<BR>I need the collective wisdom of the group to help me communicate with my stbxw. I'm steamed right now and I need to get some rational input before I do more damage.<P>We're separated as of Feb 17th. Divorce is in the works.<P>We have somewhat of a non-traditional agreement about visitation. We have 4 children (19, 16, 13, 10) and our current arrangement has each of us spending roughly equal time at the house with the kids. She will have the house, I live in an apartment and come to the house to see the kids while she......goes wherever it is that she goes when I'm with the kids. We alternate weekends.<P>Topic 1:<BR>Last weekend was mine to spend with the kids. The oldest was working, the youngest spent Friday night with me at my apartment (her request, I've never put any pressure on the kids to go to my place). Saturday I had planned to take whoever was interested either 1) bowling, or 2) to the YMCA, or 3) both. The 16-year old wanted to go, the 13-year old didn't, and the 10-year old did. The oldest was working. It sounded fine that the 13 year-old stayed home, because stbxw wanted to be at the house doing some cleaning and stuff. So I took those that wanted to go and left the one that didn't. The ones that went also got an additional treat, because we stopped for a hamburger before going home after working out at the Y.<P>Issue: Now stbxw is irate that the 13-year-old should have been invited to get a hamburger, even though the decision to stay home instead of participating had already been made.<P>Question: Am I in the wrong for not inviting the one that declined the invite? It would have been no problem to extend the invitation, but it would have meant an extra hour of driving to pick up before eating.<P><BR>Topic 2:<BR>The 19-year-old's birthday was Sunday, during my weekend with the kids. He still lives at home, but he works and pays for his share of some expenses like car insurance, phone bill, etc. Stbxw's mother invited him to celebrate his birthday at their house, which has been a family tradition since time began. I made no fuss about it except that I arranged a small short celebration before he left with the rest of the family to go to MIL's with a cake and traditional birthday stuff. He was upset that I wasn't going to participate - this was the first family event that I've not joined with the whole extended family, and I think it hit him a little hard. When he came home, I was still at the house doing some financial stuff. He found me, hugged me, and asked if we could do something together. I suggested we go roller-blading, and we scheduled it for a time when I don't have visitation rights for the other kids - he's 19 and my thinking was that since he's no longer a minor, he can decide when he wants to do whatever.<P>Issue: Stbx is furious because I scheduled something with the 19-year-old on a day when I don't have legal visitation rights. She thinks the other kids will feel bad because only one of them gets to roller-blade with me.<P>Question: Should I forgo a bit of one-on-one time with my oldest child on a day I don't have visitation with the others because they might feel bad? The reason they will feel bad isn't my fault, is it?<P>Any and all comments will be appreciated.<BR>

O2bsane,<P>With regard to the second question. Your 19 year old son is an ADULT. He will not be part of any legal visitation schedule. He lives at home because he wants to. It seems to me your STBX is missing the point. He went to her mothers for the traditional B-day, but he realized you were left out. What your STBX is missing is that you two seem to have a very sensitive 19 year old adult son. He seems to be far more aware of things than most kids his age. (Notice I still refer to him as a kid, although he is legally an adult ) So I would tell STBX that she should be proud of the 19 year old and to pipe down since he won't be part of any visitation.<P>My reponse to question #1 is that the 13 year old had his/her chance and choose otherwise. STBX got to spend time with 13 year old, quit gripping. STBX needs to realize that since this marriage is coming apart that the children are going to get hurt, because there is no way on God's Green Earth that you two can treat them equally, especially when you are separate/divorced. She should have thought of some of this awhile ago.<P>Actually, it is important for the 13 year old to realize that ships won't turn around at sea for him/her. That her dicisions have a consequence, and finally that everything is not equal.<P> Of course the person you should be lecturing is STBX, but we know that won't work.<P>So my vote is that you did well. STBX is trying to compensate for the desolution of the family by making everything "fair" and it won't work.<P>Now off of my soap box. <P>Good luck and God Bless,<P>JL

<BR>Thanks, JL, that helps more than you realize.<P>It's amazing to me that stbx whines about this stuff, when she just came off a weekend where she got most of Saturday with one of the kids, and all of Sunday evening with them - on my weekend, and without a hint of complaint from me.<P>This is another case of the WS finding things about the BS to complain about to justify their actions. I went for years, trying to save this marriage. Now I'm actually looking forward to the end of the pain.<P>

I concurr...<P>JL knows the way it has to be.<P>My 18 yo son is still trying to maintain as much contact with his mom (WS... moved 80+ miles away)... as posssible.<P>If he want to see her...<BR>...I put no pressure on him...<P> <P>Jim

I couldn't have put it better than JL.<P>I hope this 'nesting' is just a temp thing. My sister and her husband did this while they were divorcing 10 years ago and it was very difficult for them. The sooner you can get this part over, the better.<P>Good Luck. I couldn't do it.

grandpabri,<BR>I disagree. For awhile, my H was coming here to be with the kids, sometimes overnight. It was much, much better for the kids. For awhile, they still almost had a father to the youngest four. I would come home to find the younger ones curled up on his lap. He read them bedtime stories on the nights he was here. My son even said that he was glad that he was seeing more of his father than he expected. I would gladly have continued "nesting" forever.<P>As soon as he filed, he started to grow distant from them Then the OW cracked down on him and stopped allowing him to spend time with the kids here. Then she stopped allowing the kids to spend much time with him at all. Now the kids don't trust him. He has no clue what is going on in their lives, nor does he really seem to care. <P>o2bsane,<P>Have you considered allocating time to spend alone with each of the kids, outside of normal visitation? That is the one good thing my H has done, although it is only once a month per child, and the poor youngest one gets stuck spending her "one-on-one" time with him with the OW too, because she is too young to protest. It is good for the older ones though.

o2bsane,<P>Just to share our experience, we went through the adjustment period that you seem to be experiencing now. I sounds like you both have the best interests of the kids at heart, just a matter of how you work out the visitiation needs a little fine tuning and tweaking until you all get used to it.<P>By the time we were divorced two years, ex had given back custody of all three children to me. She has my deepest respect for that, it isn't easy for a woman to do. But she realized that I could offer the kids a more stable home, and she was still able to stay in weekly and sometimes daily touch.<P>I think what happened is that ex and I just argued about everything a couple can possibly argue about. I developed the customary "it was all her fault story" and she had the corresponding "it was all his fault story". There came a point when we both just got bored with arguing with each other over the whodunwhats of a dead marriage. Time helps a lot too, and now we actually work together to help both our children and grandchildren.<P>From the sounds of your post you have a pretty good handle on what needs to be done. I think you are making it clear to you children that you are the father, not just one of their pals. And while you are maintaining your role of father, you are having a little fun too. Can't beat that.<P>Sounds to me like you have pretty good instincts. I'm glad you accepted the responsibility to resolve all doubt in favor of your own best judgement. That's what good Dads do best.<P>Bumper

I thank each of you for your support. It means a lot to me.<P>Jim,<BR>I've tried to put as little pressure as possible on all of the kids. The 19-year old has always been very mature, but he still only has the life experience of a 19-year-old and he is, as JL so astutely observed, extremely sensitive. (How do you do that, JL? ) I've followed your story for a long time, Jim, and I stand in awe of your dedication and committment. I wish you well.<P>Grandpabri,<BR>The "nesting" idea is actually a modification of our original plan, which was for each of us to live in the house during our custody time. STBXW put a stop to that when she realized she would have to share things with me. I thought it would be best for the kids and wanted very badly to work it out that way, but W said it didn't feel "divorced enough" for her.<P>I've followed your story too. Your situation interested me for a couple of reasons, and not just because of the non-traditional nature of your relationship. I hope you are able to find peace...I remember well how hurt you were.<P><BR>Nellie1,<BR>I do have quite a lot of time one-on-one with the kids. They're very active in a diverse bunch of sports, so a good part of my time is spent driving them to practices and games. We get some pretty good visits in that way, and have quite a lot of fun besides.<P>The image of your little children curled up in their dad's lap brought tears to my eyes. I used to read to my kids a lot. Now my youngest likes to read to me. I wouldn't trade those precious memories for anything. I hope your husband is able to develop some self-respect and backbone before he loses out...maybe it's too late. I grew up in a home where my father was largely absent due to my parents' divorce and I was determined not to do that to my own children, but I have had to accept that there is only so much I can do by myself to prevent it. All I can do now is get as many minutes with my kids as I can, and make every one of them count.<P>Bumperii,<P>Having my W give me custody would be a dream come true. The first thing my oldest said when I told him about the separation and pending divorce was "How come you're leaving us here with <I>her</I>?" He suggested that she be the one to leave. I told him that I considered fighting for custody but that I'd probably lose the house and everything and still lose the custody fight. He understood...at least he said he did. Anyway, thanks for the kind words, and good luck to you.<P>--<BR>o2bsane@hotmail.com<BR><p>[This message has been edited by o2bsane (edited March 07, 2001).]