I> people than they are <I>with</I> people. <P>Even a weak, unhealthy personality can grow strong in the proper environment, and even the strongest among us can be broken once a psychological weak spot is found. Sometimes two people who are perfectly healthy somehow get caught in a negative feedback loop until one can't take it anymore. Friends and family usually catch a problem like this, but sometimes it doesn't happen. <P>When you add in the prevailing attitudes that marriage is disposable, and all the leftover attitudes from the "me decade" '70s, some of us will find that we have spouses who haven't caught the pendulum that's been moving the other way for about 15 years. It's a nasty fact of life--but you are to be commended for trying to do better than that.

It is really tough right now. Now that I know that I am going, I am scared. Is it the right thing to do? I have been hearing things about my wife from her sister. Sounds like my wife might be living with this dude already. She is already spending all her time with him. Sounds like his family is doing their best to make thing work with her and him. They probably know of his drug problem and want him to get past it. Is it going to be too difficult once I am there to see the two of them together?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by amd-clh:<BR><B>Is it going to be too difficult once I am there to see the two of them together?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You should try to avoid that. There's no good reason for it, and without much effort I have avoided bumping into my XW, even though I know we like the same kinds of events. It simply hasn't happened, for whatever reason. If and when it does happen, hopefully you will have steeled yourself for it. Be pleasant and brief and gone. <P>If your STBXW tries to make it happen a lot, she is sending you a <I>message</I>, and it <I>isn't</I> that she doesn't want you. Only you can determine how to respond to such a message, but anger and withdrawal are two <I>bad</I> choices.

Now that she is almost/ probably living with him, is it hopeless? I am going to be around her family, which she loves and loves to be around. But they have been telling me that they never see her anymore. She is always with him. Am I wasting my time by going out there? Am I just causing myself too much grief by staying with the situation?

Or should I be avoiding her too?

It ain't hopeless until the last dog dies. You being around her family will likely isolate her further from them. Even though they try to accept jerkboy, their fondness for you and disdain for him will leak out around the edges. She and he will stay away from them. And it will make her unhappy. She'll have to either dump him (or bum him out into dumping her), pressure you to get away from her family, or pressure her family to get away from you. Any of it will be short-term painful, probably long-term beneficial. It's all part of your Plan A. And one of the best ways to Plan A is to have a chorus singing your praises in her ears while you keep craftily out of sight.<P>Only you can decide what's "worth it", but with your job gone, plenty of attachment still there at least on your part, and some nice folks who are probably pulling for you to get back something you seem to want (and certainly <I>don't</I> want to see stay in the hands of a drunk/druggie), it would seem appropriate to go for it.<P>At some point, if nothing improves, your Plan A will run out, and you can Plan B until that works or gets her totally out of your system. It's nice to live without nagging "what if's".

Thanks alot. That is really what I needed to hear.<P>I know that I want to go, but it is really scary to actually do it. And I am really scared at this point.<P>One thing that I will always know is that I tried everything that I knew to make things work out. 20 years down the road I will have less "What-If's" than probably my Wife.

Dear amd-clh, I chimed in a couple days ago and am trying to catch up.<BR>All of us get locked into the feeling that the person we are losing, we cant live without. We develop this "tunnle-vision" many others on these sites have talked about. We become single-minded in our pusuit of this elusive person and our love?? for them.<P>I myself would be VERY wary of relocating, chnging my job, life or anything for a person who seems to be as "far-gone" as your separated W. My friend, the world is littered with people who have thrown their life away for the unattainable, but conversely had these people never worked so hard to overcome problems, we would still be riding horse and buggies! I know I am babbling, but my point is WHATEVER you do think first! Think with your mind, not your heart. Think of the advice you would give your best friend or sibling if they were in your situation and then try following your own advice, whether it is following your heart at all costs or doing the sensible thing, whatever that may be. Good Luck. T.J.