I think I made a terrible mistake. When my ex told me that he wanted a divorce for sure, I accepted it and agreed. To make it easier on him, I filed the papers because he was moving out of state and couldn't come back for the hearing. (Actually, with his track record for completing tasks, I thought there would be legal trouble with residency or something and that it would never get done and with him being so far away, it would fall through the cracks.) I was also dating someone when we sat down to do the papers (one month after he said that he wanted the divorce for sure.) I saw my future and it looked bright. <P>I was so eager to get it over with and get on with my life. I think I was distracted by the other guy and the potential for my future without him that I didn't think about giving him more time to think. I also wanted closure after months of limbo. I am terrifed that I may have destroyed any chance for reconciliation after that point. <P>So far, I have not had any regrets about the way I have handled any of this except the filing part. Maybe if I hadn't made it so easy on him, he would have reconsidered. My main question now is what I would have done if he did. I hate living with regret, and the only thing keeping me sane was my belief that I did everything I could. In reality, I don't think I did and I can't live with that. Maybe this is a new stage of grief or something, I don't know. When people ask me who filed, I feel a twinge of guilt, because technically, I ended my marriage. <P>

Relax. A lot of stuff went on while you were both under a lot of stress. Maybe it would have been better if you hadn't found someone else so quickly, but clawing at XH trying to keep him wouldn't have helped; and your new beau demonstrated that you weren't doing that. <P>The fact that you filed the papers at his request hardly means it was your decision. Trying to thwart his intent would not have made him feel better about you ... he would have just filed in that other state, and you'd still be just as divorced (or worse, stuck in a painful limbo--from which a return to marital health would be highly unlikely).

God, Ijust can't stop thinking how easy I made things for him all in the name of plan A. In the meantime, he was seeing her (unbeknownst to me), using me for sex, and telling other people he had no intentions of reconciling. News to me. I helped him pick out a shower curtain for his apartment, gave him space, never questioned his whereabouts or timing, gave him an answering machine, gave him sex whenever he wanted it. I feel like a doormat. I am just afraid I handed the divorce to him. <P>Thanks for your response. I am often too hard on myself about things. I have always known that regret is my enemy. I just need to learn to deal with it.

So?! I feel like I was a clutching, histrionic mass of constantly shifting bad strategies. If we and our spouses had been able to perfectly manage each other, we wouldn't be here now would we?

gsd,<BR>Hi, I know how you feel. I made it extremely easy for my X. I filed for D after he moved out with OW2. I just couldn't take the rejection anymore. He didin't have to do a thing I paid for tyhe lawyer, went to court ect. All he did was sign the papers. Now he is getting married in two days. I just think I have made life way to easy for him. I don't want him back I just am angry with myself for making it all way to easy for him.<P>I have a good feeling about my future. Life is hard now but its always been hard even with him. At least now I'm in charge of my destiny. <P>Don't feel guilty about ending your marriage. He could have stopped it if he had wanted to. He seems like my X who always made me do the dirty work so he always looked like the good guy. <P>------------------<BR>live for today for there may not be a tomorrow

gsd,<P>It is natural for all of us to second guess things, and I really think this is just a part of the grief stage. Do not be so hard on yourself. You DID NOT end your marriage, you have to believe that. Your H already had his own apartment, his own girlfriend and his own freedom. To him, his marriage was over. Where would he have benefited by filing the papers himself?<P>You have already established that he is not used to taking care of things himself and that he is irresponsible when it comes to financial matters. I am also making the assumption that the divorce process was not free for you? He wanted the divorce and he got out pretty easy in that he didn’t have to do the work to get out of it. He just moved away to be with his GF and the rest took care of itself. <P>The fact that you filed the papers probably helped you out more than you think. He could have stopped the process at any point and he didn’t. You being the one to file is just a technicality. If you hadn’t filed, you would still be in limbo today, wondering what was happening with your marriage. If he had any doubts, your filing should have scared some sense back into him, not that it was a bluff, but that it was really a serious matter. He still moved away…….<P>I often wondered myself if I would have fought harder or been ‘difficult’ during my ordeal that the outcome would have been different. Truth be told, it would have just made things worse if I had acted differently. Although I did not like what my wife was doing and did not agree with it, I was cordial, helpful and supportive. As a loving man, still being in the role of a loving husband, I was trying to ‘help’ my wife get what she wanted. I even helped her move some furniture out of the house, choking back the tears the whole time, because I was doing what I thought was right, as her husband and her friend.<P>I think you gave your husband space and helped him as well because you loved him and you were doing what you thought was best for your husband at the time. You were being a good person and you should be proud for the way you have conducted yourself. None of us are perfect and given the opportunity to do things over again I’m sure we would all do it a little differently. Unfortunately though, we can’t change the past.<P>It’s been said before, but for such a small word, <B>”IF”</B> is extremely powerful isn’t it?<BR>

Hi gsd,<P>Your post has really got me thinking. I have basically given in to my wife's desires to end our marriage. <P>I sent her a card, thanking her for taking me and my son out to dinner for my birthday, and in it I casually mentioned that although I would not impede her in pursuing this course, I still believed there was enough good in our relationship to make it worth saving. She never even mentioned getting it.<P>I feel like I've given in because it hurt too much to continue, but I sometimes wonder if she needs to see a sign every now and then that I've not given up on us. I do not want to live with thinking there was something else I could have done, but for the life of me, I don't know what it is. <P>I love her too much not to want her to be happy, even if that means without me.<P>Take care...<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

cooker-<P>I wonder sometimes if I could have just done a little more. I feel like there might always be this nagging worry that if I had just gone an inch further, something could have worked. I guess I will never know. So I know how you feel.<P>Jayhawk-<P>Thanks for your encouragement. I guess I feel a bit selfish because I can't relate to what Cooker says about wanting him to be happy even without me because I love him. I am still to angry to let go.<P>Sisyphus--<BR>Yeah, I did that too!

gsd:<P>Don't second guess yourself. It won't get you anywhere except more upset. What is done is done. I gave up too and we are now divorced. We now get along better than ever. I still wonder if maybe someday we might end up together again. Probably not. But, some people do remarry after divorce. So, if the both of you ever change your minds, you could get back together. I heard it usually isn't successful but sometimes it is. My x actually has an aunt and uncle that are remarried and have been for years. I don't know how happy they are but they are married again.

{{{GSD}}}}<P>I felt the exact same way after Plan A (doormat). I am sure its part of why I rushed into a new relationship too soon. I think when you are in Plan A, you do take a lot of abuse, even though its for a great cause, to save your marriage. But sometimes, I think you might hit a breaking point, and wind up with resentment towards the stbx. Its also easy to fall for some new person because you are getting attention you may have not had in a long time.<P>I know I made it easy on my ex too. I have good days and bad days still. I am not totally happy with the way things unfolded but I know I did what I thought was right at the time, and I can't hate myself for that. <P>We all learn, and doesn't this all look different in hindsight? When your immersed in Plan A, an affair, an OW, and somewhat even competing with her, who really thinks straight?? <P>I think I saw on one of Harley's articles, he recommended anti-depressants while on Plan A. I wish I had tried that out. I figured I'd be stonger in the end, if I did it on my own.<P>I think in the end, I didn't think clearly at all, but I just try to make the best of a bad situation now.<P>I wonder, if we all won't have regrets now and then for the rest of our life? Or second thoughts, whatever you want to call it.<P>Hang in there, Dana<BR>

Whats ironic is that my ex mistook my Plan A as weakness and desperation, like I couldn't live without him. <P>As you all know, I don't think jumping on the first boat that floats by is any proof of independence or emotional health.<P>Anyway, for the spouse determined to leave a marriage, they twist your actions into any framework that fits their needs. When I acted "strong", then I was a quitter. When I told him how much I loved him and wanted our marriage, then I was weak and desperate.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheStudent:<BR><B>Whats ironic is that my ex mistook my Plan A as weakness and desperation, like I couldn't live without him. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Without gainsaying that a WS is going to see whatever they want in the BS's Plan A, it's important to note that one Plan A may not look like another. A clingy spouse may need to let go, and an aloof one may need to offer more emotionally. That's why it's called <I>Plan</I> A. If one size fit all, it would be called <B>Method A</B> and there would be no <I>planning</I> about it because you would simply follow a rote recipe.<P>And when you're getting a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" response, either the WS is well and truly done with you, or is <I>challenging</I> one of your two behaviors, which is <I>indeed</I> the correct one. If you think the latter is the case, you need to analyze which behavior is correctly oriented toward showing the WS that you're in a position to start meeting the WS's needs.<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited February 01, 2001).]

What irks me is that my plan was WORKING! He told me on numerous occasions that he respected me more, was feeling things for me that he hadn't felt for a while, and even (after 2 months) told me he wanted to reconcile and that he wanted to go to counseling. I was overjoyed! Then, one month later, he comes back from this convention trip and he has made up his mind for a divorce. No turning back. I know what I was doing was right, but I can't pinpoint where it went wrong. My guilt comes from the fact that my plan WAS working and I think I should have continued it to see where it would lead. I suppose I never really left plan A since my plan A was all about acceptance, nonjudgements, and patience. I tried to stay in that even after we filed and on. I wish I knew what happened. I guess we all ask that.

Sisyphus,<P>The former was true. His need was for me to accept his punishment without flinching. When he got tired of kicking me, then he was done. For the true abuser, they only get a "thrill" when they have a live body to work with. Kicking a "dead" body isn't so fun. Not only that, they will attempt to resuscitate the body over and over again, just to make sure it is really dead. It prolongs their enjoyment.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheStudent:<BR><B>His need was for me to accept his punishment without flinching. When he got tired of kicking me, then he was done.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yuck. I bet having been through something like that makes it much easier to take the moral position that you only marry once, and if that fails you don't put yourself in the position to have it happen again.<P>They say widows who had a good marriage tend to remarry. Maybe people for whom marriage wasn't so bad (before the breakup) are more likely to return to "the market" too. <P>As they say in legislative circles, where you stand probably has a lot to do with where you sit.<p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited February 01, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus:<BR><B>They say widows who had a good marriage tend to remarry. Maybe people for whom marriage wasn't so bad (before the breakup) are more likely to return to "the market" too.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hmm. I believe my marriage was quite good, all things considered. Mutual love, affection, and respect; no abuse; compatible values, interests and lifestyle; etc., etc. Sometimes in my darker moments I contemplate that if a marriage like <I>that</I> can fall apart, how could I possibly trust that <I>any</I> marriage has much of a chance.<P>Perhaps the only stable marriages are those where neither partner has unresolved issues left over from childhood; but how many marriages like that can there be? And if both partners <I>have</I> had such charmed lives, how prepared will they be for adversity?<P>I know strong, stable marriages are possible because I've <I>seen</I> them. But they don't happen without commitment. I could easily see myself remarrying if my wife died. But to remarry after divorce would require me to betray <I>myself</I>, and how could I then believe in my own commitment?<P>I think it might be easier for someone who did <I>not</I> have a good marriage to remarry, because it would be easier to question whether the marriage was "real" to begin with.<BR>

Sisyphus,<P>oh, are we going to have that "she's just bitter" discussion again? <P>I've already figured out that my marriage was as good as it gets for someone like me, and that is just the way it is. No sense getting upset about it or trying to fight it. That's just the way the world is. <P>Plus, I couldn't stand up and make those vows with a straight face to someone new or believe them. If they got a divorce, and they were telling me "till death do us part", I'd be thinking yea right, just like last time, huh? Naa. Can't do it.<p>[This message has been edited by TheStudent (edited February 01, 2001).]

I have been divorced a year now. I filed, but only after I had exhausted a lot of books, tapes, counseling, and seminars on how to have a successful marriage. I am a christian and ending it was very difficult. But I do not regret it. I am much better now, financialyy, emotionally, and most of all spiritually. I am concerned that you began another relationship so soon. I do not plan on dating until another year. I need the time to reconnect with me. I lost who I was in marriage and I do not intend on doing that again. That's if I get married again. I am very happy and comfortable being alone. I do not need a male person to validate who I am, nor make me feel important. I think it's unfair to move from relationship to relationship too quickly. You subject the new person to your fresh hurts and pain. I know one month after divorce you had not finished griefing. as for regret I don't have it. I gave my all. so it's his loss. I refuse to live in dread and regret about the failure of my marriage. Both people have to be fully committed to making it work and with Christ in the forefront there is no success. So slow down. Spend some time getting to know who you are and also the things you need to change or improve upon to be succesful the next time if there should be one. I am enjoying my singleness. I am a much happier mother to my two kids. I did hate the fact that they were being denied a two parent household, but my daughter who is 7 has adjusted well. She said at least there is no more fighting. There dad is involved in their lives also. So rather then think about what didn't work seek out what will and wait to be found by someone sent by God.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheStudent:<BR><B>Plus, I couldn't stand up and make those vows with a straight face to someone new or believe them. If they got a divorce, and they were telling me "till death do us part", I'd be thinking yea right, just like last time, huh? Naa. Can't do it.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Nah, won't go to the "bitter" bit. Maybe a little <I>smog</I> from the still-smoldering wreckage of the last marriage.<P>Frankly, sometimes that "till death do us part" worries me a little... O.J. living here in town is an unpleasant reminder (haven't seen him yet--if I did, I fantasize that I would walk up and ask "So, how did it feel to nearly cut Nicole's head off?" Then again, he's so <I>judgment proof</I> it would hardly trouble him to knock me into the middle of next week).

Sisyphus,<P>Smog? I don't think so, but you have a right to your opinion. <P>Well, I'm sure there are some people willing to go to that extreme. Still, there has to be some kind of happy medium between a 50-75% divorce rate, lifetime celibacy, or killing off your spouse so you can justify getting remarried. <P>I don't know what the answer is. There is obviously something fundamentally wrong with the way marriage is viewed in our culture. Marriage is really not a life-time commitment anymore for most people. It is mostly a convenient legal framework for establishing domestic matters (ie. financial, children, etc). Most marriages I've witnessed do not provide a nurturing environment where BOTH people are encouraged to grow--and that is especially true for women. It is an efficient framework for raising children, for the most part. <P>Supposedly, married women (per capita) are more depressed than single women. The reverse is true for men. According to Harley, 75% of divorces are initiated by women. Obviously, women aren't getting the same benefits out of marriage as men are, for whatever reason.