And I'm jealous of GBM for getting sex once a month...<p>One of the major sticking points in our marriage has been the frequency of sex. I would be happy with 3-5/week. But for the 2-3 years prior to the affair it was roughly once/month. And the celibacy is still continuing (2 years), although my wife will be at the magical "6-weeks post birth" date in a few weeks.<p>For what it's worth, I've concentrated in trying to fill my wife's needs for conversation and physical affection without a mention of my needs for sex. And by the way she's treating me, I'd say that her 'romantic love' for me is coming back. I'm hoping to be able to give a successful report in a few more months on how we've solved this 'aspect' of our marriage. And if we can figure this one out, we'll be able to work on anything!

Iris,<p>Please read my post called "some observations"<br>You personify the typical woman I am talking about.<br>You ask "what if a woman is not in the mood"<br>What if a man is not in the mood for endless conversation about nothing. You ask arent sex and conversation different. The answer is NO, they are both legit. needs. It doesnt make you a better person that you dont get grumpy when sex or other needs arent met, it makes you a woman, he is a man, comparing your responses is meaningless.<br>Of course he is looking at porn, with your attitude be glad if that is all he is doing. Of course you "dont understand the importance men put on sex and sexual material" anymore than you understand what it is like to urinate while standing. You are female, he is male.<p>It seemed that you were getting it toward the end of the thread, I hope for your husbands sake and for the sake of all husbands married to wpmenn who think like that, that it is getting clearer.<p>Dont focus on the math, like someone said, 1/week 3/week etc thats not important. If you meet his needs enthusiastically frequaently he will eat from your hand.

<br>Well, it's obvious this thread is popular. I can't imagine why, though. <s> I'm repeating myself here but sex has been prety darn good in my 20 years of marriage. We average 2-3 times per week and that's satisfactory for me. My wife works and she also takes classes. On top of that we have kids so I don't see how I can demand too much without coming off as supremely selfish, something that's killed me in the past.<br>My wife drips sexuality. I've always found her to be highly desirable. I find that our sex life is better when I make sure that things outside the bedroom are handled correctly, like doing things with the boys, handling money responsibly, knowing when to splurge a little, having conversations with her and so on.<br>I counsel any man to avoid porn. I've been there. All it does is put your sex drive into warp speed and no way to satisfy it, save with the ever faithful dexterous extension at the end of your arm, which I think is highly anti-climactic (pun intended) considering the extent to which porn revs you up. The average woman doesn't like you doing it either, which contributes to bad feelings that effect how she sees you and therefore how she makes love. Not to mention that it stirs up lustfulness, which can greatly detract from being able to practice overall discipline in life.<br>I feel very fortunate not to have had many problems in the area of sex. I'm real big on romance and taking my time with the process, an area they say we men are notorious for skimping on, though I have to say that the guys who check in here don't sound like they skimp on it.<br>I'm always amazed at the number of people who report having sex on the order of once a month or several times a year. It is beyond my comprehension. My heart goes out to you all.

Pragmatic:<p>Hey guy, you seem a little on edge. I think Iris is trying to 'get it'. But I suspect that most women (apologies to you tigresses out there) will never really understand what it means to have a deep emotional need for sex. In absense of that, it would be nice if they just accepted it as legitimate. (Kinda the same way as we'll never really understand PMS--we're just supposed to accept it!)<p>So, to calm your frustrations, you might want to join me in repeating this mantra: "Ummmmmm... Ummmmmm... Ummmmmm......."<p>...Oh h**l! This won't work! I need to get laid!

The problem with threads this long is that there's too much to respond to!<p>I think we've established that affection and concersation are about as important as sex is to men (with some notable exceptions out there!)<p>Someone brought up "why should I have sex with him whenever he wants if I dont feel like it?" or something like that. Two thoughts come to me:<p>One of the partners has to "prime the pump" (OK, Lay off the "pump" comments guys! ) That is the partner who is trying to better the marriage may have to lock his taker up while his giver makes his (or her) partner feel loved and build up some units in the old love bank. Whether that's a wife who make love furiously with her H, or a man who talks, goes on long walks holding hands and tells his W how much she means to him. <p>The other thing I remember from the books is that the more a woman makes love, the more she desires it, and the more a man makes love, the less he desires it. (I think that's Harley's books, but I've been reading so much, it could be somebody else. I didn't make it up!)<p>As for the "How often" question, I like the answer Christine gave "Not often enough!" <p>Rustynail - seems like you enjoyed this thread. Why "Rustynail" as a handle though? On second thought, better not say!<p>Val

The main problem that led to our marriage crisis was infrequent sex (1-2 times a month). Even then, I didn't care whether or not we had it then. This was when kids were getting most of the attention, etc. I then went through early onset menopause. I have been on hormone treatment (prempro) for six months. I could have sex twice a day now. When the crisis started, we had sex constantly (at my initiation). Now we are about every other day and that seems to satisfy us both.

thanks so much for all of your replies. they were really depressing to me at first, because it was painful for me to see what-could-have-been if my H and i had communicated better.<p>i am working really hard on accepting what has happened to us, and trying to move on with my life. i have learned a very, very hard lesson....sex IS 100% important to some people. i wish i would have known, but i've also been able to forgive myself a little because i realize that we DID discuss our infrequent sex on several occassions, and he always told me that it wasn't as often as it seemed it should be, but always said it was OK with him.<p>thanks again for your input. very interesting!!!!

janie,<p>hope you don't mind me asking...<p>how did the early onset menopause get disgnosed ?<p>where there other problems besides sex ? I've been asking my W to ask her doctor about hormone levels for years & she hasn't asked. After all medical info that i've read, funky hormone levels could affect quite a few different things (headaches, gum disease, bone brittleness, etc.) which are all problems my W displays from time to time. So that's why i'm asking - to try to convince her to push this issue with her MD.<p>Thansk, nick

This site makes me feel even guiltier than my H does! He is so sexually frustrated that he (and I) can hardly stand it. But I feel so withdrawn from him that I have absolutely no desire for him to touch me like that. We made love about two weeks ago and when he tried to touch me to stimulate me to orgasm, I couldn't even feel a 'tingle'; it was more irritating than anything else. I know that I am still able to have orgasms by myself, but I just do not desire him. We used to have a great sex life until I "snapped" and realized that so much of my life was about his needs and that I was actually dying inside. Now it is like there is a broken circuit between my head, heart and crotch. I need a new circuit breaker..... Anyone know any electricians out there?<p>Maria

All this talk about sex is very interested from both sides. My question, though, is: Who "gives in" first? Sometimes when my H is not meeting my affection/conversation needs, I don't know if i should give in to his sexual needs to hopefully bring about him later meeting my needs, or would it be more effective to not have sex with him to motivate him in this area?. The Bible teaches as best I understand to not withhold yourself so that's what I've been doing (along with a lot of prayer) but some of the comments in this thread have made me wonder if that is the right thing to do. Maybe I am reading something wrong! Am I sending the message that I will meet his needs no matter what he does in regard to mine?

Okay, this has been very interesting...<br>A few things:<p>I don't totally agree that women don't understand a man's need for sex. I understand it, because I need it too. While I could probably go a bit longer than the average male without sex, I can survive a shorter time without it than the average female. Maybe that's why I can relate? My breaking point seems to happen a lot sooner than most females. That's what I'm trying to say. <p>I can't totally understand a woman's need for constant conversation, because, I don't personally need constant conversation. Basically, I speak when I have something to say, or ask. That's just me. Now, if something's really bugging me, yeah, I'll talk about it, but only after going over it in my mind a gazillion times first. In fact, that is something I need to work on...my hubby complains I never talk to him! Go FIGURE!! Maybe it's just too many years of having nearly exclusively male friends and buddies?<p>Now, what I don't understand, at least not completely anyway, is why porn revs mens sex drive more than the one they're with? Porn can be very stimulating, but I can't say it does more for me than seeing my hubby naked with a hard on!!! I know we women don't all look like super models, and those pix are doctored so they look perfect, is that what it is??? Just wanting to know the truth!! Are you guys wishing we looked totally perfect like that? <p>Another thing I'd like to say is this: I've had it both ways. I've been in relationships before that the sex was GREAT, but that was the only thing great. No matter what I did to please the guy, he was still a total JERK. SO, sex didn't get my OTHER needs met. But he admitted (I overheard him tell his best male friend this once) I was the best sex he's ever had. I was the sex goddess of his dreams! He couldn't even get within 2 feet of me without having to have me!! But, he couldn't love me the way I loved him. Oh well. <p>And, I've had mediocre sex, but everything ELSE was great!! It just seems like the grass is always greener on the other side...sometimes, you just can't have both, at least not simultaneously. Sucks, but it's true!

Oh, I forgot one thing. About the women who don't understand the guys sex need, and the men who don't understand the conversation thing, you should read "Men are from mars, women are from Venus". Very insightful.

This is for Christine:<br>I too am in a relationshoip where I want sex more than my h. Thakn God we're newly weds & are seeking counseling. Any suggestions? Appreciate it!

Disillusioned: <p>When we were first married, every month or two. 10 years later, 4 or 5 times a year. 15 years later -- 2 or 3 times a year. And I'm as bitter as hell about it.<p>Not long ago I decided to stop initiating sex. One thing led to another and we didn't have sex for almost a year and a half.<p>People have different libidos for sure. But when does the difference become unacceptable? Speaking only for myself my self-esteem and mental well being is strongly influenced by the state of my sexual relationship with my wife. At one time I thought I was some form of mutant because I desired sex more than once a week. Now I know that I'm not and have recognized why I was drifting towards suicide.<p>Without going into theology I still have to wonder if the Bible was written and interpretted by men with low sex drives. They were establishing principles that few people could follow in its entirety.<p>If only I could make love with my wife 2-3 times a month let alone 2-3 times a week. And every time she would genuinely desire me.<p>Adrift.<p>[This message has been edited by Adrift (edited 02-02-99).]

Adrift:<p>Most of your post could have been written by me. Although as newlyweds, we started off more than 'every month or two', now after 17 years of marriage, we're at about 3-4 times a year. And only if I initiate. Even then, it feels like 'pity sex'. And yeah, I'm very resentful at my wife's apathy. Genuine desire for me? Those days are long gone. <p>About your other point: I'm not sure that the Bible writers were men with low sex drives. Seems like there was an awful lot of 'begatting' going on back then! And of course, they had an option not available in most modern cultures--multiple wives. Do you suppose this was in recognition of the relative difference in ave. female sex drive vs. ave. male sex drive? Or maybe it was just 'cause the available male population was being regularly slaughtered by the Philistines, or some other foe? <p>Multiple wives. Now THERE'S a staggering thought. Geez, I can't keep my ONE wife happy! <p>[This message has been edited by Doug (edited 02-02-99).]

Doug and Adrift<p>Your posts about the lack of desire on your wive's parts interesting. I don't have a particularly strong sex drive and even though my husband rarely takes the time to please me, I still initiate sexual encounters quite often. I don't get much of an orgasmic thrill but I crave the intimacy and I really enjoy seeing him pleased. Maybe I'm weird.