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#683082 02/21/01 09:48 AM
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Well, the news went down last night. I had told WS that I had to get away for a "trial separation" for a while and the housesitting was the chance to do that. She "lost it", of course. You know she tells me that she loves me more than anything on earth, blah blah blah. Then why the hell "sleep with the enemy"? I know fog and all of your other SAA terms (I've read the books), but, sorry those "excuses" don't hold much H2O with me. Later, we told kids that mommy and daddy needed a "little vacation" from each other. It's not as if they've been oblivious to the situation, what with WS crying ALL of the time and all of the yelling, name-calling, tension, etc. 14 year old daughter "lost it" also. She has a few friends from "unhappily" divorced situations and obviously fears that ours will be similar. And maybe it will be, who knows? That's not my goal, I assure you. We assured them that it wasn't their fault and that it doesn't change our love for either one of them. It was our problem, so to speak. 14 year old asked if I was "moving to Florida" and I said of course not, I'll still be here for you no matter what. WS was a little out-of-hand all night. I slept with little boy and daughter slept with wife (don't start on me about the problems of that - I know). WS woke me up crying at 2:30, 4:30 and 6:00, saying "don't leave me", wanting to make love, etc. I told her we would talk tonight (Wed), I had to get some sleep, though. I took a Xanax for the first time in 2001 last night. Do any of you get headaches from those? I do. Anyway, to respond to some of your posts and then it's back to solving equations....<P><BR>A Good Guy - The funny that I was referring to was that you were the ONLY one that actually answered my question and you blatantly stated such. It just cracked me up at the time, since everyone else was focused on doing exactly what I told them NOT to do - talk me out of leaving.<P>cjack - Leaving is not going to be a quick process for me, if it happens. You advocated "leaving slowly", and that's the path that I intend on following. I have an appt with a lawyer Friday and I have a whole legal sheet of q's for him.<P>Just Learning - You are SO right. As I told WS, I felt like all of those years, I was protecting her and my family from OM and she sleeps with him now? It's just too much to handle. Joe Smith down the street? I probably would have forgiven WS by now. But the wound caused by her and sicko is too deep to heal. Facts are facts. WS told me last night that I had an "obsession" with OM. I said (pardon my French here) "you're goddamn right I do". After all, this cat threatened my life many times and tigers just don't change their stripes that quickly.<P>MikeC2- Hell of an idea. Meeting the [censored]. Keep in mind, I'm 5'10", 170 lbs, in shape, white collar, master's degree versus 6'3", 300 lbs, overweight, blue collar, hs dropout. I fear for my safety, but meeting in a well-lit place, with protection, may not be a bad idea. My friends have all told me to use my gun to kill him. Yeah right, like I'm going to let WS and OP ruin the rest of my life. Don't think so - no one is worth that. I am seriously considering meeting the "8 ft monster", though. Thanks for the suggestion.<P>FreeAtLast - Thanks for seeing my side. The 2 years that you spent untrusting, suicidal, sick, etc. is EXACTLY what I don't want to go through. In fact, I refuse to twist in the wind much longer, as I have for the past 3 months. That's why I'm leaving - Life can be better. Yeah, it won't be easy, but "stopping the pain" is a good start. And EVERYTIME I look at WS, I feel pain. Thus, I need to "not look at her" for a while. Probably a good LONG while. We'll see though. Thanks again for your words of wisdom.<P><BR>Sisyphus - You say that I need to ask God to get rid of the wrong feelings of a married man who loves my wife. But that's my point - I don't love my wife anymore. It has seeped out of the top of the hourglass for a few months and it's gone now. All on the bottom of the hourglass. Yeah, the "stay side" is longer on the list. Because the ramifications of divorce are about twenty-fold. But the arguments for leaving (mental well-being, learning to enjoy life again, rid of the pain, find mate with more in common, and yes "play") carry more weight. No, I'm not Slick Willie, but I never got the chance to meet people like me. Who have my interests. Who I can go to the gym with. Who I can talk politics with. Who can look at the checkbook ledger BEFORE writing a check. Who can help me with household chores. Who has the same ideals as I do. Who doesn't withhold MAJOR traumatic events from me for 13 years. Playing IS NOT about "revenge", as you say. Trust me, if I wanted to enact revenge, I would have by now. Finally, when you say separate "by the book", which one? Is there such a "separation manual"? I would think not, as they come in all shapes and sizes. I'm doing what feels right to my personal well-being, though.<P><BR>Kenneth - Thanks for understanding...<P><BR>Love, Peace and Harmony.... (yes, I love the Smiths)<P><BR>Brad <p>[This message has been edited by BradTheDad (edited February 21, 2001).]

#683083 02/21/01 10:02 AM
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"Should I Stay or Should I Go" - the book on controlled separation:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0809225131/qid=982770736/sr=1-1/ref=sc_b_1/105-4071060-9135118" TARGET=_blank>http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0809225131/qid=982770736/sr=1-1/ref=sc_b_1/105-4071060-9135118</A> <P>When you do the separation, remember to talk a lot on the phone. And remember that love is a choice and a commitment, not just some ephemeral feeling. When you say you don't love your wife, what you mean is that you don't feel loving toward her. I assure you, the former hasn't changed, and the latter can be changed.<P>The "trial separation" seems the best thing for your situation. One thing you might want to do is write as gentle a letter to her as you can about your feelings as they now exist. Women understand feelings. Then tell her not to panic. Tell her that there though you can offer no guarantees (you may simply no longer be able to uphold your marriage vow), you will do your best during the time away. You will try to achieve quiet in your own soul, and clarity as to what you should do next. Tell her you need more from your marriage than you've been getting, and what those things are. <P>Then work to forgive. A woman withholds MAJOR traumatic events from you for 13 years? And you blame her for doing that instead of crediting her for finally working up the courage to tell you something that was obviously <B><I>so distressing</I></B>? That's fog, buddy. Your wife didn't <I>owe</I> you that confidence. To expect it was to hold her to an unrealistic standard.

#683084 02/21/01 10:19 AM
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The problem that I have with her telling the 2 traumatic events now is why now? When I've got one foot out the door? Why not tell me during our marriage? Is this a "last-ditch" effort to gain compassion and keep me home? Is she trying to use these events as an "excuse" for her affair? Was our communication that poor that she could never tell me these things sooner? Did they really happen? As you can see, my judgement has been further clouded by these bombshells that she dropped.<P><BR>Brad

#683085 02/21/01 10:28 AM
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Why not make the charitable assumptions: that she told them in an effort to rebuild trust, and because you were at least somewhat understanding about the affair and she now felt more comfortable opening up to you. <P>I don't think she believes for a moment that the events leading up to the affair <I>justified</I> her actions, but I wouldn't be suprised if she wasn't seeking to give you more understanding of why she may not have been as stalwart as she meant to be. <P>And since she <I>did</I> have an affair (and with the <I>worst</I> person to have it with, in your book [look at the bright side, she didn't come between you and any of your friends!]), communication <I>must</I> have been lacking to the point where she didn't feel like she could tell you.<P>As to their truth or falsity ... in the unlikely even that they're false, her psyche is going to <I>great</I> lengths to find ways to hold on to you. Her lying would <I>not</I> be cynical manipulation. It would be a sign that a soul in torment is doing whatever it can to hang on. But I would bet they're <B><I>true</I></B>, especially if she (at that time in the distant past, not the recent affair) took up with a big bad guy that she unaccountably believed would protect her. <p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited February 21, 2001).]

#683086 02/21/01 10:29 AM
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Brad,<P>Forgive my asking, but I'm new to your story. What was the traumatic event your wife recently confided in you? This maybe very important in explaining what is going on in your relationship.<P>

#683087 02/21/01 10:38 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BradTheDad:<BR><B><P><BR>Yeah right, like I'm going to let WS and OP ruin the rest of my life. <P><BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>you already are.

#683088 02/21/01 10:39 AM
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Sorry, Kenneth. I can't tell what she divulged to me recently. I would be violating her trust and I can't do that. It ain't pretty though, if it's true. NBt I fear that she's using the events as an excuse for her affair. And try as some may to connect traumatic events, there is no excuse in my opinion. Only selfish desires.<P><BR>Brad

#683089 02/21/01 10:43 AM
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Soulloss - BINGO! That's why I need to leave!<P>Brad

#683090 02/21/01 11:00 AM
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Brad,<P>I will respect your honouring her confidence. Just let me tell you about my situation, which may or may not apply.<P>Married 15 years, seperated 1 year. W had abusive childhood (psychological and sexual abuse), also raped twice during late teenage.<P>It has been well studied and documented that adult survivors of CSA (child sexual abuse) experience profound after-affects. These affects include difficulty in maintaining an intimate relationship, compulsive casual sexual affairs, they seek out abusive partners, some have multiple personality disorder, flashbacks, triggers, explosive rage, dissociation, regression, and many other symptoms of post-traumatic stress syndrome.<P>Many of these happend to my wife, with the obvious consequences to our relationship. The sad fact of it is, she can't help acting like that because it's part of her mental illness. It doesn't excuse her, but does explain her behavior. She has finally entered therapy to treat this condition, too late to save our marriage, but I hope she will find peace.<P>If this situation is similar to yours, then your wife needs help from a qualified therapist. Not just anyone will due! Encourage your wife to contact your local rape crisis center for a referral to a therapist specializing in adult survivors of CSA.<P>There is something else you can do for her. Be a good friend. That might not be easy for you given all that has transpired. So at least be someone she can trust. That means no more fighting, or critisism, or judgmental comments. <P>A temporary separation might be a good idea to help calm the waters. I take it you don't feel like having sex with her, and it would be a good idea not to. Just expain to her why: that you want to try to rebuild your friendship without sex getting in the way. This will really help her regain trust.<P>Just a guess.<P>Kenneth

#683091 02/21/01 11:28 AM
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Just one observation on this thread and the other.<P>Brad, have you ever made a mistake?

#683092 02/21/01 11:33 AM
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<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by grandpabri:<BR><B>Brad, have you ever made a mistake?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>GPB: That's a <I>very</I> dangerous question and I'm surprised you would ask it. I know how <I>I</I> would answer if I were him. So I'll just ask, other than the obvious one he thinks he made, has he ever made one or more <I>other</I> mistakes? [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>

#683093 02/22/01 12:33 AM
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Brad:<P>Have you done any counseling? Have you tried with one of the Harley's?<P>I'd suggest that you spend some time working on that for the next six months. Regardless of your separation (or not) state. But seriously pursue some counseling before you decide to divorce. Your arguments for how much easier your life will be after leaving simply aren't based on the way MOST people feel after leaving a marriage---you might be unique in that regard, but I doubt it.

#683094 02/22/01 12:47 AM
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Brad,<BR>I read through your previous posts and in one you said if a person isn't happy in their marriage, they should talk it out, go to counseling, and if that doesn't work, then separation and divorce.<P>You keep saying that you have been unhappy in your marriage, did you try any of these steps??<P>It seems you are using your w's affair as a reason to get out of the marriage. If you can't ever forgive her then it is probably better for all of you to get out of the marriage.

#683095 02/21/01 04:26 PM
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Brad, I for one am not going to tell you that leaving your wife is unjustified in your case.<P>However, I suspect that if you do leave her, you may well regret it. I am a believer in temporary (not trial) separations, and so I think the housesitting idea is probably a good one. But beyond that, I think I can pretty much guarantee you that if you run off and start to play around, you will feel end up feeling a hell of a lot worse than you are feeling now (and yes, I am using the term “hell” as a unit of measurement: the hell someone else puts you through is of a different order than the hell you put yourself through).<P>Oh, and one other thing. Three months is barely any time at all, and is <I>certainly</I> not enough time to make life-changing decisions, particularly when you are under severe emotional stress and incapable of rational judgment.<BR>

#683096 02/21/01 06:44 PM
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Brad,<P>I also likes Mikes idea of meeting the "monster". The good news is you are in shape and he isn't, but meet somewhere where a friend or two can hang around in case this is a problem. <P>In fact, depending on what kind of dragon you want to slay, I would meet him and talk with him, with your W in attendance. Maybe not sitting right with you, but to hae her walk in with you (on your arm) might just send a message that you are the winner here. It is just a question of if you want the "spoils". [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>Brad, I am not trying to justify what your W did but it seems to me she is not aware of the situation she put you in. She is not aware of the "depth" of your situation with OM and that having sex isn't going to fix this. It does seem that it is her answer for many problems, in many cases she is right. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com], but not all.<P>I also liked someones suggestion of writing down all of the things you feel she hasn't done as a good W to meet your needs. I would start the letter off with the things you like about her and felt for her, and tried to do for her (such as protect the family from OM), and then list the failures as you see them.<P>Why do this? Well, I have two sneaky [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] reasons.<P>1. There is still the chance that with time you will heal. Actully, you will heal no matter what. But the marriage may heal, however, it can only heal in a manner acceptable to you if: your W truely understands the depths of your feelings for OM (obsession right [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com] ), she becomes a woman that you like to have as a W, and you let yourself have the time to heal.<P>2. If the divorce is to go through, it is very important that you and W stay on reasonable terms. That means she needs to understand what she did, even if a. you don't give her a chance to change or b. she won't change. Why? Well your oldest daughter (Yes, she is YOUR daughter) is very bothered by this split apparently and she will need your support for a long time. That will require that you and her mother deal with each other especially during the teenage years.<P>Your younger son will require both of you to raise him properly even if divorced. This will also require that you and W interact. Again if she changes abit, it will make it easier on you to meet her half way on the many issues that come up when children are involved.<P>In another words Brad, you have to lay the ground work for your future and your children now. It will take months to do this. <BR>Interestingly, from my end of the telescope this is going to require that you work with your W as if you are trying to rebuild no matter which decision you make.<P>So why not leave your options open. Tell her you aren't going to divorce her for awhile at least. Tell her what you need and show her what it would take for her to become the woman you would even consider being married to. Finally, work on the relationship in a way, that no matter your decision your W and you come to understand each other better and can deal with each other about the children.<P>She needs help right now and frankly you need time, a bit of space and a plan. Those equations may make you a living, but they aren't going to let you live. [Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]<P>So do the trial separation. But also get somethings on the table with W. Help her so that she can be the mother she needs to be and can work with you in the many many years to come, because as long as you have children you two will have to deal with one another.<BR>Make sure she understands you and your motivations, these seeds planted now will yeild you a much better crop, than oiling down the field.<P>God Bless,<P>JL


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