Hey old friend, <P>I was just wondering how you were doing? If you ever feel the urge, jhawk93@kc.rr.com <P>I'd like to keep in touch.<P>Shawn

Hey Shawn,<P>That is weird, I was just thinking that I have not been to these boards for a while! I had to pull back a little from spending time here - work was beginning to suffer (I was spending a fair amount of time each day reading and posting).<P>Anyways, just to sum up the past few weeks...<BR>My W and I began talking on the phone again a couple weeks ago. The calls themselves were great - I mean we have not spoken like that in well over a year - we made jokes, laughed a little, etc... Unfortunately, the subject matter, well for lack of a better word - sucked. She is still set on going through with everything. <P>But there has been a change occuring in me that began about 2 months ago - And it was a direct result of coming here to this site.<P>It was a post that FaithfulWife wrote that did it. In her post she asked me if I had truly given my marriage over to God. In my mind I thought I had, but the next few days of thinking led me to believe that I really didn't. You see I still thought about things like "If I did this...." or "what if I say that, maybe it will help" and the only outcome of those thoughts were negative. They were bringing me "down" and causing my days to be totally encompassed with thoughts of my W.<P>Well one night I sat in my room and "let it all out" - I let the emotions come out (and out and out and out...). I then said a prayer and made the decision to totally "let go" of things - to put things truly in "His Hands". Truly believing that if it was meant to be, then it will.<P>Would you believe from that day forward it has felt like I am a new person? I am actually happy most of the time. My confidence is coming back. Don't get me wrong, not a day (NOT ONE DAY) goes by that I don't think about my wife. I do. I just decided that if she changes her mind and if I am still unattached, then I will give our marriage one more shot (even if it is after our divorce). Sure I know it would be tough - but that is one thing you and me always agreed on - marriage is tough! But it is worth it!<P>Back to the phone conversations. After a few of the calls, I realized that the reason our communicating had changed, was due to me and my feelings. I was saying whatever I felt - not once did I get mean, in fact I held my ground on a few sticky issues. But I spoke without fear of how she would react. The confidence in my voice was showing through.<P>Then it hit me. To really get myself back on track, I had to do what I felt was "right" in this divorce. I called her and told her that she could have "everything" she asked for in the divorce (most of which was just items she felt emotionally attached to). I even said that I would pay back all the money we owed her father (I'll be borrowing from a couple people to do it. And I told her that). I went even further by telling her I would give her the TV since she was moving into an apartment and I knew she did not have one. What is amazing is that I did this all, knowing that she is already dating someone else.<P>Friends and family think I am nuts (except for a few). But you know what, saying those things to her gave me such a feeling of happiness. I promised myself at the start of this whole mess, that I would not let this situation get ugly - that I was a good person and that I wanted to hold onto that at all costs. After I hung up the phone with her, I knew that I had accomplished that goal 100%. Sure I stumbled along the way, but throughout the whole process I remained a mature adult and a loving husband.<P>Right before I hung up with her the last time, I received a "gift". She asked me "what is up with you? Why are you being so nice?". That was all I needed! I told her:<P>"because #1 I still love you. I don't believe in this divorce - never have, never will. I think it is a mistake. BUT, I will cooperate if this is what is going to MAKE you happy. That is what I want for you - to be happy. This is who I am - this is who I have been all along - you were just too angry to see it. I am not the person you left, you would be very surprised. Sure I was an emotional wreck for a couple months, but that was to be expected - how could I not be a wreck knowing that I was losing someone whom I had known and loved for almost nine years of my life. The person that knows more about me than anyone on this planet?"<P>I followed up that call with the perfect card - it was written for relationships that were ending. It said exactly how I felt. In it I wrote that I still loved her, always will but that I am going on with my life and if she has a change of mind to never be afraid of contacting me. I wished her well and thanked her for our marriage, for our life and for her love.<P>The divorce is going to court I believe in early May. By that time I will have been "working out" hard for well over a year (same weight, 220lbs, but about 5% less body fat), I will be sure to have a tan, and if things go just right, I may be starting a new job with a salary well in the six figures (something that just blows my mind - if it happens). The house will have undergone some serious renovations as well. So when she comes by to get the rest of her stuff, it should be an eye-opening experience for her.<P>I have admitted to myself that in some ways I will always love her. And if that is the case, then I need to focus on the good memories I have of us. <P>Anymore I will be walking through a store or watching a movie and something will remind me of her - The greatest part about it is that it actually makes me smile and feel happy (with just a small bit of sadness).<P>She is a special woman. I'll miss her.<P>Now for you, post back to let me know what is going on! And don't be misled, I still have what I call my "DD" days (Days of Despair) every now and then. It is just that as time goes by they are occuring less and less. And I am actually beginning to "look" at the opposite sex again! whoo-hoo!<P>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

Gosh, Mike it is so good to hear from you again. Like Jayhawk, I was beginning to wonder what happened to you--or what was happening anyway. It sounds like there has been quite a metamorphasis in your life.<P>One thing I have definately learned is that God is a God of miracles. In a million years, would you have ever believed that my H would open his eyes and that the fog would lift a little? Not me. I had more or less given up and started to accept that it was over and move on with my life. Now that we have decided to give it one more try, it has been very hard--mostly it's hard for me to forget the OW and it's hard for him to respond gently to me over and over again--but I am just still STUNNED that I even have the chance!! YAY!!<P>Now, I am so glad that I stayed on the path I was on and learned about me and learned some of the hard lessons. Okay, it may seem like a miracle straight from God, but some days it seems more like h*ll (naughty CJ!), and I'm glad I have learned how to persevere and how to look to the future and how to be myself and how to stay myself and how to respond gently in the face of anger and humiliation--man just everything. <P>Mike, I know this sounds strange, but God is teaching you these things for a reason. You need to know the things that you have learned. Furthermore, I firmly believe that what you have learned will be tested, and you will have the chance to practice what you've learned. <P>I am so glad to hear from you, and I hope you know that you are always in my thoughts and prayers. <P>{{{{{{{{{{Mike}}}}}}}}}}<P>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.<p>[This message has been edited by FaithfulWife (edited February 21, 2001).]

I wanted to let you (Sotired2000), know that your post inspired me <BR>Thank you.

Mike,<P>It’s good to hear from you and it sounds like you are doing great! I’m really happy and proud of you. Your openness, honesty, opinions and insights have helped me out tremendously through the past 6 months or so. Man, has it been that long? Actually, it’s now just over 8 months for me since my (ex)wife moved out. Where did the time go?<P>I’m really impressed by your latest post and somewhat inspired as well. Even though my divorce is final, I’m still at a place where I am trying to win her back by pursuing a very subtle plan A. Of course, I am still living under the delusion that what I do or say will have some affect on her. It hasn’t in the past 8 months so why would it now right? I’m getting closer to letting go with every passing day, but a part of me feels that if I truly let go, then I have quit and I’m not about to quit. Unlike yourself and CJ, I have not reached the point of leaving this in the hands of God. Maybe that should be my next step because I need something to change. I either need to see something positive from her, or I need to allow myself to move on. I’ve heard it said that the definition of insanity is doing the same things over and over and expecting a different result! I must be completely insane J<P>Aside from that, things are actually going rather well. I have made enough changes around the house that it is starting to feel like it’s mine rather than still “ours”. I have been going out with friends and doing some things I enjoy that I haven’t done for some time. I also started dating, but am realizing that I am not ready for it. It’s an incredible feeling to be thought attractive and to be wanted by someone, not to mention it does wonders for the ‘ol ego, but it’s taking a toll on me psychologically. I don’t feel guilty about in any way, no feelings that I am being unfaithful or anything like that, but I’m not being true to myself. I have been hurt by my ex and I am not about to cause myself even more of it by doing something that I’m not ready for. The dating has been fun, but that is being put on hold now for awhile.<P>I’ve started giving serious consideration to new career possibilities, one of which could involve a relocation to Boulder. If you remember from many months back, I mentioned the desire to move out that way. Well, that desire is still there and now there is the potential that it may happen. I’ll just have to see how I feel about it if/when the offer comes. It will be a major decision for me, but if I’m ever going to do it, now would be the time. I mentioned the possibility of it to my ex in an email, but as usual, I received no response. It’s become the norm now that she won’t respond to anything regarding more than just small talk and the normal pleasantries. I did talk to her briefly the other day when I was painting my room and she seemed to take an interest in that which surprised me. I’m not sure if she was interested because she used to be in charge of decorating and now I’m changing some of her good work or what, but it struck me as rather humorous that she was interested.<P>I’m really tired of analyzing every single thing she says or does too. I’m not getting any answers and it’s not helping me. I have been a good husband, a good friend and an overall good person for as long as I can remember. If she can’t see that and isn’t willing to step out of her fog, then I really do need to let go. I liked what you did with the card….maybe it’s time I stop fighting and let this be decided by a higher power. That isn’t quitting is it?<P>Thanks Mike, I think I know what I have to do……<P>Keep in touch.<P>-Shawn<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jayhawk 93:<BR><B> I’m getting closer to letting go with every passing day, but a part of me feels that if I truly let go, then I have quit and I’m not about to quit.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Shawn,<P>Can you believe that I was actually "scared" to stop trying? I am finally able to admit that I was scared that I would stop loving her... That blows my mind thinking about it. And I don't understand exactly what I was scared about - losing her for good? Not being able to find anyone else? or just scared of the unknown?<P>But once I did - I honestly did stop trying, something interesting happened - I felt better AND I still loved her. The love did not just go away once I chose to live my life again! I was able to see that letting go was not me "quitting", rather it was just taking another route. If I confess to having a strong faith, then I need to back up those words with actions - I needed to truly believe that God will do what is best for the both of us - whether that means together or apart from each other. <P>Before I was loving her selfishly - I wanted her to come back because it would have made "me" feel good (and I rationalized that I would be able to make her feel good). But that is not what love is about, at least not as far as I am concerned. If I love her, then I need to want the best for her. Maybe for now that means letting her "be on her own".<P>If she comes back - great! If not, then I know God has something else in store for me. Am I back "on the market" for other women? Yes and no. I am not out there looking, but I do notice being "looked at" sometimes. If I just take things slow, God will put someone in my life at just the right time (if that is what He sees for me). Until then I will just keep moving.<P>My advice to you: Truly let go. Don't give up, just let go. It is so hard at first, but gradually it gets easier. Over time I promise you that the memories you have of the two of you will make you feel good once again (and not so sad). Try to stop focusing on what you need and want as it concerns your X. Tell yourself that what she is doing, she believes is right for her. You may not respect her decisions, but don't be mad at the person, be mad at the actions. Let her learn her own lessons. Listen, you and I both know what the majority of men are like "out there", right? I really can count the number of truly good men I know on one hand (sorry ladies). Let her see what is really out there on the "greener pasture"... she will find out the hard way. Don't forget our dedication to making this the "Year of Shawn and Mike"!<P>And I promise I will check back here every now and then to stop by and chat!<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

CJ,<P>There was an interesting chapter from a book I am reading written by Wayne Dyer (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...62/sr=1-1/ref=sc_b_1/103-0519467-9276612) that talks about the past. He relates it to looking at the wake from the back of a boat as you are speeding across the water. The wake is there, but it has no "power" over the boat - it is only a reminder of where the boat has been. As the boat moves further and further along, the wake gets less and less until it is nothing. That is what your "past" is like - it holds no more power over you, other than that which you give it. If you choose to simply give it no power, you can turn and focus on what you do have control over - the future. Another person has put it "The past does not control the future".<P>I am so absolutely happy for you in that you and your husband are making a "go" at your marriage. Just be sure that you both are looking to the future, not your pasts. Try not to dwell on what happened - for the more you think about it, the more it will cloud your mind and emotions. Dream of your future, don't live in the past. True you need to learn from the past, but do it in a positive way - do it for the future.<P>Remember that this turn of events was in fact a gift from God. A gift He wants you to treasure AND to work with. You knew it would be tough when your husband came back, nothing worth while is ever easy.<P>Finally I go back to one of my favorite songs that my wife gave to me several years ago. It was written by Clint Black and it is called "Something That We Do". What a great song about love and marriage. Love is not something that we are "in", it is something that we "do" everyday. Notice that I did not say "something that we get or receive", it is something that "we do".<P>It is good to hear your news! I am so happy for you. Now the hard part begins - putting your marriage back together. But what an amazing oppportunity you both have in front of you - to truly fall in love with each other again. Not many people get to fall in love with their spouses all over again!<P>God Bless and keep you both. May He constantly remind you of what His love is all about. May He be ever-present with you both as you seek to repair the gift of love He has given to you.<P>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

Mike,<P>I LOVE your thoughts on the past being the wake of a boat. The wake is there, but it has no "power" over the boat - it is only a reminder of where the boat has been. What a great description! As you know, I had a childhood that involved physical and emotional abuse, but I learned in counseling about the "wake" concept. IMHO, too often people will blame their current bad behavior on past abuses, etc., and that just is not the case. I may have been beaten as a child, and that may influence the models I have of anger and violendce, but as a mature adult, I am responsible for how I behave now. I am responsible if I react in anger and yell--it is not because I was beaten as a child. Yes, I may have a higher hill to climb to learn the proper ways to respond, but I'm still responsible to learn it and to do it. <P>I also LOVE your thoughts on love is something we DO, not something we FEEL or GET or RECEIVE. I think we can receive love as our day unfolds, but once again, IMHO, real love is putting the commitment into ACTION when you don't "feel" like it! The funny thing I am beginning to learn is that the "feelings" will come if you are actually doing the actions. Is that kind of like, "If you build it, they will come"? <P>I'll look up your book on Amazon.com--are there any other books you'd recommend? I'm an absolute bookhound (probably to a fault!), and I would hold any of your recommendations in high regard. <P>Now, I'll share with you the lesson I am learning, and it is a hard one. I call it, "cruising." When we first were talking about trying again, and when we first started reconciling, almost every day we learned something new, did something new, and tried something new. We have started to talk about the MB principals (for example, he likes the Love Bank image). We have started to talk about honesty and being trustworthy. We have DONE some things to bring back some trust. Well, it has been about a month now that we have been talking again, and one of my HUGE fears was that we would gradually slip back into "the way we were", which was just AWFUL for me. DON'T want to go there again! Anyway, in the effort to "not go there", I was trying to learn, do, or try something new all the time. Recently, I have been learning the lesson of "cruising".<P>"Cruising" is not stopping the progress or going back to old habits. "Cruising" is taking a breath, relaxing the strangle-hold, and realizing that not every day is a new revelation and step forward. Some days are just DOING the new thing you learned last week. Some days are just enjoying the fact that we are sitting on the couch together. Some days are a success because we didn't love bust, we didn't fight, and we didn't forget some of our lessons. In other words, I'm RE-LEARNING to quiet my spirit and put my full weight back into God's hands. <P>Gosh, I don't think I can ever learn that lesson too often. I keep thinking, "If I do this..." "If I learn this..." "If we...", and yes, I do believe that God wants us to put our whole beings into this (don't get me wrong). But, I have been learning to "cruise"--to quiet my spirit, to listen to myself, to listen to what I know I need to do and act how I know I need to behave. It's so hard to get quiet and just DO what I know to do. Usually, my mouth wants to rattle on and on (but then again, I am a woman, huh?) <P>Well, it is great to hear from BOTH of you men again. I love you both, and I look forward to your book recommendations, Mike. <P><BR>CJ<P>P.S. Just out of curiosity, what is your favorite book of the Bible? Start with Old Testament, since I'm Jewish, but lay on the New if there's one that you REALLY like!<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

It has been a while since I posted here myself (at least as frequently as I had) and it has been even longer since I wept while reading the posts. I have been searching for 8 months (and still am) for a way to let go, hold on, move on, forget but still remember, and I am lost in the paradox of it all. Both my ex and myself have oscillated between wanting to distance ourselves from each other and trying to be friends. We keep coming back because there was connection that he has tried to deny. That is what I want back but know I can't have.<P>You said that you had to do what you felt was right in this divorce. I have always believed that, and I received a ton of criticism for it. I helped my ex pick out a laundry basket when he moved out, never yelled at him, always was considerate and patient--often times grinding my teeth to do it. <P>But the paradox of letting go without giving up still escapes me. For months, I have struggled to get over him, never once afraid that I would stop loving him. I [b]wanted[b/] to stop loving him. Unlike you, I do not think I want my husband back in my life as my husband although I love him with all of my soul. He is emotionally unstable, needs therapy, and is financially irresponsible. But where does that leave me? Still loving him and clinging (with my tiny pinkie finger) to a hope that he will come home despite my above statement. <P>I know that I have given up actively trying to "make" him come home. I have surrendered this to a higher power, which has give me a good sense of peace--particularly because, like you, I am being true to myself. I don't call, write, or talk to him. I do not send him cards or ask about him. But it is easier for me to do this because he is in a different state now. I have stopped trying to have control over what I can't control.<P>My biggest question now is what is my obligation to him? When do I really get to say enough is enough without guilt? How far can my marriage vows take me by myself?<BR>

<B>Mike</B>,<P>I'm closer to CJs situation than yours, and I too like the wake concept.<P><B>CJ</B>, You asked Mike, but if I may be so bold, how about a favorite Bible story, rather than a whole book? I'm partial to the story of Joseph. Talk about a story of redemption despite betrayal! It also has the element of his being thrown in jail for refusing to commit adultery with his bosses' wife. As I recall, after several decades of the whole thing playing out, he remarked to his brothers "you meant it for evil, but God meant it for good". What a perspective.<P><B>Shawn</B>, Are you still thinking of leaving the IT field? Career changes are tough, but if you're going to do it, better sooner than later. I know this from experience.<P>Now, I mean no offense to Kansas, I have relatives there and my dad was once mayor of Dorrance, KS. However, if I had to live somewhere cold, I'd certainly pick Boulder over anywhere in Kansas. Mountains and scenery are really nice. Alas, we don't even have any hills worthy of the name in Houston.<P>Steve

Wow! Gsd, your post is really a mountain to tackle, and it's going to be difficult to explain. <P>You wrote a couple of things that I am going to lump together. You wrote: "I have been searching for 8 months (and still am) for a way to let go, hold on, move on, forget but still remember, and I am lost in the paradox of it all...You said that you had to do what you felt was right in this divorce...But the paradox of letting go without giving up still escapes me...What is my obligation to him? When do I really get to say enough is enough without guilt? How far can my marriage vows take me by myself?"<P>I can only answer for myself, but maybe my experiences will help you. When my H first left, naturally I was devastated and acted like a crazy person to get him back. I had no clue of any of the MB principals or any of that, but I got my hands on the book "Relationship Rescue" by Dr. Phil, and it made a big difference in my life. I know this may sound odd, but that book helped me to see that I had to be honest with myself and how I contributed to this disaster. It also helped me understand that I could change me A LOT, but no matter what I did, I could not change my H. He would have to do that himself--he'd have to want to change too! <P>Well, that was a step down the right road, right? Next, I found Marriage Builders, and began to learn about Plan A and Plan B. Almost immediately I realized that Plan A was about making CJ the best CJ that I could be. It is not about doing everything my partner wants, his way, etc. It's about making myself the woman that God intends for me to be. It's about becoming the wife the I have the potential to be, and I have the potential to be an awesome, loving, sexy wife. Now, as I become more and more the woman I am and the woman I should be, the theory is that my H may see some of what attracted him in the first place. Then again, maybe not! I can not control him.<P>That's the paradox thing. I can control and change ME, but I can not control or change HIM. I can't "make" him do anything, but I can chose whether or not I wallow in self-pity or allow myself to feel joy. I can not even make him love me. Even if I were to become the "perfect" wife, he may still be the imperfect husband and he may chose to stay imperfect. So, my focus needed to stay on keeping myself on the path that I knew was right, and when I learned something new, to get onto that right path. <P>Like you, I got a lot of flack from my friends and neighbors for treating my H civilly. I wasn't mean and harsh to him, but I was exactly all lovey-dovey either. I treated him with the dignity that he deserved, and I honestly tried to be helpful so he could learn the stuff he needed to learn. But I couldn't force him to learn it!<P>The paradox to a way to let go, hold on, move on, forget but still remember is that you let go of thinking your actions can affect what he will do or not do. Let go of trying to do things to save the marriage. Let go of the "If I..." thinking (you know, If I do XYZ, maybe ABC). It is out of your hands.<P>Hold on to good things you learned. Hold on to the ways that you have grown, as a woman, as a wife, etc. Hold on to love memories. Hold on to fact that your H is a man deserving of love and deserving of being treated decently. Hold on to doing the right thing, even if other people tease you for it. Hold on to your faith in God. <P>Move on to a new way of living and thinking. Move on to learning as much as you can and DOING what you learn. Move on to actually BEING the woman you learned you can be. Move on to trusting other people again. Move on to loving--on all the different levels. Move on to maturity. <P>Okay, I think you get the drift. Gsd, you made a vow, before God and your family and friends that you would love this man until you two were parted by death. In this instance, the vow has been broken. But you know what? I believe monogomous marriage is a goal to which God would have us aspire. But like all goals, sometimes we don't meet the goal. Like all goals, it's something you strive for, and when you achieve it, that is the reward. However, I think God gave humans free will, and He realizes that sometimes a silly human will use that free will to purposely chose to do what they know is wrong. I think God knows that our spouses have chosen to use the free will to pick the wrong thing, and I think God also knows that we are weak and frail humans. Like almost all times when we do the wrong thing (lying, cheating, stealing, etc.), the thing to do is admit the mistake, make it right, and learn from the mistake so we don't do it again.<P>Love you, gsd! It's good to hear from you!<P><BR>CJ<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Steve,<P>I really don't know if I am going to leave the IT field or not. The positions I'm currently looking at are all in the IT field, but in areas which are a little bit different than what I am currently doing.<P>I agree with you that living in Colorado and all its beauty is a far better thing than being in Kansas, but this has been my home for the last 31 years. My family is here and it would be a very difficult thing for me to do if I were to pack up and move to another state. I'm not against doing that, it's just that the opportunities have to be right. Only time will tell.<P>Take care,<BR>Shawn

FW_<P>Thank you for your post. Your words were wise and very hopeful. I have tried to remember something I heard once: "When you forgive you in no way change the past, but you do change the future. " That is our power.<P>

gsd,<P>Let me see if I can explain a little clearer. I think the one statement that has helped me through all this has very strangely been appearing in my life, time and time again over the past couple months. Quite a few people have quoted the following to me (and up until recently, I don't really ever remember hearing this phrase before!):<P>"While God may hate the action, He always continues to love the person".<P>What a powerful statement that has become to me. Can you imagine people murdering your own son and still loving them? <P>Then just the other day someone told me to always think of "WWJD" - "What Would Jesus Do" if He were here, whenever I was making a decision. <P>I guess you can say I put the two of those statements to work in my life.<P>I love my wife with all of my heart - always have and in some ways, even if we are apart, always will. That is a fact. If I can accept that fact, that truth, then it becomes much easier for me to separate her and her actions. God never said we could not hate people's actions - He only said we must love the person. <P>[Now this may sound all "holier than thou" type of mumbo-jumbo, but if you knew me in person, you would realize that I am a regular 30 year old guy who likes the occasional "off color" joke, who sometimes slips out a four letter word, and who likes to go out with the guys. I really don't believe that you have to read the bible every minute of the day or you can't have fun, or even that you can't get in a little trouble every now and then - for God to love you. I think everything in moderation is a good way to live.]<P>With that said, by focusing on my wifes recent actions for the hate and pain, I am able to revisit ALL the wonderful times and places we shared together. And just thinking about them makes me feel good. For I "know" who my wife is deep-down. I sometimes think I know her better than she knows herself, or better than she likes to admit to herself. <BR>One memory that I treasure goes back to whenever we used to rent movies: In the first few seconds of the tape a message pops up saying something along the lines of "This film has been modified to fit the screen you are watching" - the first time she saw that she had no idea what it meant so in this little squeaky innocent voice she said "what dat mean?". Sounds silly, right? Well now that I am watching a good number of movies by myself, EVERY time that message pops up, a HUGE smile overcomes me. I may shed a tear or two, but I don't feel sad - just happy for the memory.<P>As far as "moving on" is concerned, I think back to when I met my wife. I had been "playing the field" for about 3 years before we met. In all the girls I met and went after, no one really seemed to be "the one". Then one night, totally out of the blue, totally unexpected, I saw her. So many things had to have happened "just right" that night for us to meet - and they did. <P>I talk/write from personal experiences not so because I like to hear myself "talk", but rather because I feel that maybe some of you may have similar thoughts and/or feelings and/or memories. By voicing these thoughts, I hope that maybe we all can relate to each other a little better and realize just how similar all our lives are. It has happened to me here on these boards time and time again. I read something someone has written and it is like it came right from my own fingers. It helps give me a sense of comfort - a sense of belonging.<P>Now I look at my life. Why should I have to "force" myself to "move on"? What is "moving on" anyway? When God feels it is right for someone new to come into my life, I am 100% certain He will put her right in my path. As long as my path is the one He wants me to travel down. So without putting pressure on myself to "find" someone new or to move on, I am able to wake up each day mostly happy. To just live for the day, not knowing what will happen next.<P>All I can say is it is working for me.<P>No matter what you do or try, keep trying. Keeping moving, keep searching. But all the while be happy. Know that you will get through all this - we all will. Try to remember the days when you were so in-love with your spouse and KNOW, REALLY KNOW that you will one day feel them again, whether with your current spouse or with someone new.<P>God Bless and keep.<BR>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

FaithfulWife,<P>OK, first off keep in mind that I am and have been raised Catholic, which means that while I may know many of the stories in the bible, when it comes to chapter and verse I am at a loss Recently I heard a priest talking about this issue - that while most Catholics may read the bible, they don't study it to the point of knowing chapter and verse. He then went on to say something that I did not even realize - He said that if a Catholic attends mass for three years, he will have heard the "entire" bible. He said that the way the readings of our masses are assembled, they cycle throught the bible once every three years. Ya learn somethin every day!<P>But if I have to really pick two areas of the bible, I think my first would definitely be II Corinthians(?). Mostly because it talks about what "love" is. And not just husband/wife love but love in general. And I think it is the 13th verse(?) that is so often quoted by Christians and non-Christians alike - "Love is kind.......and above all three things remain; faith, hope and love, with the greatest of these being love". I think that says it all.<P>The other area of the bible that only recently has become meaningful in my life is the story of Job. When I look at all that happened to Job, how can I possibly be mad, sad, or upset at what is going on in my life - my problems so pale to his in comparison. And Job's faith - what a spectacular example of true, unwavering faith....<P>Now the books. For the self-help person in me, now don't laugh, I have read and listened to a lot of material from Tony Robbins. OK you can snicker a little - most people do! But seriously, I played sports all my life and I think back to the times I really excelled. One thing that all those times shared was that I had a great coach. That is all Mr. Robbins claims to be. Most of his material is not new (a lot even comes from the bible) - He is not some genious. What he is, is a good coach - a life-coach. And just like with any other coach, you only excel if you listen and let yourself be open to being taught. For me, Tony has a way of motivating me to get past my procrastinations!<P>Since my wife left there have been a couple books that I have read that have meant a lot to me. Dr. Dobson is an excellent writer and I would recommend any of his material. <P>One book which I had a strange reaction to is called "Conversations With God". It was a weird book for me. The concept I took to heart - that you can truly talk to God and He will answer if you listen, just like a regular conversation you may have with a friend. Sure it may just be your own mind or conscience talking back, but isn't that God too? It is actaully kind of fun - sometimes when I am walking my dog, I go through little conversations just as if He is right next to me (but NOT out loud - I do have neighbors!). I talk to him in language that I use every day - sometimes even a four letter slip occurs If for nothing else it has helped me come closer to Him - viewing Him as a father, but also as a good friend... <P>There were also some radical ideas brought up in the book that I really didn't buy in to - but, they challenged me and I like that. For when I am challenged on a belief, I get the chance to learn to either strengthen that belief or to perhaps change my belief.<P>Another book that is just so amazing is called "The Vow: The Carpenter's Story". Its about a newly married couple who were in a tragic auto accident. The wife forgot who her husband was and learned to love him all over again. The husband stuck by his wife in the most trying of circumstances. I read it in one sitting - couldn't put it down.<P>And finally, my companion, my morning coffee - Streams in the Desert. It has a short reading for each day based upon a one-line passage from the bible, then expounded upon with other poems and writings from many different Christian writers. I can not tell you how many days that morning reading has specifically applied to something that will happen that same day. It helps me get my day moving in the right direction. I pick it up even before I roll out of bed! I spoke to the woman at the bookstore and she told me they have a tough time keeping them in-stock!<P>Then there is Tom Clancy for enjoyment.<P>Now there is mine, what about yours?<P>Mike <P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

Mike, <P>You are a tickle!<P>Being a Jewish person, I look primarily to the Old Testament, but I have looked at the New Testament books too. I personally like the book of Daniel, and he has become my current hero. If you remember, he walked the straight and narrow path, did the right thing inspite of considerable pressure to do the wrong thing, and his life was blessed by God. I also like the book of Ruth. She is my hero too. She was a gentile who loved and married a Jewish man and chose to become Jewish herself. When her husband suddenly died, her MIL told her she was free to go if she wanted, and her response was, "Don't ask me to leave you or to return from following you. Where you go, I will go. Where you live, I live. Your people will be my people, and your God will be my God." WOW! You talk about faithful!! And she was blessed by becoming the grandmother of King David! <P>Here's the part I got a tickle out of, though: the conversation with God. When I was very little, I made a funny mistake that changed my life. You know the Lord's Prayer? Well, I thought it said, "Our Father who art in heaven, Howard is thy name." So, I always thought of God as a guy named Howard whom I could talk to easily! You have to admit, it changes your whole perspective of God if you envision Him as a guy named Howard! <P>Anyway, now that I'm older, I realize what the real wording was and stuff, but the feeling that God is a person I can talk to in almost normal conversational style has never really left me. For example, when this whole ordeal first started, I was talking to Him one time and said, "Why are You allowing this? What are You doing?" and He said, "Well, I would prefer for you to hear my whispers, but you weren't hearing that, so I had to hit you over the head with a fry pan. You heard that!" Now, I mentioned the fry pan reference to another person I was praying for at the time, and he thought it was hilarious (and somewhat crazy) to think of God and a fry pan in the same sentence. I believe the quote was: "I don't think I've ever thought of prayer and frying pans in the same thought." <P>Well, thanks for your responses. My favorite regular books are: "Relationship Rescue" by Dr. Phil, "If Only He Knew" by Gary Smalley, and "If You Meet the Buddha On the Road, Kill Him". It sounds unusual, but it is a GREAT book!!!<P>{{{{{Mike}}}}} It's good to hear from you!<P><BR>CJ<P><P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

"Howard"?<P>Thank you so much for the laugh!!!! You made my day!<P>Just so you know you are not alone - I am 100% Polish (and proud of it! And I love all the jokes!) - anyway there is one line in our mass that goes;<P>"...and for the good of all His church" <P>Well when I was little, I "heard"; <P>"...and for the good of His Polish church"!<P>Here I had always thought that God favored Polish people !!! Oh well!<P>PS: I never told anyone that!!! <P>Have a great weekend!<BR>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

SoTired-<P>I know what you mean about the sense of belonging. In a way it makes me so sad to read some of these posts--particularly the ones rom new people expressing hope, frustration, or confusion. They all ask the same questions and the outcome is sometimes so predictable. It breaks my heart.<P>One thing I will say about all of this. I have never, and I mean never, have had such a period of time in my life when I felt at peace with decisions or outcomes. It has been hard coming, but I actually have no regrets. I thought I would be singing the "what if" song, but I really haven't because I know that what I have done has been honorable and true. I, too, have found a tremendous amount of faith that God will somehow work all of this out for me. Even my mistakes and pain I am grateful for. Not the pain, but the experience it gives me. What an amazing feeling. In that respect, I think I have found a way to let go.<P>On the other hand, I still have this little glimmer of hope he will rush back to my doorstep, call me in tears, or crash miserably as a result of his decision. That is not fair to him, and with that I sometimes struggle. I have overcome a lot of my bitterness because I know it only hurts me and deep down I really don't want to hurt him.<P>