<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheStudent:<BR><B>You aren't making any huge leap of faith. So what? You found some chick on the internet for $15 who is willing to play footsie while you get your junk together. BIG DEAL. If you are so brave, why don't you get married. And this time, do it without a pre-nup. Now THAT is what I'd consider courageous (and virtuous).</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, that's where I'm headed, no question about it. <P>And last time, the pre-nup was neither my idea nor XW's. We were resistant to it, and even considered eloping to avoid it. However, that would have caused XFIL untold grief as he would have had to scramble to protect what was "his" and not XW's (despite the fact it was in her name). Or he could have just punitively left us with tax liability and lacking the cash to cover it. Either way, it would have been a bad scene.<P>XFIL had (for weasely tax and liability reasons) put about a half dozen big apartment complexes and a mini-storage into a partnership where XW was nominally one of the limited (read: powerless) partners, and XFIL (or one of his companies) was the general (read: in charge) partner. These kids never saw a dime directly from them, except a check from XFIL every year to cover their tax liability when they got K-1s for the "phantom" income that was really kept by XFIL. I shudder to think whether the siblings could be deemed to really have been "gifting" those profits back to XFIL, and thus liable for gift tax ... and having signed joint returns with XW all those years, <I>I</I> sure couldn't use <I>innocent spouse</I> status as a defense because I understood it better than any of them (I can't remember whether one spouse is on the hook for another spouse's gift tax--I'd have to look at the code & regs). But I digress.<P>At this stage of the game, neither GF nor I have accumulated enough of anything to really worry about doing a pre-nup. There are no sponging X's or kids from prior marriages. There frankly isn't much reason for one. <p>[This message has been edited by Sisyphus (edited March 29, 2001).]

Sisyphus,<P>That XFIL does sound pretty scary. I guess you know this time that you are not just marrying the person...you are marrying their family as well.<P>My XFIL's favorite saying was "acquire wealth, then virtue". So, maybe it shouldn't be too much of a surprise that his son pretty much followed along.<P>Ok. Carry on....<P>Besides, if *I* dated, I wouldn't have time to:<BR>a) win that Nobel Prize I've had my eye on<BR>b) teach my border collie how to play frisbee<BR>c) teach my aussie/lab how to "shake" with either paw and "dance" like one of those russian circus bears<BR>d) work out so I can keep my Demi Moore bod<P>and last but not least...<P>e) come here and debate with you!

TS, <P>Sorry about the "pity" comment (just picture me delivering that line as Ian Holm's [censored]-covered severed robot head in <I>Alien</I>--and remember what happened to him for saying that!). I don't think you're pitiable, although sometimes I do wonder a bit whether the your romantic muscles haven't atrophied in that cast you've been keeping them in. <P>

Sis -<P>I think I get it now, and to be honest, am a bit jealous (as are a number of us here if we really look deep). You seem to have found someone with whom you can both heal and grow with. Lucky you! And all for $15? Talk about your cheap date. <P>As for where it's heading with your GF, congrats? Maybe, hopefully you are not jumping into something too soon, but in reading your posts, you seem to have learned alot and are less likely to make the same mistakes as before. Probably different ones, but at least you have the *tools* to deal with it. <P>Maybe you'll invite us all to the ceremony? <P>NB-<BR>I'm still new here, I think you hit it, Sis is the King of the Drama! At least the weaving of tales to draw us all in! <P>Sis - ever think of changing careers?<P><BR>Galetea<P><P>------------------<BR>The only way out is to go through<BR>- Robert Frost

<B> ALL HAIL THE KING OF DRAMA </B><P>{deep curtsy}<P>Hey Sis,<P>Whatever floats your boat, man. I'd say, like Student and Galetea said, you got quite the bargain for $15...<P>It (and I) am finished! <P><BR>

So I'll say it again, this udate.com thing is a <I>bloodhound</I> for finding compatible people in your general vicinity. Remember that troublesome Brazilian? Well, she came to me courtesy of AOL's personals...

Sis - <P>It just occurred to me that you should be getting a kickback from that site! <P>Good luck to you Sis, this has been most enlightening and enjoyable. <P>Let us know when you "pop" the question!<P><BR>Until then -<BR>Best to you!<P>Galatea<BR><P>------------------<BR>The only way out is to go through<BR>- Robert Frost

Sis,<P>"...do wonder a bit whether the your romantic muscles haven't atrophied in that cast you've been keeping them in."<P>Oh, and what, pray tell, are the romantic muscles you are referring to? <P>If you are talking about some other skill...well, as I've discussed in previous debates, communication skills can be practiced with anyone as long as you aren't a hermit. It takes NO skill to be romantically involved. It takes GREAT skill to be a loving, committed person, which are the only qualifications I consider necessary to maintain a relationship of ANY kind.<P>I find I'm alot more "loving" outside of your standard romantic relationship. Ya gotta ask yourself, why are so many people who are considered spiritual also celibate? Do you think they don't have those "feelings" for the opposite sex occasionally? Maybe some don't, who knows. I know that those "feelings" are not what I live for. Plus, by tying myself to one person in a romantic way, for moral reasons and also just plain lack of energy/time, I would exclude myself from interacting at a deeper level with other people...especially men. <P>Before my divorce, I did like the idea of spending my whole life with one person. Now I understand that that "ideal" is mostly a myth, and highly unlikely in our culture. If I'm going to be forced to change associations/alliances many times in my life, I'd rather do it with a minimum of health risks and other hassles. <BR>

Latest development: XW's Attorney asked me to change '99 1040 so the refund would all go to her. For reasons that would take to long to explain, it's fair and I did it ... except that her routing number and account number were all run together. So I parsed them and let XW's attorney know that they needed a double-check to make sure the break was inserted in the right place. Yesterday I get a fax saying it was wrong ... they had inserted an extra digit early in the sequence ... so both numbers were wrong! I sent 'em the fix. I can't do any better than what they send me.

Continuing to execute actions that XW wants me to take, I removed her from having signature authority over my corporate bank account. I also got a new registration and tag for her car that is now officially mine. The damn state charged me $187 to do this ... including an extra $100 because I was registering a car without having another registration I was giving up! For just a moment, I thought I should have kept the other car that both our names were on! Oh well, let <I>her</I> pay $650/mo. on the obsidian albatross until the end of time...

Sis!<P>Sounds like you are getting through all the remaining threads of your long defunct marriage. Question is, how do you feel about this being wrapped up and over with, finally?<P>Your continued posting on here signals to me that there may be a few emotional ties yet to unravel with the XW in your mind.<P>Galatea<P>------------------<BR>The only way out is to go through<BR>- Robert Frost

Well, I feel pleased to be connecting with some fundamental reservoirs of decency that prevent further hostility and avoidance. Her (XW's) decency and my decency. It's been tough for me to do. And on one occasion, it was hard to discern what *would be* decent to do. I wish she would have helped me find a more perfect solution. <P>Of course there is always going to be regret for what might have been. And my view of her family and its effects on her life grows increasingly jaundiced. I can't "blame" them, they are imperfect human beings dealing with demons of their own, and they have been largely successful by the standards that many people apply. They just happened to have made my XW a little tightly wound. <P>I can let her go. I must let her go. Would it have been "love" to hold on to her, knowing all the while that she was increasingly unhappy? And for whatever reason, being unable (or, admittedly unwilling) to do what she saw as necessary to make her happy (assuming that stuff even would have made her happy). The fact was, she seemed to have conflicting urges, and since I couldn't make <I>both</I> operant for her, I was to blame for the road not taken ... of course, I would have been to blame had we gone in the other direction. And I would have been to blame if she'd found herself wishboned by an attempt to take both directions. The only thing that would have come close to solving her dilemma would have been for me to make an inordinate amount of money. And that itself would have brought its own problems. The details are pointless now. <P>I was somewhat skilled at spin, and dancing, but unskilled at getting to the root issues, and unskilled at managing my own reactions to trouble, my own depression and paralysis. <P>Would I want another chance? No. The only pull in that direction would be the sense that I married for life, not for this to have happened. And perhaps the sense that I have tainted XW's relationship with the Catholic Church in that she is now a woman who divorced her husband. I offered to help with an annullment, but that offer was met by silence, and the diocese didn't give me much hope for pursuing one as a non-Catholic. I have to stop letting it be important to me, as it seems unimportant to her. <P>It was <I>my</I> choice to move on; and though it was both too soon and born of pain, not readiness; it seems to be working out undeservedly well. My gut tells me that when Monty Hall opens the door revealing the Coupe de Ville, you don't ask "<I>Aww, can I go back to the <B>goat</B>?</I>"

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus:<BR><B><P><BR>I can let her go. I must let her go. Would it have been "love" to hold on to her, knowing all the while that she was increasingly unhappy? I was somewhat skilled at spin, and dancing, but unskilled at getting to the root issues, and unskilled at managing my own reactions to trouble, my own depression and paralysis. <P>Would I want another chance? No. The only pull in that direction would be the sense that I married for life, not for this to have happened. <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, it sounds like you've been incredibly introspective to this point. If I may be so bold, have you heard of the book <I>Emotional Intelligence</I>? It may help you in your future relationships in terms of "managing reactions" in stressful situations. I found it immensely useful coupled with Harley's LB work.<P>Hang in there...<BR><P>------------------<BR>We cannot do everything at once... but we can do something at once

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sisyphus:<BR><B><BR>Of course there is always going to be regret for what might have been. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>I can say this too!<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I can let her go. I must let her go.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>Egad! I can say this TOO!! Of course, I'd have to substitute "her" with "him"... <P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Would I want another chance? No. The only pull in that direction would be the sense that I married for life, not for this to have happened. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>Married for life... sigh ... yes, this is what I believed too...<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>It was <I>my</I> choice to move on; and though it was both too soon and born of pain, not readiness; it seems to be working out undeservedly well.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>{blush} Yes... this is my truth too... and as sad as it truly is... I feel utterly blessed, as well...<P><B> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> My gut tells me that when Monty Hall opens the door revealing the Coupe de Ville, you don't ask "<I>Aww, can I go back to the goat</B>?</I>"<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You crack me up!! <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck<P><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited April 05, 2001).]

Sisyphus,<P>I can't believe this thread is still going!<P>Back in the beginning stages of my discovery, I moved on too quick too. Just as you mentioned, maybe it was too soon. I didn't do so good at my first try, but I wish you the best with yours. Just because you did move on faster than some, doesn't mean it can't work, but I do think there is a lot of extra work, emotional baggage and last details of splitting everything up.<P>I'm trying again. Its been 7 months, and only one issue so far, which we have worked thru. I think thats a pretty good start. <P>This is a learning experience for us all, even if some of it is bad timing. Good luck,<BR>Dana<BR>