Well, yesterday I posted questioning his intent. Was he confused because I "let go" and was reconsidering? Many wonderful ideas were given, thank you all. This is why I at least come, for the introspect shared here has come to most of us the hard way.<P>When he came home yesterday I asked him based on what he told me last night what he now wants from me. (in a very soft-spoken way..Not what the H**** do ya want ? )<P>I stated that I do have a couple of very different paths ahead of me. One is moving back home to Texas, moving on with my life. This cohabitation thing is for the monkey's.<BR>Another is not to go I mentioned. Either way I am going to apply myself 150% as I walk down those paths. Read: be the best mom I can be, and if possible the wife I never was.<P>I just need to know what you want, or want to reassess.<BR>That I dont really know what to do.<P>Since he blatently defended her to the children and told them he is leaving me, I have walled up a bit. To Just Learning, maybe I am becoming a tad indifferent again. I think it is my primary defense mechanism. But I have done it out of love. Dr. Dobsons "Love Must Be Tough" principles. And he knows this. I love him too much to stay for 2 years as a *partner* while he finishes school. I drew a line in the sand. I have not emotionally given up as he has to enable myself to be capaple of living with him on a friendship level.<P>So here I go again rambling. He said to me all he wants is a month w/o all the frustration he is feeling. All the talk about our plans (moving.) OK hon, I said. But I do not talk about my plans with you. They are not some scheme to hurt you. You are the one boasting of the position you can have at the hospital if you enlist. Yes you are right he replied.<P>I do not want to live in limbo for a month. Tell me want you hope to re-eval in that time. Nothing really, Dara, I just want some understanding and some peace. I truely believe he is wrestling with the guilt monster here. So did you then want to hold off on all plans as stated last night? I would gladly reconsider mine if I knew you wanted to take a shot at our marraige. He said no, that is not fair to me to live in limbo for a month.<P>I then told him (tough love theory) that I am tired of the mind games here. Are you trying to keep the upper hand?<BR>Last night you want to hold off on plans, take a month to think, to have peace and to forget that he wants a divorce.<BR>Yet you come home talking about this position at the hospital. (I leave, he needs to work instead of going to school he says. Re-enlisting is due to me leaving.)<BR>So well then so much for the smokescreen! Nothing settled. No wilingness to reevaluate us.<P>I really through all this think that he is having a very difficult time with me saying OK! You dont want me, well I need to build a life for me and the kids. My home is in San Antone. His, too, but he loves WA state.<BR>I have seen the regret in his eyes when I tell him I need self respect and self worth. cant have it here as a *partner*. He has even expressed that he wants that too, this is why he is leaving. How he realizes how much he is leaving behind, and he hates himself for it. This is why I need to leave. Regret and affection one day followed with cruelty and indifference for a week thereafter. <P><BR>Ok, well guys thank you all so very much for caring and listening to my rambling. I dont understand this mess at all. Like yesterday I get my hopes up to be shot right down. This is why I posted yesterday. I am weary. I wanted a fresh perspective on this because I am beginning to realize that everytime I get my hopes up only to be quickly dashed my heart haredns to him just that little bit. I dont want false hope!!! Love ya guys!<P>God Bless,<BR>Dara

Any one here?

2 things to say. <P>1.)Stay on your course of action. I sense a turn over/around coming. He kn ows what he wants. I agree he sounds like he is fighting the monster. <P>2.) If it doesn't turn over. I vote Dallas. <P>You are in my prayers.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by AgoodManInTexas:<BR><B>2 things to say. <P>1.)Stay on your course of action. I sense a turn over/around coming. He kn ows what he wants. I agree he sounds like he is fighting the monster. <P>2.) If it doesn't turn over. I vote Dallas. <P>You are in my prayers. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>Thank you. I sense this *funk* engulfing me. Since I decided to leave I felt this wonderful sense of relief. No longer at his mercy, but oh! self respect and an I can do it attitude. <P>I posted yesterday for fear of "reading too much into this" and regressing. Later in the evening he began to once again speak of his plans to enlist and I reacted with anger.<BR>Said I am tired the games. Keep it to himself. I dont want to block any attempts that he may make. Yet, I dont want any hypocrisy either! Just make up your mind to at TRY, or quit teasing me like this.<P>This morning I feel consumed once again. What I need to do is pray. I should know better than this, that his decision alone will not overcome this. God's works will. I almost feel guilty for looking for answers from him and this board.<P>UUGGHH!! Will this EVER end????<P>

LAIG,<P>I have the feeling you are pushing him too hard. I think he needs the month of peace. And I think you can give it to him without compromising your position or your future.<P>Let me try this one for you. You have admitted that you weren't much of a W for 12 years. From what you have said about his comments, he hasn't felt peace or security in his home since you two married. <P>Reflecting on your first post here, it seems that he has been in constant turmoil, either away from the family, trying to win back your love,or get any love at all. He also helped put you through nursing school ( I know that wasn't easy on the family for anyone.)<P>It seems to me your H is just plain tired. He doesn't have it in him to fight with you any longer, he doesn't have it in him to try and win your love anymore. He just wants to be where someone just loves him, because he is there.<P>Now if I am even close to right, go back and read your post here. Do you see more stress? Do you see him having to make more life altering decisions, as he apparently has had to do with you in the past? Do I stay and work it out or not? Does she love me or not? He has been through this several times already.<P>You are being calm, but once again he must chose to drastically alter his life or lose you. He has found a bit of comfort (OW) and he must give it up or lose you. He has been there before. In your discussion, it falls back on him to chose and sacrifice. You won't sacrifice or live in an uncomfortable situation, without commitment, but his had to do this.<P>LAIG, do you see what I am saying? I may be completely wrong, but all the man wants is a woman that loves him and a wife. He hasn't had that for virtually all of his adult life. He wants peace, and you are forcing choices and turmoil.<P>I am not saying your position is wrong. I am saying your position is bring more of the same, from his perspective. So let me ask you a question? Can you remember a month of your marriage, where there were no worries and you and H were just happy, just floating along? You married him to get away from your Mother, he has been your meal ticket for most of the marriage with regard to emotional and financial support. <P>I suspect he feels that is all you really think of him now.<P>So LAIG, I would suggest you take him up on the month of peace. Further, I would suggest you try and make both of your lives some fun. He just may see that it is possible that you could be fun to be with, no pressure, just relaxed fun. So far you have not offered him anything but more pressure and more decisions that will hurt him. (He thinks staying will hurt him because you will hurt him again and he thinks you leaving will hurt him. Some choice.)<P>So think about this. Can you offer him "peace"? Are you willing to offer him "peace"? Are you willing to take a risk for him? Are you willing to take a risk for your children, because as it stands now they will lose their father.<P>I don't know that you can recover 12 years of not being a W in a few months. But I do suspect that there is no hope, if he just sees more of the same.<P>I hope this helps.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<P>PS: Give what I have said, can you see why he wants to divorce you?? It seems to me he doesn't hate you at all, but he needs to start the relationship over: Learn to date and have fun with you without the pressure and in "peace". I suspect there is a love there, but he is too tired to drag it out right now.

You know, I'm really starting to think that doing a Controlled Separation a la <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0809225131/o/qid=985207526/sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/002-9618493-4324828" TARGET=_blank>Should I Stay or Go</A> might be very effective for your marriage...<BR>

Just Learning,<P>Your introspect is once again brutally honest and quite intuitive. Thank you. I need it.<P>In reply to this month of "peace", I suppose I am once again being too aggressive and wanting yes or no answers.<BR>You are right, I am continuing to convey crisis and turmoil.<P>He is careful as to not mislead me, as yesterday he chose not to. He does care, and has even told me that yes he loves me very much. Honestly it was only after I told him that this is too much, I need to leave, that he felt the room to express himself. My shortcoming is that I see things as black or white, no gray matter here (pun intended.)<P>As weary as I feel, I can only imagine how hard this is for him. JL you are right about him being too tired to fight, too cautious to try. He has told me before that he would be a fool to trust me again. The other night he also said that he wants to forgive. All along he just goes along, stuffing and stuffing, and not reacting to his pain about my infidelity. I think this is why he even "permitted " it. Too much pain to even acknowledge, let it go and it may go away. He said it has come to haunt him. He wants to deal with this issue, and to forgive.<P>I am at a point where I want peace too! No limbo, co-existing, etc. But nothing really changes for me to be open for a month regarding my plans. I can let it go for awhile, I only wish he could too.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GnomeDePlume:<BR><B>You know, I'm really starting to think that doing a Controlled Separation a la <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0809225131/o/qid=985207526/sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/002-9618493-4324828" TARGET=_blank>Should I Stay or Go</A> might be very effective for your marriage...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>i have thought this over too Gnome. It may very well give him the room to think about what he wants and needs. Problem is the little ones. Military life brought many moves. Now they have actually gone to the same school for 3 yrs in a row!!! they love this house. He converted a tool shed into a cottage for them last year. Windows, sheetrock, carpet, handprints on the wall. <P>Its hard to take that away. However, contentment from me will enable them.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Learning as I go:<BR><B>i have thought this over too Gnome. It may very well give him the room to think about what he wants and needs. Problem is the little ones.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Have you read the book? You don't necessarily move out of the same house. The value of the "separation" is that it is <I>controlled</I>. You write up an agreement for how the "separation" is going to be conducted. The aim is to give both partners the space and security they need.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GnomeDePlume:<BR><B> Have you read the book? You don't necessarily move out of the same house. The value of the "separation" is that it is <I>controlled</I>. You write up an agreement for how the "separation" is going to be conducted. The aim is to give both partners the space and security they need.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No havent read it. Brought it up right after d day, a sep to give us room w/o decisions. No way he says. I'll look into the book, but honestly some sort of "contract" about how to behave and handle things, he would think I went head first into a bowl of Fruit Loops.<P>

Well, if I thought diving into a bowl of Fruit Loops would save my marriage, I wouldn't hesitate for a moment...<BR>

I arrived at MarriageBuilders 1-2/2 years after my divorce so I am not well versed in plans A & B.<P>This situation seems like a case for you to stop, take a lot of deep breaths, pray hard for the healing of the hearts of you and your husband, and then plan A as if your life depended on it. Be the wife he wants. <P>For more info on plan A, you'll have to read and get advice from someone else. But, if you've not been the dream wife for 12 years, it's going to take some time to convince him that you can be that.<P>We're talking about a month, not forever.<P>

Well, the topic of my post was FRUSTRATION. As it continues, I feel apathy setting in. All it took was one "glimmer of hope" from him to set back my confidence.<BR>Such strngth I cherished in deciding not to co-habitate as he wanted while he finished school.<P>To move on with my life. AUGH! I feel as if it is just a thin veneer (sp) of self confidence.<P>Where am I?

Dear LAIG,<P>You mentioned that when you initially made a decision to go on with your life, you felt a sense of relief. Do you know why? When you made a decision to stay where you are at, how did you feel? <P>The answers to both those questions are ones I had to deal with. Your H sounds like he is waffling. Is he? Does his answers change daily? Is there a direction he is heading but taking steps back and forth? <P>My H waffled and is still waffling. But his waffling is taking him towards a Divorce. Why? Because, if left up to him, he will continue to stay in his waffle mode (by his own admission). I can not stay in limbo land. I have given H his 2 1/2 months of trying to find himself. Now I need to go on. I need that relief. For myself, I did find that relief. H did say he cares for me but the draw of the OW (who he somewhat fears) is too strong and he feels he must be with her. <P>Based on those answers, my H has chosen by his actions that he is not with his family. As hard as that is for him, I can not leave an open door while he swings back and forth. His OW throws out the line, gives him slack so he comes back home then reels him into her web. I don't want to play that game. <P>If your H is more of a self assured man than that, then you may have a chance. Finding answers to the first 2 questions are important. <P>I know your frustration and feel your pain. Keep posting. Hope this helps.<BR>L.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Orchid:<BR><B>Dear LAIG,<P>You mentioned that when you initially made a decision to go on with your life, you felt a sense of relief. Do you know why? When you made a decision to stay where you are at, how did you feel? <P>The answers to both those questions are ones I had to deal with. Your H sounds like he is waffling. Is he? Does his answers change daily? Is there a direction he is heading but taking steps back and forth? <P>My H waffled and is still waffling. But his waffling is taking him towards a Divorce. Why? Because, if left up to him, he will continue to stay in his waffle mode (by his own admission). I can not stay in limbo land. I have given H his 2 1/2 months of trying to find himself. Now I need to go on. I need that relief. For myself, I did find that relief. H did say he cares for me but the draw of the OW (who he somewhat fears) is too strong and he feels he must be with her. <P>Based on those answers, my H has chosen by his actions that he is not with his family. As hard as that is for him, I can not leave an open door while he swings back and forth. His OW throws out the line, gives him slack so he comes back home then reels him into her web. I don't want to play that game. <P>If your H is more of a self assured man than that, then you may have a chance. Finding answers to the first 2 questions are important. <P>I know your frustration and feel your pain. Keep posting. Hope this helps.<BR>L.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Thanks for writing Orchid.<P>Yes, I do know why I felt a sense of relief in deciding to leave. The absoloute misery of living in limbo totally loving him and being repeatedly hurt and heartbroken. To have SOME sense of control of my life. Ok fine..you dont want me, well I am more than a person besides this groveling fool. That there is way much more to me than him. My life was not destroyed, only my marraige was.<P>Right after "d day" I was humbled and grateful to even have him around. walking around on eggshells in our home, because as soon as I showed emotion to him ( tears, sorrow, anger, etc) he quickly reminded me that he could make this very hard for me by walking out now. So I sucked it up and went on. That S***! He spent 2 yrs he says thinking about this and preparing for it. He then tells me after less than a day to cut out the crying, it will not change anything, just make him leave sooner. OH!! Thank you thank you for the understanding. You just completely destroyed this life I thought we had, and expect me to not grieve?<P>As you all see, I am becoming bitter. I dont want to either. I told him the other day that he has made me feel like a whore. Intimacy is practically the only source of comforting closeness that lingers. I hate my vulnerabilities. yet last night h took advantage of it again.. Even asked me after we started what this meant to me. I reversed the question.. He said it is just lust. I feel like I should have charged him.<BR>

Dear LAIG,<P>Similar feelings and events happened to me. H may not have planned for as long but he still was willing to have sex but not the love and commitment. Confusing? Especially since OW equates sex with the ultimate in love. <P>Anyway, I asked H if now he can 'make love' or simply put, have sex without being in love. He said yes. I said it made 'him' sound cheap. I on the other hand could not have one without the other. So while I did have initimancy with him after the D day, I was doing it out of my love for him. I was not cheap and told him so. However, if he was cheap in his eyes, then we would need to stop. I told him, I would find a way to continue to fill my love and needs.<P>This immediately brought up a slew of questions from H. Like: Does that mean you are looking for someone else? Do I already have someone else? How long before I need to find someone else? Oh, his worry went on. That was ok. He was thinking about my needs for a change. I did not give him all his answers. I simply said, my 'love and needs' have more meaning for me because I respect myself. I will work on caring for them since he has chosen not to. If he should choose to care for my love and needs as a husband should, then we can talk. Otherwise, hmmm...... I let him wonder about that. I did not even tell him it was none of his business because we are still married and it should be his business how I am feeling. I never took that responsibility away from him, he needed to feel it. <P>Now along with that came my need to cry, grieve and be in pain. That was my right. If he thinks he has the right to go out there and 'do as he pleases', then I have the right to react as I see fit. H tried to tell me not to cause him trouble by getting mad or making him face reality. I told him, he did not have that kind of controlling option on me. I can cry, grieve, think as I choose, say what I feel I need to say just like anyone else. He has the option to listen or not. However, if vital information is given and he chooses not to listen, then the consquences are his. In fact the consequences are his for all his actions, just like mine are for my actions. No special treatment for either one of us. <P>H did not like that but was not able to fight that kind of logic. Bottom line is that I kept my respect for my self and I liked myself ahead of H's needs. While I still teneded to his needs, it no longer came at my expense as it did in the beginning. <P>For me these things have changed my life. This viewpoint has allowed me to be available to help my H when I can but within the limits of not putting myself out on the limb and in jeaporady where I can not recover. H is not looking out for the interests of his family. I must look out for the interest of my family. I told H that since that is the current status, there may be times where we will be at odds and when that happens, it will not be a surprise to us, but he will know ahead of time, how I will act. (Sorry for the rambling sentence). <P>Respect yourself. Respect your family. If you can respect your H. Acknowledge your needs, your family's needs and even your H's. Plan according to your priority. H is no longer a main priority for me. That in itself has given me a sense of relief.<P>Where does that currently leave my H? He is feeling the stress of his choices. He said that I needed to know that he is under a great deal of stress. I said, "Yes, I know that but H's stress is volunatary (based on his choices), mine is involuntary (forced upon me)." H acknowledged that statement and did not make that an excuse anymore. <P>Score on for the BS!!! <P>The purpose of this post is to reduce some of the frustration and anxiety you are feeling. Hope some of it is helpful.<P>Please take care, as the Clariol commercial says: 'Because you are worth it.'<P>L. <P>