Hi all,<BR>THis is my first post in this forum. My story is in the forum GQ2. Just a brief history...<BR>My wife told me she wasn't in love with me in October. She moved out January 9. I found out about the OM in November. SHe said it was just feelings and that he wasn't going to leave his wife. She has been on a fast track to divorce since this began. <P>I think they have been having an EA for close to a year. His wife found out about the affair the week my W moved out.<P>My wife does not believe that she is having an affair and said this morning that she wanted to end this relationship first before beginning another one. I think his wife and I might disagree with her idea of not having an affair. <P>He hasn't left yet ...but I'm sure it is close and " they are in love". Two families are in destruction, 5 kids are involved and they see nothing wrong with what they are doing. My wife refuses to go to counciling except on her own. The councilor she chose is NOT pro marriage. It's more like...be true to yourself stuff. If this is truly what you want...go for it.<P>She told me tonight to expect a call from my lawyer. So I suppose that she has started Divorce proceedings. So...now my question is where do I go from here? I don't want this and I certainly don't want to make this easy on her. But I don't want to LB any more than I need to in protecting myself and my kids.<P>Any help would be appreciated. I just have this feeling that if she would give us some time this affair would burn out. He has way too much to lose.<P>Mike<BR>

EVERYONE, has alot to lose. I believe that there can be a way mature, rational individuals can realize this. We choose our own paths, children do not have this option. Sometimes , barring physical abuse, it is possible to have their best interest in mind.<BR>Which is a stable family. If it is possible to put aside anger to discuss the impact it has on the little one's, by all means do it.<BR>The focus is them, not your/her anger/hurt/ betrayel. I'll pray for you.

{{{mbtrk}}},<P>When in Plan A...<BR>...and protection (by a father <B>or</B> mother) is needed...<BR>...it is one of the few acceptable LBs.<P>If you need to <B>protect</B> yourself legally (and/or financially)... I usually make the recommendation of finding a <B>good</B> attorney. A good place to start off is at the <A HREF="http://lawyers.martindale.com/marhub/form/by.html" TARGET=_blank>Martindale-Hubbell Lawyer Search</A> site. Do a search within your county... look for only "family law" specialists(>80% in divorce/custody/etc.)... make sure they do a lot of "family law committee work"... if they know the judges all the better... You can normally find a few that will give initial counseling free of charge.<BR><A HREF="http://www.uslaw.com" TARGET=_blank>USLaw.com</A> (an alternative search site)<P>Is custody going to be an issue?<BR>...if so... consider checking out the <A HREF="http://www.deltabravo.net/custody/" TARGET=_blank>Fathers Rights To Custody(FRTC)</A>...<BR>...but beware... it is very anti-marriage!<P>You may not have time to have the affair burn out...<BR>...once you've been officially notified you usually only have 30 days to respond...<BR>...start looking for a good lawyer fast!<P> <P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000254.html" TARGET=_blank>Jim</A> / <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000037.html" TARGET=_blank>NSR</A>

hang in there. I dont have much to say to help you because I just recently found out about my wife and our divorce.<P>But I can tell you that there are some very special people here. Take their advice and know that they all know how you feel because they have been there.<P>Things will work out.

Thanks to all who have replied,<BR>My wife seems like she is on a fast track to divorce. THere is no talking about it at all. She says that she needs to end this relationship before she gets into another. THe funny thing is, she has been having an EA with this doctor for almost a year. She says that when she really new the extent of her feelings for him she knew it was time to end our marriage. <P>DOes this mean she is ready to sleep with him...or has the EA got so bad that she is blinded by "teenage love". I know that they discussed their feelings for each other back in wearly October and that is when all H*&^ broke loose. Both at his home and mine. All within the same week. I found out about the OM back in late Nov. and his wife found out about OW in January...coincidentily the same week my wife moved out of the house!<P>Neither one of them see anything wrong with the fact that they are breaking up 2 families...as a matter of fact, my WS says that she doesn't think that she is breaking up anything. His family is his problem! Right...and if she wasn't there, I'm sure that he would decide to leave his wife of 15 years and 3 kids. <P>I guess that it looks like the divorce is going to at least get started...is there any way to stall things and string this out without it costing the moon? Unfortunatly, in Maine...the waiting period is very short. They like to make things easy I guess. Maybe if divorce was a more difficult thing to do, more people would work on their marriages!<P>Mike

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mbtrk:<BR><B>I guess that it looks like the divorce is going to at least get started...is there any way to stall things and string this out without it costing the moon?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, there are ways out there to make a big mess.<P>I wonder what the law is in your state about suing OP for alienation of your spouse's affections? Maybe you and OM's wife could do it together against your STBXW and OM. Sure it would make a big mess, but I think both your homeowners' policies might pay ... <P>

A couple of things, Mike: <P>First, the affair WILL burn out. Unfortunately for you (and I'm in the same situation), you may wind up divorced before that happens. The only thing you can do now is to focus on yourself, and prepare for single life again. <P>Second: Making the divorce hard on her will not help anything. I realize that having a "civil" or "amicable" divorce is a very hard thing to do, but think about your kids. Do you want them to see Mom & Dad hate each other? Of course not. So be mature, respectful, even nice (if you can manage it) throughout this process. <P>Like Jim said, get your own lawyer, and do it fast. But don't be nasty, and don't try to "stick it to her" or anything. Just be the good guy, get what's fair, and watch from the sidelines as her and her new "soul-mate" mess things up royally. I expect that when her little fling is over, she may owe you a huge apology.

Hi guys,<BR>I just got off the phone with my W. I sit here with tears in my eyes and a broken heart. <P>I called to appologize to her for all the bad things that have happened in the last 3 months and share some things that I have learned about disrepectful judgement. I got through maybe 5 words before she cut me off.<P>She had been talking to her councilor and they have decided that my wife would be better off not talking to me. It's to hard on her. She feels that everything I say or do is disrespectful or controling. I can't win. I said that I was sorry from the bottom of my heart and that I wanted us to be friends. <P>Her councilor and her have come to the conclusion that our relationship was bad from the start. Ya...12 years we hardly ever said a cross word to one another. She says that I never had her heart and that she loved me enough to marry me, loved me enough to have kids with me, but now...she know that it is not enough. This OM is just a catalyst. He has shown her that there is someone out there that can be her soulmate. She has come to the conclusion from talking to councilor that she is 100% possitive that she is never coming back and that I need to accept that.<P>She has filed for divorce and there is nothing I can do about it.<P>She told me the councilor says that she should date 3 people before she gets into another relationship. SO guess what? This EA according to her is not even that and she is going to date 3 people before she decides if she and OM are really going to be together. She told me that she didn't want to hurt me anymore, but she was a good looking woman and wouldn't have any problem getting a date. <P>I guess she didn't think that the EA and the divorce papers were hurt enough, she had to throw that in for good measure.<P>So now I am faced with impending divorce, my best friend says that basically I'm not good enough for her, and my heart feels like nothing I ever imagined.<P><BR>it is so hard to sit here, knowing that I love this woman more than anything and there is nothing I can do except watch her self destruct. I told her this and she said...that's your opinion. I said no...that's what my heart feels. I told her that I loved her and that I was sorry and that if this blows up in her face...I'd be there for her. <P>So now what...???

Write her a letter and start like this:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Beloved, <P>I just wanted you to remember:<P>1. Good memory #1<P>2. Good memory #2 <P>(... as many as you can.)<P>OK, now that you have remembered all that, was <counselor> there for any of it? Does he have enough poison to make you forget it?<P>He may be right ... it may be time to dump me. But if you were going to have a doctor tell you some major body organ was shot and could never be restored to health, wouldn't you get a second opinion before agreeing to a transplant that might even further reduce the quality of your life--especially if he suggested you try out a few different organs?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P> (oops ... unintentional ribald irony here)<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I'd love to talk to you more, but I guess <I>he</I> won't allow it, and is making your decisions for you of who you can and cannot speak to. Just remember I'm here for you reaching toward you if you want to reach toward me."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I wish I could offer you more.

Now, you pray.<P>I don't know if there is <I>anything</I> more destructive than a bad counselor.<P>And I think it is unforgivable for any counselor to arrive at a judgement like that without hearing the other side of the story.<BR>

Sisyphus's idea is good, but if you're going to write letters, try to put the most important points at the beginning.<P>If you <I>start</I> with the good memories, your wife is liable to rip up the letter mostly unread.<P>She can't <I>afford</I> to remember the good times.<BR>

Thanks to all who have responded,<BR>You people are the best. I had a session with Steve today. We talked a bit about the forum, and what a great group of people you are!<P>Now, with that out of the way...it's seems as though my WS exhibits a lot of standard behaviors. Even after talking to Steve I still get the feeling that the situation is pretty much hopeless. I still am looking for that ray of light that will tell me not to give up hope, but it is getting harder to be optimistic in the wake of all that has happened recently. <P>I am supposed to keep on with plan A and demonstrate change when I can. The problem is now that my wife is not talking to me, it is going to be even harder to do this. <P>Steve used a great analogy about councilors today. He said her councilor is basically a singles tennis coach, trying to coach a doubles team. It doesn't work. So now besides the divorce papers, a rogue councilor and her best friend who has been in the same situation that my wife is in right now and is happily married to the OM, I have to deal with the silent treatment.<P>Is there no end to this BS????<P>I can only imagine what tomorrow will bring.<P>Mike<BR>

Mike,<P>I've been following your story from GQ, and I sure hate to see you move on to this forum. At least you have company; I too am waiting to get the "papers" any day now... <P>You keep asking if "it" is hopeless... Here's my take on it: depends on what "it" is (do I sound like Clinton now?). In other words, there is nothing you can do to stop the process, so if that is what you mean, then IMHO, yes, it is hopeless.<P>But, there is much more to life than the current fiasco. In your case, events transpired so quickly, that I bet you still feel like deer in headlights. I had the same feeling for the first few months since "the speech". But, after 6 or 7 months, I have gained a lot of stability, and have come to see things from a new perspective.<P>My marriage is in fact hopeless, but my life is not. I have learned that life will go on, and given that I am not the one who had the affair (W did), I am not the one who abandoned the kids (W did), I am not the one who left the marriage without any attempt to save it (W did), I can tell you that I feel pretty good about life and baout myself. I'll be able to have no regrets, knowing I did my best. And I will be the best darn dad to my two little kids that I can be. I suspect one day my wife will look back at this and realize how many mistakes she made in her efforts to "run away from herself".<P>So maybe I'm rambling, but like everyone told me (and they were right): the pain will ease with time, and you will see a new and better life ahead of you. And as much as I hate this way of thinking, the fact remains that even after a divorce, your W may get her head out of where it is firmly planted now and realize how much she gave up.<P>Be strong, Mike, and your kids (and maybe even your W) will respect you and admire you!<P>AGG<p>[This message has been edited by AGoodGuy (edited February 07, 2001).]

Hey AGG,<BR>Great analogy about the deer. That is just how I feel. I too have tried everything I know to try and hold my family together. Marriage is not a one person sport. <P>When I got home today from work, there was a letter waiting for me. I had left a note for my wife this morning. She said last week that she would talk to Steve for me. He asked if I might get her to do this. So this morning I left a note with the number to set up an appointment and a big thank-you for doing that.<P>Well the response note said that there was no way she was going to do phone counciling,<BR>she didn't want me to talk or write to her anymore about anything but the kids. Our relationship is strictly co-parenting now. I should love myself enough to move on and find someone to love me the way that I should be loved. A relationship where she doesn't love me is unhealthy.<P>She feels that I am emotionally abusing her! Give me a break. She can't deal with the guilt. She can't deal with the fact that she is part of the cause of 2 families breaking up. <P>No papers yet, but I suspect it will happen pretty soon. I'm sure that they are on the way.<P>she just dropped the kids off and came in the house, gave them a kiss and left without saying a word...nice huh?<P>Mike<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mbtrk:<BR><B>Well the response note said that there was no way she was going to do phone counciling, she didn't want me to talk or write to her anymore about anything but the kids. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It's been my experience that spouses, and people in general, are resistant to counseling in direct proportion to their own sense that they will be told they are in the wrong. <P>Too bad the one area STBX wants to deal with you is your children. You can't use your children as pawns in this.<P>I don't know what to say, except good luck.<P>

It is a very, very tough thing to watch someone you love self-destruct, inflicting collateral damage on you and everyone you both love. But when that person puts up impenetrable walls and seals every opening, I don't know what you can possibly do except wait and pray.<P>It's been seven months now for me, with no end in sight. In some ways it's gotten easier; in some ways it hasn't.<P>Sometimes people have to hit bottom before they can find their way back up. You've just got to hope that the bottom isn't too far down, and that it's bouncy. Because for some, the abyss is bottomless...<BR>

Mike, <P>I doubt if we have ever met, but let me tell you what happened to me, and maybe it can give you a little hope. My H left one year ago in February, and later on I found out that he was having an A. He was gone until about June, and for the summer, I thought we were trying to work it out again. It turns out that he never gave up the OW, he just felt guilty about the kids not having a dad! So, in October (Oct.24th, to be precise), I got the "I don't love you and I never will" speech, and by November he had moved in with the OW. In December, he took her on a vacation to Utah (something he would never do for me), and I was SURE it was over. POSITIVE. Convinced to my very soul. <P>All along, while he was moving in and moving out, with the OW and lying to me, at home and lying to me--through it ALL, I told him I would never file legal documents against him. We did have a separation agreement, and we even got to the point of dividing up our assets! But he didn't file, and I never would--I refused to start a divorce that I never wanted. On that one thing, I stood fast: I WOULD NOT file. If he wanted to divorce, he would have to file; and once he even told me, "You are making me look like the bad guy!" (Duh!)<P>On January 19th, I had my first date with someone other than my H in 15 years, and although it didn't turn into a huge romance, it was nice. Well, suddenly, my H started acting very angry and finally one day I nailed him down and said, "WHAT is the matter with you?" and do you know what he said?<P>"You are moving on with your life, WITHOUT ME." (Well, duh, right?) Apparently, it was a fogbuster, because right now, the man I thought was my stbx and I are talking to each other and trying to get back together!<P>What Gnome de Plume says is so true, and I literally just heard it yesterday. My H told me, "It took me a year to figure out that the grass is not really greener on the other side. It was all my imagination." He hit the bottom and it was bouncy enough to get back up to the edge, but I had to wait at the edge for a year while he ripped my heart out. <P>So is that encouragement or not? I'm not sure. It's h*ll to pay to stand there at the edge, not know for an entire year what in the world is going to happen in your life, have your heart ripped and torn, and then try to forgive at the end. But I guess it is encouragement to be patient, because it can happen. Now honestly, guys, I've been here on this forum since about August--did anyone ever think it would "turn out" for me? I didn't either! You never know. <P>So, Mike, I would encourage you to be patient, come here for support and for hugs when you can't take it anymore, and do your best to slow down the divorce. For example, could you tell her, "If you are bound and determined to file for divorce, I respect that it is what you need for you; however, could I ask for a 30 (60, 90) day hold on filing to give me some time to get myself and my things in order?" Last, I would remind you that Plan A is not only about providing for the needs of your partner--it is also about growing and learning personally, so that you can be the man and husband that you have the potential to be. Mike, BECOME the man that you can be!<P>{{{{{{{{{{Mike}}}}}}}}}}}}<P>CJ<BR><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

CJ,<BR>Thank you so much for the inspirational note. I am so glad to hear that things are ok with you! I wish that my wife would give it some time to let the dust settle. She is now like a runaway train. THe works are in motiion, and all I can do is try to slow things down as best I can. <P>She doesn't want to talk about anything, doesn't want to hear about anything, doesn't really care about anything. Her focus right now is on listening to this idiot councilor, and thinking about a new life with the boytoy doctor. The sooner she gets the divorce, the more legit her affair becomes. She then will be single and carefree. <P>I have heard that the way to get your spouse back is to make them jealous. One book I read on how to stop your divorce is to start dating someone that your spouse sees as a threat. This usually sends a wake up call. It seems that it worked in your case. I have tried everything that I know and it is not working...maybe I need to do something different.<P>Maybe it is time to just let go and let her sink or swim on her own. Move ahead with plan A and worry about me and taking care of my kids. It will be hard to watch her self destruct, but she needs to realize this on her own.<P>I read in a book about raising responsible children, that you need to let them make decisions and suffer the consequences of those decisions. If you keep bailing them out, they will never learn responsibility. Maybe I need to try this with her. <P>I probably did more damage than good during the first couple of months that I knew about this problem we were having. I probably pushed her away more than she probably would have gone. Dumb me...<P>Now it is hard to do damage control because she sees this realtionship as totally negative and won't even entertain the option of working at this marriage. She's madly in love with someone else and nothing can change that.<P>So sad and depressing for all involved. We had a pretty good marriage. Nothing to serious to work on, and nothing that couldn't have been overcome. She chose to have an affair of the heart rather than deal with the relationship that she had. So now I am faced with the possibility of going on in my life without the one person that I thought would be there "til death us do part". <P>It seems ironic that both people enter into a marriage by choice. It only takes one person to end it...not much of a partnership as far as I'm concerned. It would also make sense that there should be some way to make divorce tougher to get. With the lack of family values that seem to be prevalent among todays society, and the me, me, me attitude of the masses, the divorce rate among couples is rising. <P>Time to get back to family values!<P>Mike

Hey all, <BR>The WS called tonight to say goodnight to the kids as she was working...with WHO I don't know. She said that she was going out to get something to eat and then to a movie after work. <P>I wanted so bad to ask with who...but I but my lip and just said I hope you have a nice time. She didn't say a word. It was like she was waiting, and didn't get the response she was expecting.<P>Don't you think sometimes you would like to call the aliens up and tell them to take back the person that is here. My inclination is that they probably wouldn't want them either.<P>Mike

Mike,<P>First, for the love of God, do not go out and date someone just to "wake up" your wife. That may LOOK like it might work, but it doesn't really. What really happened is that I spent a year getting back on my feet, learning about myself and how I contributed to hurting him, and growing back into myself. Eventually, after a year, when I did finally go on a date, I think he could see I was myself, I wasn't gonna fold, and I was moving on--that and his OW had four kids under the age of 11yo!<P>Mike, I know it seems like awful, painful times to you (and it IS, don't get me wrong), but I think the best thing you can do is to slow down the train. Here's a tough question to ask yourself: what is it about the OM that attracts her to him? Does he take the time to talk to her? Does he understand, whereas you don't understand? I'm not accusing, just making suggestions. Does he compliment her? Does he notice the nice little things she does? This is a really hard question to ask yourself and answer truthfully, but being honest will give you a solid clue about what SHE NEEDED that you were not providing. <P>{{{{{{{{{{Mike}}}}}}}}}} I'm so sorry you have to go through this. Like I said in one of my posts, I couldn't agree with you more: it takes two to go into the marriage and only one to end it. This is being done to us, and there's not very much we can do about it. <P>You'll be in my thoughts and prayers,<P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.