<B>TMD</B><P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>This is a website it is not real life.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Your absolutly right. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The idea that you can form better relationship here with someone typing on a computer screen using an alias than you can with those in the real world!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I believe that you can do just that.<P>Look around,read all the different posts from all of the boards.So many people here having trouble in their M's and the main fact that their SP completly disregards the Harley Principles.<P>Having 2 people that not only believe in the MB ways but utilize the principles everyday.That is having a better relationship.<P>Now does that mean that everything will be rainbows and sunshine........um,no of course not.We are all human and are not perfect, no relationship and M are perfect.But I do believe that it does give the relationship a head start.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>but it was not intended to be a dating service.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Of course it isn't.What difference does it make that people met here rather then somewhere else??? <P>Some people seem to forget that this is not only a Divorcing forum......but it does include with the slash/ DIVORCED. <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>People who come here are in pain and vulnerable and others can take advantage of that.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No one here has taken advantage of anyone.<P><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Anyway I don't normally come to this forum I just stopped by to see if someone I recommended this site to had posted. Thankfully they have not. I am going to refer them elsewhere.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>That is trully sad.I feel sorry for your friend that will not have the opertunity to learn grow and maybe even have that chance of SAVEING their M.<P><BR>Gina <BR><P>------------------<BR>"If we deny love that is given to us,if we refuse to give love because we fear pain or loss,then our lives will be empty,our loss greater!"-----Anonymous----

TMD<P>You are right about one thing, you don't get it. Are you so brokenhearted yourself that your vision is clouded by pain and anger? Why do you begrudge others, another chance at good, fruitful, worthy relationships? There is nothing directed at you to warrant snide remarks. I am puzzled and concerned with your venom on this post. <P>Like it or not, cyberspace has become the real world. The world is a much smaller and closer place because of it. People do reach out and touch each other as never before. It is real, it is deep and it is important.<P>The comments pertaining to friendships that are perhaps deeper than those known previously, simply speaks to the subject matter. In the "real world", as you put it, our guard has to be up out of necessity. Could you turn to your coworker and talk about your spouse's affair with details? Could they advise and guide you? Would they be comfortable with your pain and tears? How about your neighbor? The friendships on this board "start" at a place that most never attain, pure and brutal soul-baring. I am so sorry that you have not personally found comfort here. It is here, if you look. Why have you chosen to post to this particular subject? I don't believe you were looking for your "friend". What is it that we can help you with? Let us try.

hey you guys,<P>I know Australia is far far away, and it takes a while for news to filter here, but did you have to leave me completely out of the loop!!!!!!!!!!!!!<P>To all of you going to VA Beach, I'm going to smack your bottoms!!!!!!!<P>So now, on top of all the tequila, I have to bring crates of champagne to celebrate.....<P>Medic, does Gina mind that we live together??.... Or did you boot me out and not TELL ME THAT EITHER............LOL<P>Seriously, though, I'm so happy for all of you who have found some happiness again. God only knows we all deserve it.<P>I don't know who TMD is, but had he/she followed some of the stories of those involved, he/she wouldn't be asking the questions. Or making those judgements. For those that I do know of here, we all tried so hard to stay with our spouses. Make our marriages work. But one person can not fix it by themselves.<P>So, it's 11 am here Monday, and I'm raising my cyber champagne glass to you all. You all deserve it, and I for one am so happy about it all. You have only my blessings and my love.<P>You guys just wait till I get to VA Beach........ I just cannot wait.<P>Now, who's on here from Brisbane......... just joking!!!!!<P>big hugs to you all<P>Jo<P>

Brisbane???? I best start saveing my pennies <P>Bill

TMD,<P>For all it's worth, this place has resembled a dating service at times...at least in my opinion. In my time here, I've discovered that there is sometimes a very fine line between betrayer/betrayed, divorced/married, whatever. <P>I don't think your remarks are snide at all, and I don't think you are necessarily bitter or angry either. You don't need to make a blanket assumption based on one thread though.

Hey WilliamJ,<P>start saving my friend. Although with the A$ the way it is, one pay packet of yours would probably feed you for a year over here!!!!!! And pay your rent and entertainment bills too..........<P>Did you know about this......<P>I feel sooooooooooo left out. I CAN keep a secwet (as my baby says), I can, I can.......<P>But isn't it great. Who cares where happiness is found. As long as it is genuine and honest.<P>Have to go, a friend has just dropped in.<P>Jo

Freeatlast,<P>Question for you. When did you first become involved with your MB guy? On a different thread, you were encouraging BradtheDad to dump his wife (or something along those lines). You admit your spouse was remorseful and contrite, but that you couldn't forgive him. I was just wondering if your decision to get a divorce happened to coincide with your new relationship on MB? It is alot easier to make the jump if you have a safety net, is it not?<P>If you decided to divorce before coming to MB and did not start a relationship (internet or otherwise) before your divorce was final, then you have my humblest apologies. Otherwise, well, see my previous post....

Well.... Just my .02 worth.. I don't think this is a meat market.. <P>I think that things can/do happen. I may actually have an opportunity to make things work with my H right now and I will do anything possible to try and make that happen. But, I can say, that were we divorced and I ended up meeting and being attracted to one of the individuals that I have met on this board I certainly wouldn't say "NO" just because I happened to me them on here first. <P>I have heard from so many wonderful people on this site. There are several who without some inspiring words and kind e-mails I feel like my days would have been much longer and harder. I don't post often anymore, mostly because of the "friendships" I have formed with a few of the board members. I feel like though, if the marriage is over and two people want to meet and see what happens.. WHO CARES WHERE/HOW THEY MET??? <P>

Hello Student,<P>Some clarification for you. Divorce was filed for 4 months before I ever laid eyes on this forum. It was a dark miserable time and I came here for support. I fought for 2 years after discovery. Discovery being a 10 year affair of my husband's. After that day, the discoveries just wouldn't stop. Let's just say he was a Verry busy boy. Still I stayed and worked my behind off. I was a faithful wife of 22 years, that never changed.<P>I have never "encouraged" anyone to leave their marriage. Have I supported the notion that in some cases that things are beyond repair? Yes. That sometimes everyone is better off by moving on? Yes. There is a certain percentage of us who cannot live with the magnitude of horror brought into our lives.<P>I have no safety net. I wish I did. I am a woman alone, trying to find her way. I wish every family could survive and thrive in spite of infidelity but it's not always possible nor healthy.

Freeatlast,<P>Ok. Like I said, my humble apologies. My question was for the sake of clarity, and I very much appreciate that you provided it. Best Wishes...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> don't get it I guess. This is a website it is not real life. The idea that you can form better relationship here with someone typing on a computer screen using an alias than you can with those in the real world! And God's work goes on at this site! Wow! Yes there is a lot a good information here and it provides great support for those going thru terrible situations but it was not intended to be a dating service. At least one individual here has used it that way. People who come here are in pain and vulnerable and others can take advantage of that. Anyway I don't normally come to this forum I just stopped by to see if someone I recommended this site to had posted. Thankfully they have not. I am going to refer them elsewhere.<BR><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I would guess you have a very rigid view of life, a J personality. and I would agree, you don't get it.<P>This isn't real life? are we making up our stories? are we making up this pain? just because we can't be seen and have monikers, does not mean we aren't real or that we don't discuss real issues or feelings. are divorces and infidelities of only people you have seen real? that's a pretty small world you live in.<P>Your statement about forming a better relationship is somewhat skewed, or based solely on your set of emotional needs. if you value attractive spouse, financial security and recreational companionship, and you limit your statement, of course you are right. you sound like my X, who would dissect discussions down to minute portions, take the idea out of context, just to prove me wrong. bring her back to the original concept, she got stuck. you are right under very narrow conditions, yours primarily.<P>So, because a few people dated, it becomes a dating service? that is black and white thinking, extremist analysis, don't you think? people meet at work, and actually get married, more so than here, and yet under your label, work is a dating service?<P>People are in pain, and vulnerable, but should not be afraid of life just in case they might happen to meet someone interesting! and you know, people learn the most from mistakes, most of us here have,<P>you've been here a year, this is a place for recovery from divorce, not recovery from affair and still want to married to the same partner. BTW, i suggest that the frequency of this same event is HIGHER at an in person, local, divorce recovery group. <P>there, you don't have to travel 1,000 miles to consumate your interest with a date! funny, that's a pretty big barrier, and offers to keep the odds of your dating service very low.<P>tom<BR>not a good weekend, not a good first day at work for this week! <B> except for delia! </B><P><p>[This message has been edited by WhenIfindthetime (edited March 12, 2001).]

Well, I just had to jump on the bandwagon here and post.<P>Ok, Student, we are going to agree on a few points here...<BR>I also feel that you should be divorced before pursuing another relationship, and probably because these relationships that started here before the divorce was final hit more home with me than usual, I am very sensitive to them. <BR>My X had an internet affair. They met on a board with similar interests. She was married, he was married, and after about a 6 months of "friendly" chatting, they started calling each other. I was still obvivious to this, one time I did see him IM with her, but he told her I was there and she said hi to me. I had NO idea that he would ever cheat on me, and I was not the jelaous type, so I took it for what I percieved it was, just friendly chat, like many of us do here. <BR>But, somewhere along the way, it changed. They became each others best friends and their spouses and their "unhappy" marriages became topics of discussion. They met, the attraction was mutual. Then, the husband and wife found out. <BR>Both of us wanted to save our marriages, and speaking for me, I followed the Harley principles the best I could. But they continued, just got better at hiding it. <BR>My point is....<P>A. Get out of your marriage if you are THAT attractd to another person before getting involved. It is just too much pain (and we know that pain) for the other spouse. <P>B. Soul search yourself completely.....and take the time to really look at yourself and ask can I save my marriage. <P>C. If you do the above, and find that special person here, then take it slow.........then appy the principles here to the max!!<P>D. Be ready for hurt again. Jumping into a relationship too soon can be another kind of pain. <P>E. Having said all of that, I am an optimist. I believe many here want love and another relatiuonship in their life. And, while it should not be the thing that makes you happy, it can amply your life and make it better if it is a good and loving relationship. Just be ready to put the time and effort that we all know now a marrriage takes. <P>Ok, off my soapbox!!!<P>------------------<BR>Susan

@@ <BR> <p>[This message has been edited by TMD (edited March 12, 2001).]

TMD,<P>I think you need to relax a little and you should quit judging people for what they expect out of this site. This place is many things to many people and I would be willing to bet that the majority of the MB family is not using this place as a “meat market.” <P>I don’t want to step on your toes or tell you what to think, but I highly disagree with you that this place is not “real.” Granted, this is an Internet based, open forum and we are all just a bunch of letters and words to one another, but the feelings, experiences and sentiments expressed within this forum are absolutely <B>REAL</B>. I don’t know about you, but I am a real person and my posts have all been real. And as far as I know, those persons who have responded to me over the past 8 months are real as well. <P>Personally speaking, I did not come to this site expecting to find another love interest, or even to make any friends. Let’s face it, if I was really looking for a “meat market” forum, going to one called, Marriage Builder’s would be the last place I would look. My sole intention of coming to this site was to help me work through my feelings and emotions while suffering through my divorce. As a result of sharing my experience’s and reading of other’s, I have made it through my divorce without going completely insane, and maybe, just maybe, some of what I shared during this ordeal may have helped someone else along the way. For that, I am grateful as he** for this forum.<P>I am also very fortunate to have met some very loving, wonderful people on this forum who I am now proud to call my friends. Some of these people I have actually met while traveling, others I have talked to on the phone or through on-line chats, a few I keep in contact with through email and even some I have never spoken with outside of this forum. Although the method may not seem conventional to you, this is a real place. I think it is very sad that you don’t see it as such.<P>You have the right to feel anyway you wish. We all do. However, I really don’t think you should sit there in judgement of anyone from this site or any other site for that matter, simply because those around you don’t see things the same as you. I also think it’s a travesty that you are going to take it upon yourself to direct an acquaintance of yours away from this site and to another, just because you "don’t get it.”<P>All I can say is that I’m glad the person who referred me to this site allowed me to make my own decision as to whether I wanted to be a part of this little family or not. <BR>

Well spoken, Jayhawk. I am unsure how this thread got so off-track. I am afraid that anyone else with something to add or share to the original idea, will shy away.<P>Personally I celebrate the friendships and "more" that have been brought about from a place of such dire circumstances. I would have to agree with you that coming to a place called MB would be the very last forum anyone might go looking for a "piece of meat". I have never seen such effort, commitment and love of spouse, as I have witnessed here, a hundred times.<P>No one comes here looking to be judged. We are all here for advice, guidance, wisdom of experience and comfort. It is a shame that some people in their suffering want only to condemn the paths of others. <P>Persons of peace, have stopped looking for someone to blame and have learned to let go of paralyzing pride. That is when the healing begins. <P>

TMD--<P>I'm going to jump in here too. I think that there are assumptions being made based on a few isolated cases. If you met the love of your life in a grocery store or a church, would you make the assumption that it was a meatmarket? Of course not. I understand your point about exploiting vulnerabilitiess, and since no one is perfect, I assume that there may be a predatory wolf hiding somewhere here in sheep's clothing. But that is real life, and despite what you think, this is real life too. <P>When I did a search for divorce support on the internet and found this site, I was intrigued by the principles and articles. Then I learned for the first time ever what a discussion board was. I never even knew they existed! I have found some of the most supportive people here that I could ever ask for. I often told myself that this was not real life either. That this was cyber land and it had its own set of rules. However, all my perceptions about internet friendships have been shattered. I have met some amazing people that I would not trade for the world. Look for the good here, and do not judge others. If you do that, you will find some amazing things.<P><p>[This message has been edited by gsd (edited March 12, 2001).]

You all accuse me of judging but all you have done is judge me w/o knowing squat about me and what my situation is. I am entitled to my opinion just as much as you are all. I can see however there is no room for independent thinking here.<P>I mostly read and post when I do on the Emotional Needs forum which is a very different place than here I see. I find it very informative and there is none of the "political correctness" that exists here. There are probably those who agree w/me but fear being ostrasized if they express a different view.<P>The person I was going to recommed this site marriage is ending after 40 years due to her H affair. I took some time to read some of the posts here and they are mostly about dating/custody issues which don't apply in this situation. So I don't see there much here for someone in her position. <P>

TMD,<P>I'm not judging you. You're right, I don't know squat about you or your situation.<P>Perhaps where your friend needs to post is the Just found Out forum.<P>You must realise, that we are some way down the track from where your friend is. We have all been where your friend is at, and for me personally, it was the MOST painful thing I have ever experienced. But for me, that time was almost 2 years ago. I wanted my marriage to work, I begged him to try and make it work. He chose not to. So what choice did I have, but to move on with my life. For my sake and the sake of my two beautiful girls.<P>Please remember that. <P>We are all some way down the track from your friend. But with what we have been through, there is a wealth of wisdom and understanding here.<P>This thread is one of many. This is a fairly lighthearted thread, between people who know each other fairly well, and have infidelity in common. We are all people who tried to make our marriages work, but for whatever reason, they didn't.<P>Don't turn your friend away from this board because YOU read one thread that you may not agree with. That's not fair to your friend, or doing her any favours.<P>Remember, we have all been here for a long time. We know each other quite well, and yes, we laugh and joke and tease. As friends do.<P>Please, keep it in perspective. And think about the forum that may suit your friend best. If she has just found out, she is some way off the divorce or being divorced time yet.<P>Just my 0.02c worth.<P>Jo

TMD,<P>I think there are several of us here who wouldn't keep quiet because of fear of being ostracized. I agree that the atmosphere on this particular board is not nearly as pro-marriage as I would like to see. And I agree that the issues for someone who has been married for 2, 3, or 4 decades are quite different from those of many of the people here. Unfortunately, in some ways I have the worst of both worlds - I spent a quarter of a century with my H, but I also have young children visitation issues. <P>I have said before that I wish there were a board specifically for people who were divorced against their will and for who have not somehow decided it was for the best.

The only thing I have to say is, “<B>GEEZ!</B> while rubbing my forehead profusely.<P>Everyone here should know what I think about this subject.<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A><p>[This message has been edited by Chris (CA123) (edited March 13, 2001).]