I know many of you think I might be this big sob story and I sometimes get sick of writing all this too.<BR>I think I know what my H could do to win back my trust and improve the intimacy between us but even if I tell him it seems to dissapear.<BR>I also feel that if I completely spell it out for him (which I have) then he does it, it doesn't feel the same because he didn't think of it.<BR>I have told him that by reading more or getting on the internet and finding ways to build back trust and intimacy that it has a very good chance of working but day by day goes by and he continues his interest more that mine...

What do you think he could do that would "fix" things?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> I also feel that if I completely spell it out for him (which I have) then he does it, it doesn't feel the same because he didn't think of it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>So, instead of telling him what you want, you plan to make him guess, and punish him if he does not guess right, huh? Listen, I do understand the "it means more if he thinks of it himself" deal, but it really isn't a fair way to play. Much better to spell out the rules, let each team know how the game is played & how they can make points...<P><BR>

Jainee, Most people on this site might kill me for this answer, but here goes. My W and I tried therapy, on-line, reading, talking, etc. But, nothing worked like a temporary separation. We now talk differently, act differently & listen to each other for one basic reason. We are not on top of each other. We each have a space and by being apart we realize how much we miss each other and how much we did for each other. We never saw it that close b/4. Please do not just take my word for it, my way may not be right for u, but it worked for us. We are falling back in love and plan on making this chapter of our marriage a good one. Good lucck!! T.J.

I couldn't agree more. <P>PLEASE TELL HIM WHAT YOU NEED, then if he isn't able to do it or doesn't show interest you'll have a direction to go.<P>Leaving it up in the air that he should think of these things himself is not fair. In a perfect world, maybe this is is possible, but not in reality. If you know what you need and are just waiting for him to figure out on his, he probably never will, no matter how hard he tries.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janiee:<BR><B>I also feel that if I completely spell it out for him (which I have) then he does it, it doesn't feel the same because he didn't think of it.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That's a <I><B>double bind</I></B>--neurotic people create them. When they turn up, geniuses beat them, people who are merely healthy go away and weak people go crazy.<P>I don't expect your husband is a genius in relationships, so find a way to give him a break.

I see some points but I have told him specifically to read and communicate his thoughts to me or to pick one workbook thing to do, NOTHING!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janiee:<BR><B>I see some points but I have told him specifically to read and communicate his thoughts to me or to pick one workbook thing to do, NOTHING!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You <I>told</I> him to do those? How far do you expect to get <I>that way</I>? You need attraction, not traction. You'll even need a convincing pitch to get him to the workshop, should you find one. And yes, I know, the burden seems unfairly on you. <P>We have to assume his failings are from a lack of understanding. If you fail, you don't have a ready-made excuse.<P>There's a video series out there on renewing marriages--they run infomercials, but I couldn't find them on the web. At least not yet. It may be that if hubby gets to sit passively, he might get hooked...<P>

Definitely make him aware of your needs, in a way that would interest him - and at the same time be very aware of what he needs and try to meet his needs as well. That may be what gets him interested - you meeting his needs, If you aren't sure what those are - find out. If he can see you are going out of your way to meet his needs - chances are he will want to try and meet yours' My wife was kind of like you (I can't believe I said WAS) Maybe that's a sign! Anyways, she always expected that I should be able to read her mind about what she wanted and needed, and if I didn't, in her mind, somehow, either we weren't connecting or I diddn't care or something. At this same time however, she never asked what I needed from her - she assumed that she was meeting all of my needs 100% - and that was far from that truth.

But I can and have met his needs. I honestly think he simply doesn't get it - he doesn't know what it means to put someone else first in his life, even if I directly ask for him to try and read a book, he does for a day or two then back to his things, then I get fustrated and withdrawl, until I harp again, and then the circle begins again... I can't be with someone like that, I'm tired of trying to train him to meet my needs.

So, earlier you said you knew what he needed to do....what, specifically is it?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janiee:<BR><B>he doesn't know what it means to put someone else first in his life</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Someone should explain this to <I><B>me</I></B>, because I was doing my damndest and still hearing this one--completely and utterly baffling, inexplicable, incomprehensible, unanswerable, and as far as I can tell, simply designed to be that way and thus an all-purpose, catch-all reason to dump your man. <P>Any women who want to flame me to a <B><I>crisp</I></B> are sincerely invited to do so, <I>as long as</I> you provide a little light along with the heat.<P>

I too, would like to know more about this. I felt that I was doing everything humanly possible for my wife and yet, she would tell me the same thing, that I just didn't get it, that she always put others needs before her own and for once in my life to think about someone else instead of myself - and here I was thinking I was putting her and my kids ahead of myself virtually all of the time........

Janiee - are you certain that you have met HIS needs, or did you THINK you met his needs. I know my wife very often has told me that she feels that she has done an excellent job at meeting my needs while I have done a poor job at meeting her needs. But I know that she was doing a damn poor job at meeting my needs - like about a 1 out of 10. She would be doing things that were OK, but not that were REALLY important needs for me. In our case I believe that she was really trying to meet my needs, but really what she was doing was the kind of things for me, that she would have wanted done for herself - and thus her opinion that she was doing a very good job at meeting my needs. In effect she was trying to provide my needs with what was really her needs ..........does that sound confusing?????<p>[This message has been edited by rich1959 (edited January 29, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by rich1959:<BR><B>She would be doing things that were OK, but not that were REALLY important needs for me. In our case I believe that she was really trying to meet my needs, but really what she was doing was the kind of things for me, that she would have wanted done for herself - and thus her opinion that she was doing a very good job at meeting my needs. In effect she was trying to provide my needs with what was really her needs ..........does that sound confusing?????</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It doesn't sound confusing at all to me. This was exactly what was going on in my marriage, and I regret now that I wasn't more appreciative of my wife's efforts.<P>I had the crazy idea that if I waxed effusive over what she <I>did</I> do, that she wouldn't take me seriously when I talked about my needs that weren't being met.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus:<BR><B> Someone should explain this to <I>me</I>, because I was doing my damndest and still hearing this one--completely and utterly baffling, inexplicable, incomprehensible, unanswerable, and as far as I can tell, simply designed to be that way and thus an all-purpose, catch-all reason to dump your man.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yeah, I've heard much the same. My wife would complain that I just didn't <I>give</I> to her, when my whole life was constructed around giving her whatever she wanted. I finally responded by crying out "Why won't you <I>let</I> me give to you?"<P>What I think was happening is my wife assumed that there were strings attached to everything I gave her. Thus, instead of giving to her, she thought I was really causing her indebtedness to me to increase. I think she just couldn't believe that anyone could love her unconditionally, or that her happiness could be a sufficient reward.<BR>

Bumper just recommended iwon.com on another thread, and it coughed up this where Metacrawler did not:<BR> <A HREF="http://stores.yahoo.com/mentormerc/ligyourfirli.html" TARGET=_blank>http://stores.yahoo.com/mentormerc/ligyourfirli.html</A> <P>The "Light Her Fire" tapes' blurb seems to suggest that <I>women</I> would use it, but I think that's a copywriter's error. Of course, <I>Janiee</I> might use "Light His Fire" too. If she really cares about the marriage, and isn't just gradually picking out the concepts that validate her pre-existing decision to leave.

"If she really cares about the marriage, and isn't just gradually picking out the concepts that validate her pre-existing decision to leave."<P>Yes, I do care, I'm still here working at it.<BR>I'm trying to be open minded but as we all know feelings blind us sometimes (good and bad)<P>"Someone should explain this to me, because I was doing my damndest and still hearing this one--completely and utterly baffling, inexplicable, incomprehensible, unanswerable, and as far as I can tell, simply designed to be that way and thus an all-purpose, catch-all reason to dump your man. "<BR>I thnk a very different thing about men and women is that when women think about doing something we think 'what would be the best for US', where as men ofter (NOT ALWAYS) think 'what do I want to do today'<BR>What we women would like is a little more "Us" and "we" thinking.<BR>Have any men out there sensed this or am I simply throwing flames around??<P><BR>

I'm still curious...<P>So, earlier you said you knew what he needed to do....what, <B>specifically</B> is it?

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janiee:<BR><B>I thnk a very different thing about men and women is that when women think about doing something we think 'what would be the best for US', where as men ofter (NOT ALWAYS) think 'what do I want to do today'<P>What we women would like is a little more "Us" and "we" thinking.<P>Have any men out there sensed this or am I simply throwing flames around??</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Which of your needs are you talking about? Conversation, Sexual Fulfillment, Affection, Recreational Companionship, or <I>something else entirely</I>? <P>At times, there were problems with all these in my marriage. Some of them were insoluble. I did my best to meet them (failing at times), but <I>she</I> couldn't meet several of them well for purely physical reasons--sometimes for a long time or even permanently. With certain puzzle pieces missing, our relationship became in many ways more filial than spousal, and ultimately broke up.<P>If <I>my</I> needs weren't being met, it affected my <I>ability</I> to meet her needs (and even, over time, my <I>willingness</I>, I'm sorry to say). <P>Sorry about some of the digs. Whenever I see glimmers of what happened in my marriage it's like waving a red cape in front of a bull.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Janiee:<BR><B>I thnk a very different thing about men and women is that when women think about doing something we think 'what would be the best for US', where as men ofter (NOT ALWAYS) think 'what do I want to do today'<BR>What we women would like is a little more "Us" and "we" thinking.<BR>Have any men out there sensed this or am I simply throwing flames around??</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is not flamethrowing, I don't think, but it is not a fair statement either. In fact, in my own marriage I don't think my wife ever really grasped the concept of "us". She was either trying to do something to make me happy, or she was doing what she wanted to do.<BR>