I wasn't sure whether to use the sad or the mad smilie because I am both.<P>Last night as I was just on my way to my basketball game and was telling the kids I was leaving and when to go to bed, etc. My d said she wanted me to take her to her mothers. <P>I said no since I was leaving plus I needed her to watch her brother while I was gone. I said she should have said something earlier as I had toleave for my game. She said she didn't know I played on Wed nites (I have only been playing for 3 months!). <P>She wanted mother to do hair for school today. I said I was sorry but I couldn't take her. She got made and said she hated me and then that set me off. I told her I do all kinds of things for her and she says that. SHe also said she was going to live with her mother.<P>She replied by saying I don't do anything for her and her mom does. I said fine let her do everything then. I told her I was done taking her to school and running her around.<P>I then left. She was asleep when I got back.<P>So this morning she gets up and gets ready for school. Right before 7, the phone rings and its a friend of hers. She wanst a ride to school and d asks if we can take her. So I told her to ask her mother since she does everything. D said she is probably sleeping, and I again reiterated she was the one that said her mother does everything for her so she better ask her.<P>D told friend she couldn't take her because she had the ride the bus. She got lunch money from me and left.<P>It looks like I raised a spoiled brat. I know alot of this is teenager stuff but that doesn't make it any easier. I feel like things are starting to unravel. I seem to have lost control of my home and myself.<P>I guess a long sit down and talk with d is needed. Maybe once the day is through, I will feel better and can sit down and talk rationally about things with her.

Bob,<P>Let me first say that my oldest is only 10, so you're getting the old "this is how ***I*** would handle it" speech from someone with no experience... <P>You're reacting. You're letting the kids push your buttons. If your daughter didn't know that you were going out, perhaps the two of you should sit down and work out a schedule of events (or put a calendar on the refrigerator). When your daughter said that she hated you, you shouldn't respond with the "I do all sorts of things..." guilt trip. If she threatens to live with your XW, then let her know that while you love having her living with you, that if she's serious, you'll sit down with her and mom and discuss it.<P>If you could have given her a ride today, you should have. If you couldn't, then tell her that. But you should have never brought the "call your mother---she's the one who does everything for you" line into it. That's a response that I'd expect from a snotty teenager---not you.<P>I think it gets better, in about 10 years...

RWD,<P>I am one of those parents that tends to react instead of dealing with things.<P>I recently took a parenting class that deals with issues like these. I don't remember to do them but their are like on every subject some very good bks that help you to think instead of reacting or basically they give you better words to use. HOW TO TALK SO YOUR KID WILL LISTEN & one that I am reading now POSTIVE DISCIPLINE FOR TEENAGERS both of these give you some tools to use.<P>Good luck my teenage son is driving me crazy. I have said some of the same things to him that you did to your daughter. Tell her how you feel.

Bob:<P>I have to agree with k. <P>Having my kids in therapy right now, I have learned that no matter how hard it is to hear things from our kids that hurt us, we need to remain patient and understanding and talk to them about the issue and how it makes us feel. <P>You do need to sit down with your daughter later. I know how much it hurts to hear those words from your child. My 3 yr old is saying she hates her dad, hates me, etc. It is natural for her age to have very strong reactions to the divorce. I know that she doesn't really hate me and I'm sure your daughter doesn't hate you either. We all get so mad sometimes, that we say things we don't really mean. I think you need to put your emotions aside and just sit down and tell your daughter that you understand how hard this is for her but that it does hurt your feelings when she says that she hates you. Try to get her to open up with how she is really feeling and what she needs right now. She may need to talk to an outside party about her feelings. Try to talk to her about why she is so mad right now and see if you can work this out. You need to be the parent right now. Try not to react to her feelings. Try to see what is truly going on and talk her mother if you feel that maybe it is time to rearrange schedules, etc. so it will work out better for everyone.<P>I know you are taking on the brunt of the responsibility with your children.. That has got to take its toll on you and when your daughter says hurtful things it is hard not to react. But, you need to keep your emotions in check around your children and talk to other adults or your therapist about how that makes you feel and how you should interact with the children.<P>I just read a good book from the kid's perspective on divorce. I cant' remember the exact name. I will post the title later.<P>Hang in there Bob. This is a tough road we are on. We just need to do the best we can, day by day.<P>Jen<P>

i just had to reply to you because i know exactly what your feeling. i have 2 teenage boys and my oldest was 15 going on 16 during my separation and divorce. boy did he know what buttons to push! i did everything for him and then some but when it wasn't something he liked he'd threaten to go live with dad. he'd say hurtful things to me, like "i hate you". after a day (mostly a few hours) he'd come and tell me how sorry he was and he didn't mean it. Of course the hurt was done by then, i sat down and had a talk with him. i told him how much this hurt me and how spoiled he was and that i knew that was my fault but i wasn't going to continue accepting that kind of treatment any longer, after all i did everything for them and hardly nothing for me. he cried and said he understood and all went well for a while. then one day he did it again, this time i told him i was sorry he felt that way and i wanted him with me more than anything in the world but if he really wanted to go with dad i'd help him pack......and i did. by the time we were finished packing he came crying to me saying how sorry he was and he didn't really want to go. he said he just hated the way things were, mom and dad apart, and he wanted things back to the way they were. i didn't realize how much our divorce was hurting him because he was older and really didn't talk much about it. i told him both his dad and I loved him and would always be there for him. he seemed to do better after that. he is now fine. hang in there, it will get better.

Hi everyone,<P>K, you must have been listeniing in on my conversation with my minister friend. He told me I was wrong too! How about best 10 out of 19!!!!<P>Sing, I have a couple I need to read, fast!<P>Jen, You are right I do feel like I am doing everything but I have to realize it is my responsibility. I am planning to sit her down tonite and have a talk.<P>Confusedspouse,<BR>Thanks, I do not think I am ready to to let her go live with mom yet, but I know I will have to when she decides that.<P><BR>Hey, guess who just called and needs a ride home from school!!! Gotta run! Thanks!!!!!<P>Bob

Well, I had a talk with my d on the way home. Somehow I am still the bad guy. Good thing I wasn't holding my breath waiting for an appology as it didn't come.<P>I did appologize to her and explained what I felt and why.<P>Her main point seems to be that I don't take her to her mothers for visitation time, x always picks up.<P>I tried to explain that x has responsibilities too and that since it is her visitation, then she is reponsible for picking her up. D feels I have refused to take her over there. The only time I remember not wanting to take her is when d doesn't go when x comes to pick her up and then x refuses to come back to pick her up.<P>I guess there is some bull headedness on my part, I feel that since it is x's time then she is to do the running, not me. That seems logical to me. Why doesn't that to anyone else in my family or now out of it??????<P>I guess I feel like a slave to my kids and sometimes I fight it.

Bob,<P>Maybe not all that wrong, just needed to make a little course correction. Sure daughters drive us nuts, that is their job. The point is, they are going to make mistakes, and our job is to lead them to a better way, not to respond in kind. But then it sounds like you just got a handle on the idea anyway. Keep being the Dad! Let no one ever forget that where the kids are concerned they are your kids, and You Are The Man! You'll be just fine!<P>Bumper

Bob,<P>Does your x pick up the kids and drop them off? If so, maybe you could compromise and either always drop the kids off (or pick them up), or alternate. It seems fairest to split the difference: although you're a custodial parent and have to deal with the daily crap, the good news is that you're a custodial parent and you have the benefit of having the kids around most of the time.<P>Be generous. You can't get burned by listening to your kids and trying to accomodate reasonable requests.<P>

K,<BR>X almost always picks up and drops off. I never thought it was a problem. I did have another conversation with d and explained my position about "having" to take her/them over after x refused to come back. I don't know if it made an impression, but I feel better about explianing my side of things to her.<P>She did give me a kind of appolgy,"I said those things because I was mad!" I just have to learn not to react when my buttons get pushed. X only lives 2 mile away so it isn't that big of deal other than some resentment problems on my part. Thanks!

Hi Bob,<P>well I'm late as usual, but I'm glad things seem to be settling down.<P>My almost 6 yo told me one night she wanted to go live with her father. I told her that I didn't want that, that I would miss her so much because she means so much to me, but if she really wanted to, I would help her pack her things!!!<P>She said ok. (I nearly died!!)<P>Anyway, we started getting suitcases etc and then she said "could we do this in the morning mummy, I'm a bit tired and I want to go to sleep!!<P>Of course in the morning when asked if she still wanted to pack her things, she no, of course not......<P>Made me happy all day. Gads, she's only 6!!!!<P>I bought a book about divorce (the only one I've bought) and it is a real eye-opener. It's from the Oprah book club and it's called<P>The Unexpected Legacy of Divorce A 25 year Landmark Study<BR>written by<BR>Judith S Wallerstein<BR>Julia M Lewis<BR>Sandra Blakeslee<P><BR>It's a study that has followed the lives of some children whose parents divorced, right through to their adult lives. It's shocking, and has really opened my eyes to how this affects kids. Luckily, my kids have not had to deal with too much. There's been no abuse, we've managed to remain 'sort of' friendly, both sets of grandparents are still married and most family members are stable role models.<P>I hope this helps and that your days get better.<P>One thing I heard ages ago was this.<P>"When a child least deserves it,<BR>is when they most need it".<P>They were talking about a hug. <P><BR>Anyway, have to dash<BR>have a nice night<P>Jo<P><BR>

I get the same things from all THREE of my kids..<BR>They all get mad and say they "hate me" I just say..<BR>"I'm sorry you feel that way..but you are welcome<BR>to have those feelings, but just know that even though<BR>you "hate me" I still love you very much..and I always<BR>will..I may hate how you act sometimes, like when you say things that hurt me..but..even then I love you"<P>My son who is 6 has said he wants to go live his dad when<BR>he's mad at me..and I just say..okay..if that will make you<BR>happier then..we will discuss it with your father and see<BR>what he says..and I'll call his dad and discussed it with<BR>him..he always says "maybe if he can get a bigger apartment then he would see if he could come live there..but it would be awhile till he could get a bigger place..so just stay there for now" <P>But in reality..I know that his dad won't do that..because<BR>he's never been totally responsible for anyone else in his<BR>life..he's only had to think of himself..and what he wants..<BR>and someone else has always been there to do everything..<P>Just know that all kids do that..and say those things..<BR>my son did that one morning when I was getting ready for <BR>work..and I was feeling horrible about leaving him..and I started praying for wisdom..and I sat down w/ him and said.."I know this has to be really hard for you and it's<BR>got to hurt you inside..that mommy can't stay home with you today..since you were a baby mommy was always there..I didn't work and it was just you and me all day while your<BR>sisters were at school, and even last year when I was taking classes a few days a week, there were days when I didn't have to go to school and we could stay home together..and now that your in kindergarden and mommy works all the time<BR>we can't do that anymore, I know it hurts me that I am not<BR>here like I was..so if it hurts me..I know it must hurt you<BR>too..he just looked at me..and was like.."you hurt inside too?" I was like yes, I hurt a bunches inside my heart..not just that I can't be home with you..but that I can't be here<BR>when your sisters get home from school..I miss all three of<BR>you when I am work..but I look forward to coming home and<BR>knowing that I'll get to see you when I get there..and I look forward to that all day long..I said.."but you are lucky..you at least get to see your sister at school on the play ground and at lunch time I don't get to see any of you..he sat there for a minute and hugged me..and said..<BR>I love you mommy..I'll be okay at school today..I asked him<BR>if it helps knowing that I miss him just as much if not<BR>more than he misses me...He said..yeah..that helps alot..<BR>and his entire demeanor changed..and he ran to get ready for school..I haven't had a problem since..when I got home that night..I gave him a big hug and told him how much I missed him..and that I was so proud of him that he is growing to <BR>be a fine young man who won't always need his mommy there to take care of him..and that one day I'll miss him not needing me so much...he just smiled, hugged me..told me he loves me..and took off outside to play with his friends...<P>So try to think about how your daughter is hurting inside too..she misses her mother..maybe you can sit down with her<BR>and tell her "your sorry that she's hurting..and that you understand how much she must really having her mom around..<BR>because you miss having her around too" you don't have to blame her mom for leaving..but at least help her to understand that you all hurt inside..and that it's okay<BR>to hurt..but that she needs to learn a new way to express the hurt she feels..instead of lashing out at everyone else. <P>I don't know if you've said how old she is..but as a full time custodial parent..of a daughter there will come <BR>a time (if she hasn't already) that she will be starting her<BR>menstrual cycle..and you'll need to be there and go shopping for her for that..I know that my daughter started at the <BR>age of ten..and some start even earlier than that..and some<BR>later..but if mom isn't around when she starts..guess who<BR>gets to be the one to talk to her and help her understand not to be afraid and that she isn't bleeding to death..and that all girls go through this..then of course you'll get the raging hormones that go with that..and the mood swings..<BR>so learn how to communicate with her now..so that when you<BR>really need to be there for her..you can be..like for the first heart break..you'll need to be able to tell her what jerks guys can be..and how he wasn't good enough for her<BR>anyway..and that even if these boys don't like her it's okay..because she's still the most beautiful girl in the world to you..<P>If you haven't seen the movie "What a Woman Wants" I'd suggest you rent it..and watch it..and learn...lol

I love Judith Wallerstein. One of the first authors in a long time that debunks the myths--in a thoughtful way--that were spread around in the 70's-80's....how the kids "adjust" and all that. <P>I see sooo many children of divorced parents who seem to be just continuing that pattern. I know ALL of you don't want another generation going through what you've gone through.

Jo,& TS,<BR>I have Wallerstien & Blakeslee other book, "Second Chances, Men, Women and Children a Decade After the Divorce." I got it early in the divorce procedure and had problem reading it because they kept mentioning step parents.<P>From what I read, it looks like the divorce affects the kids more as adults than as kids causing them not to trust people and to keep looking for that perfect relationship or not being able to commit at all.<P>Thorned Rose,<BR>D is 13 and her mother did take care of that "item." I found out by doing the laundry. X or daughter didn't bother to tell me.

Bob,<BR>I know you are a great father. This too is hard. Running away from responsibilitiesas your X did, leaves you feeling used by all perhaps? I know it does me.<P>However, being the only responsible parent makes it harder.<BR>Your role is not to stop kids seeing their mom,providing it makes sense according to all other commitments. You are not there to facilitate this in addition to all the other things you do for your children....and there is no problem in letting the kids know what you will and will not do for them. It kinds of adds some structure to them and allows them to know what they can count on you for....i.e. everything but facilitating and enabling their irresponsibility concerning arrangements with X and the comings and goings from her home. I understand exactly where you are coming from and you do not have to always make nice for the kids as this is what they will then come to expect. This is where the conflicts arise when you do say no to them (or has in my case!) So set not only your limits , but also your expectations for their behaviour very clearly. They may not like this,but that is for their good in the long run IMHO.<P>PS My son threatened to go and live with his dad as he did not like a curfew, having to stay home on school nights,not being allowed to drink in my home, getting to school on time...etc.I told him that if he could not respect these rules then he wasfree to leave...and he did....his father took him in where there are no boundaries and son is whooping it up on the road to delinquincy (if not there already) and at this point I cannot do anything. I had spoken to his father and told him why son wanted to leavce and "uncle dad" stated that he was not scared of parenting his son....who he had seen briefly once a week for 2 years!<P>THis has been very good for d who knows the type of parenting I offer and what her dad offers,and is petrified of having to live in a home with no structure where all live with no care in the world for anyone else and all do their own thing.<P>PS. Evidently OW is getting a little upset at having s around!!!!!!!!Older 2 coming back to town...and will live there too...I will LOVE this, especially as one son told me that there is never food in their home!