I have posted numerous time in the General Question forum. My H is the WS and I the BS, but it seems so much more complicated than just that. D day was in October, 2000 and since then the gamut of emotions has been all over the board: <P>1. He just wanted out once I discovered and so did I<BR>2. After a few days, I keep trying to figure out what went wrong and was desparate to save our marriage, he still wanted out.<BR>3. I kept trying to point out where we both went wrong. He did not see the point.<BR>4. I began to hate him.<BR>5. He withdrew and did not believe it would be possible for me to trust him again and did not have the patience required to work on anything. He moved out (no OW in picture).<BR>6. I told him that moving out was the beginning of the end, he thought it was the only way to move forward.<BR>7. I hated him some more and then realized that I had to focus on keeping myself above water. I began to learn to live without him.<BR>8. He seemed confused, like he wanted to work on things, but didn't know how.<BR>9. I decided to forgive him so that I could move on.<BR>10. I decided to formalize our separation so that I had some direction. Timing stinks, because this is when he decided he wanted to try. I think I was too far gone.<BR>11. I began to get excited about dating and having my freedom and living my own life. I couldn't communicate this with him because I had not yet made a permanent decision as to whether this is really what I wanted.<P>That brings me to today. There have been many things lacking in our relationship for many years. From my point of view, I have been emotionally neglected. I have asked for the attention I need and not received it. Outside activities were always more appealing to him and I have felt like we have not had a relationship. I have been missing the feeling of actually being wanted, cared about, important at all to him. From his point of view, I am too judgemental about him and his activities. I am an adult child of alcoholic parents and this taints my way of interacting with the world. For example, he would like to hang out at a local bar on occassion and that makes me nervous as I don't trust his judgement or that I will be cared for on the other end of that.<P>Our relationship has always been rocky to say the least. Had I not become pregnant, we probably never would have married, and despite that, the first three years after the baby was born we completely blissful (this is making me cry). Then we had a major event that we never quite recovered from followed by a major depression that lasted 18 months on my part. During this time I was so withdrawn from the relationship I couldn't be physically intimate and of course, I could not explain my behavior...I was an empty shell. After the depression broke, there was a brief period of happiness and then I began another series of personal turmoil when my father began going in and out of rehab for alcoholism...I became overly sensitive to alcohol in my home/life and my H rebelled and seemed to drink even more. It was during this time that HE withdrew from the relationship and sought outside solace.<P><BR>Today he and I talked nicely for the first time in a long time. I finally told him that I had gotten excited about being free. I just think the damage might be too great to make a good relationship with us. I told him that my ideal scenario would be for us both to take our lessons and find a partner that knows how to better meet our needs and that we could live close to each other and be best family friends. We have two children.<P>I just think the damage done it too deep for us to trust each other and I have fallen out of love with him. However, he has been trying pretty hard lately. I just don't want either of us to put each other through any more painful years. I think we would be better friends than partners. <P><BR>My questions are this:<P>1. Am I a fool to be giving up?<BR>2. Am I out of my mind and this feeling of wanting to move on is just another stage?<BR>3. Is there EVER a time when it is just best to cut your loses and move forward and how do you know when that time is here?<BR>4. Does anyone have a situation like the one I described where the x-spouses are good friends and still share family time together with the kids and get together for holidays as extended family would?<P>I think I'm losing my mind. I am confused, depressed, and just want direction in my life. <P>Thank you for your time and your hearts.<P>-LL<p>[This message has been edited by LearningLife (edited March 25, 2001).]

Dear LL,<P>Thanks for showing me this post. I am not sure how I missed it. You are right. We are at the same crossroads. We have run the gamut in the same items, maybe just a slightly different order. <P>I am at the point where I have lost my love for my H and now want out of the marriage. In my case, I think it is more severe. If you get a chance and read the post in the General Questions II, I posted this morning about WS says he wants to be friends (I don't know how to do all that fancy stuff the others do).<P>Someone said yesterday that there are 4 stages. I cant remember then all but the last one is acceptance. There are a lot of emotion involved with the other 3 stages but acceptance is where plans can be made and life can go on. I want and need to be at that acceptance stage whatever, that may be. <P>While I want my marriage to work and may have some good things to say to help others, I must resign myself to the fact that it takes 2 to make a marriage work and if there is not a cooperation of both the H & W, then the union will not stay together. I personally can not hold my marriage together by myself regardlesss of how many concessions I make. <P>My questions for you are: <P>1. What are your current feelings for your H?<BR>2. What do you mean by Hate?<BR>3. What are your H's current feelings for you?<BR>4. What does he mean by 'want to try'?<BR>5. In view of the history, can there be trust again?<BR>6. If yes, what will that trust be built on?<BR>7. What are your children's thoughts on this? Have you<BR> every asked them?<P>My son is 6 years old. His observations have been an eye opener. His maturity at assessing our family, has exceeded that of my H's. His questions to his dad have hit hard and they should. While he does not know everything, his questions and thoughts have been right on target. He knows enough. <P>I personally have prayed for a calm heart and a clear mind. I believe, I have received it. I don't know if it is possible to be friends at this stage. My cousin told me last night that it takes many years for her to deal on friendly terms with her XH. And even then it is hard. <P>In my case, I do not see that as possible since H is such a difficult person to deal with when it comes to any family issues. H is jealous and does not want to see me happy. He says he does but when he does, he gets upset. <P>I don't know how much help I can be today. I am feeling a bit under the weather myself and in the depressed land. I have to keep up myself for my little one, who is just so precious to me. My friends and family have really hung in there but I am still lacking where only a husband can fulfill (not just in intimancy but in support and love). Knowing that I may need to give that portion up in my life, it part of what brings great pain. If that can be avoided in anyone's life, I would encourage that it be avoided. If not then the option to divorce is out there but in my case it will be taken relunctantly but out of necessity. <P>Take Care,<BR>L.<BR>

Dear Ll.<P>How I wish I were in your shoes in that your husband now wants to try. I am not sure how I would feel but now I would like that opportunity. Part of me is scared that if I truly "let go" and then he wants back, then what. This must be difficult for you. I pray for you to receive the wisdom that you need to make a decision. <P>We all know what it is like to be so badly hurt and to take that chance again is difficult to say the least. But life is Full of risks that we take every day and unfortunaltely we can't hide from Life. <P>What do you truly have to lose that you have not already lost by continuing to work on restoration. Life is hard. For everyone in different ways. Somehow we all think life is easy until we find we have fallen down. <P>I don't know what I am saying but don't make any decision in haste, anger or without the wisdom of God.<P>Keep us informed.<P>Hopelessmom

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LearningLife:<BR><B>I told him that my ideal scenario would be for us both to take our lessons and find a partner that knows how to better meet our needs and that we could live close to each other and be best family friends. We have two children.<P>I just think the damage done it too deep for us to trust each other and I have fallen out of love with him. However, he has been trying pretty hard lately. I just don't want either of us to put each other through any more painful years. I think we would be better friends than partners. <P>My questions are this:<P>1. Am I a fool to be giving up?<BR>2. Am I out of my mind and this feeling of wanting to move on is just another stage?<BR>3. Is there EVER a time when it is just best to cut your loses and move forward and how do you know when that time is here?<BR>4. Does anyone have a situation like the one I described where the x-spouses are good friends and still share family time together with the kids and get together for holidays as extended family would?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, I believe there <I>are</I> situations in which one is better off cutting one's losses and leaving a marriage behind. How do you know when? Diane Medved set out to write a book addressing that very question. She ended up writing <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0804106339/o/qid=985630466/sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/002-9618493-4324828" TARGET=_blank>The Case Against Divorce</A>. I strongly recommend that you take a look at it. <P>According to my psychotherapist, reconciliation is a more realistic hope than remaining good friends. Friendship is <I>very</I> tough unless the old hurts can be resolved, and if you can resolve the old hurts, then why not reconcile?<P>In fact, I believe it is important to deal with those old hurts no matter what you do. It may seem like it's easier to find a new partner and start fresh, and in the short term, I suspect that really <I>is</I> easier, at least if you've actually been able to learn something constructive from your "failed" marriage.<P>But statistics tell us that most people <I>don't</I> learn enough to keep the new relationship with the new partner from becoming troubled. And once a precedent has already been set for running when the going gets tough, guess what old feelings start coming to the fore? Hint: you mentioned a "feeling of wanting to move on".<P>There's a significant advantage to dealing with the old hurts <I>now</I>, with your husband. You already <I>know</I> each other, and with the help of a good counselor your shared history can be a gold mine of insights. But that path is probably the toughest, and you don't have any way of knowing whether the reward at the end is the richest.<P>But you can't know that regardless of what path you take.<P>In the end, I think you have to address the question of whether you are going to do what you believe to be right, whether you are going to do what you feel to be right, or whether you are just going to do whatever you <I>want</I> to do. If you're lucky, they'll all end up being the same thing. More often, dissonance will force you to <I>see</I> them as the same thing, with unpleasant consequences down the road when reality reimposes itself on your consciousness.<P>Making significant life decisions in a state of confusion and depression is dangerous.<P>With all of that said though, perhaps the most important question of all is: what's best for your kids?<BR>

What if you loved them so much you really didn't want to let go? <P>I have read so many different things from, love is not enough to keep a relationship together, to , as long as there is love there is hope.<P>Its probably different in each situation, but in most cases, unless there is extreme abuse, I think when kids are involved, its best to stay together. Divorce looks like the way to go when your still troubled with problems, but take a look at all the custody/visitation, seperation problems and other situations that kids deal with when their parents divorce.<P>One last thing, living your own life, has a different type of loneliness. Dating, is not fun, a lot of times, its a big pain in the rear. It feels weird at first when you haven't been with someone other than your spouse for so long. It feels good to get some positive attention from someone, but other than that, its hard work! Probably as much work as it would have been to save the marriage, if both people had been willing.<P>To answer your questions, you mentioned to find someone who can better meet your needs. Think long and hard about that, and also think, are THEY going to want to share this family time together? I don't know any man that wants to see his girlfriend be best family friends with her ex and spend holidays together either. <P>At some point, you either make a clean break and spend all those times seperate or if your "that happy" as friends,then why aren't you together?<P>I'm not trying to sound harsh, just want you to know that I don't necessarily get along with my ex, but I do get along with his family. They were recently at a bday party for my middle daughter, and my boyfriend of 7 months. He was NOT happy that it was such a family affair. I can't say I blame him, and honestly, it can't happen again. <P>Part of your post sounds like you want to move on, part sounds like you want to stay close with stbx, but then you refer to finding someone new. Those are 3 very different paths, that you really can only take on 1 at a time, either stay with the ex, seperate from the ex, and after a lot of healing, possibly find someone new, that doesn't mean any other man will meet your needs any better, but you can't have a mixture of the 3.<P>Also, just think if you met another man and were dating, but he said, oh I can't see you for xmas, I have to go meet my ex wife, our kids and my ex mother in law, we spend holidays together. <P>I hope you find the answers your searching for, and only you can make that choice, but if you can salvage the marriage at all, and try to start over, then I would say thats a good thing for the children.<P>Dana<BR>

Dear LL,<P>I've been through depression too. Mine lasted 2+ years, and it was awful. It had an awful impact on my marriage. It definitely was a factor in my H's affair years later.<P>Are you a member of Al-Anon? I would sincerely encourage you to start attending meetings if you haven't been already. <P>I don't know all the details of your situation, but I would have to ask: What do you have to lose by staying for 6 more months or a year? If you divorce now, you can't really take that back (well there's remarriage, but you know what I mean). Divorce is more or less final....staying on the other hand, is something you can choose one day at a time.<P>Alcholism changes everything. My advice, such as it is, would be to stay for now, start attending Al-Anon regularly, and see how you think in 6 months. You will be in a much better frame of mind to make a major decision that you sound like you are not ready to make yet anyway.<P>I belong to a great online group if you are interested in that also, at <A HREF="http://www.steps2recovery.org/" TARGET=_blank>http://www.steps2recovery.org/</A> <P>Face to face meetings are far superior in my own opinion though, I hope you go <P>((hugs)) BR