It's been fifteen months since my H dropped the "bomb" that hit ground zero (me and the kids). Felt "trapped" by me, the kids, his possessions. I openned the door and out he went.<P>Horribly mean behavior towards me and the kids ensued... For 10 months he denied the "affair" (just coworking good friends that had an antimaterialism bond)... and told me the kids would be fine.... that he could see them once a year and it would be enough, and that he had been "pretending" towards me and the kids for all these years and didn't feel that it was enough of a reason to either stay or try for the kids. Mind you, I still do not know the reasons he left... He can just say he's "changed"...and he has...cloths, food etc.<P>Wouldn't initiate a D...but kept telling me he wasn't coming back, kept the affair with the married coworker going....saving her from her "horrible fate" of being with her H I guess. <P>Anyway, finally had to fess up, coz she became pregnant.. told me his life was complicated, and he wasn't happy and he wanted to see the kids. I obliged and went back to plan A, giving him carte blanche. He warmed up to the kids and to me, then seemed to hit his comfort zone and began to place the kids on the bottom of the barrel of priorities.. and me back to being a nonperson who has no business wanting to know about his business.<P>I let him be...then the baby was born...and he and she began jamming it down his families throats. THey don't know what to say...but basically, they are his family and now that he begins saying "I feel bad", "I never meant for this to happen"....but still saying he's going to ??? with OW...work or marry no one knows but she is still very much the number 1 priority in his life, along with work.... (she's there) and his sports. <P>I let go, wish him the best, but begin to file for D...and begin to make plans to move closer to support for me. (I moved 3 times for his job changes...he was always unhappy with his partners...now OW is kind of his partner but really is his subordinate) I am also his second wife... I met him while he was D... I do not know if there was an affair, but he did the same thing to her...walked with nothing and said to me all the same things he said to OW..."She only cares about things and not me" "she isn't intimate with me" (which is a lie) but with me he said his first wife didn't want kids and family was important to him..<BR> <BR>To OW he said work was important and I didn't understand.<P>Anyway....I begin to move on...realizeing that it does make it inconvienent for him to see the kids if I move far away, but also realizing he has the monetary means to fly to see them....and to be a "father" in the way he wants to be one...which is "disney dad"..<P>I"ve accepted that all.... but want more for me and the kids. I have a better chance of starting over...meeting someone myself who will value me and the kids in a larger town...(we are in a very small family oriented community...we are an anomaly...and really a "disgrace" or at least he and OW are)<P>He's putting pressure on me with his family...says I won't talk to him... told me I kicked him out....told someone or many people I won't take him back...told the kids he doesn't want me to move because "HE" won't be able to see them every other weekend.<P>BUT...he has yet to be honest with them at all. I have dealt with all of their sadness....I've cried with them, slept with them, took them to counseling, prayed with them, and showed them that we can still have "bad things" happen to us and have faith that we can go on. I have NOT bad mouthed their father, but I have told them that this is about him...and not them. I told them they are responsible to him but not for him... <P>He is still not the "same" with them. When they come home from being with him I ask how the visit went and they say "I think we were good this time".<P>ANyway, I know sometimes the "right" thing is not always the popular thing to do. I have accepted that my kids will not be happy with me at first and that his family will suppport him.... and that's even OK. I feel at peace, and know my conscience is clear. I am able to help the kids deal with what is to come (even all that they don't know about...like the OW and baby), but I would like the opportunity to live my life also the way I want to. I know I will make visitation work. Yes, it will be inconvienent, but he put the kids in this position, I would like to think he would also try to make it work.<P>BUt no...he wants it all... and he wants me to clean everything up. Now he wants to talk to me about the kids...including with mediation...which I know I posted about already and am willing to, but I know it is going to be more pressure for me to stay here with the kids. <P>I'm just not trusting of his motives. It's as if he wants me to allow his dysfunction to define the kids lives, and I do not believe it is in the best interest of the kids to do that.<P>I've truly let go. I'm sorry he is having such a hard time in his life....I truly do want for him to be happy...that's all I ever really wanted. I can accept that this is what it is.... but now I feel TRAPPED in his life choices. ANd I do not think it is better for the kids to stay "trapped". It is hard to rely on someone who has changed so much...jobs...marraiges....personalities...and to depend that he won't DO IT AGAIN...if and when he finds out that this NEW him won't make him happy either.<P>Is there anyone else going through this.. I guess I'm just venting... I do know that I have bailed him out emotionally all of the years of our marraige... and I am no longer willing to do that.

Don't really know what to say other than I am thinking of you and my prayers are with you.<P><BR>My H is the WS and I have 3 kids and it really makes me angry the way he treats them, like they an object rather than little people with feelings. I don't understand this behavior also. I wish someone could explain it to me and give me a solution on how to fix it.<P>Hopelessmom

Hi Tootrusting,<P>I guess he wants it all, right? His family just waiting for him when he wants to take the time and his "other" life. Sounds like everything is about HIM..<P>I'm sorry , but this is really making me mad....he has the nerve to put pressure on you with all of the mess he has and is making? Can you at least talk to Steve Harley? I know you are in counseling but maybe he can give you an objective view? I sure can't give rational advice but please know you're in my prayers. ......LU

Thanks for the thoughts and replies.<P>LU, I spoke with S.Harley a few times in the beginning and when I found out about the pregnancy. He actually thought that reality would set in with the birth of the baby. BUt it really hasn't.<P>Seems that H just morphed into a new personality and expects the whole world to go with it. When asked what he is going to do by his mom he'll answer "I don't know...but your not going to like it"<P>It is hard to believe that he would ever have the kid's best interests in mind.<P>I also think that the Harley's say that if the WS won't give up the affair that you should move away. I realize that in most cases the WS starts off by distancing themselves from the family (spouse/kids) which my H did in the beginning and I don't know if it was pressure from his counselor or family pressure, but he started breezing in and out of here a lot.... all at his convienience.<P>At any rate...a true plan B is almost impossible here. He does get enough contact with me and the kids...but kind of like he has us in some corner of a room....nice and safe....knowing that I am taking care of "this" life while he continues to live his "other" life.<P>Problem now is that I've pretty much let go entirely. I wish him well, but want some sort of stronger and deeper foundation for me and the kids...which I feel I will have moving "home". I am ready for some peace for me and the kids.<P>He can't seem to be forthcoming with any truth in his life....I've accepted it...but don't necessarily think it is in the kid's best interests to live with.<P>There's no point in getting angry at him. I feel bad that he is "stuck" in this state. I just don't want the kids and I to be "stuck" also.

Hi Tootrusting,<P> Well, it sounds to me like you have made up your mind to move? If you think this is the best way you need to counter his (and if I remember correctly, mother-in-law's) pressure to stay put. Do you have any other support? <P>I guess it doesn't help to be mad, but I just feel so angry to what he has put you and the kids through. He sure doesn't seem to care about yours or the kid's feelings in any way. I would think having the kids grow up there with his "other family" thrown in their faces would be awful. Iknow they don't know now but eventually they will.I can't even imagine when they are school age....<P>Take care tootrusting,...you have been through so much,and I'm concerned about you and your kids......LU

thanks Lu, I am actually OK and so are the kids. I have to make some tough decisions despite the fact that they are in the dark re: the details etc.<P>I've had to come to the realization that I married a Narcissist. He was actually a wonderful H and father while we were "mirroring" for him what he wanted to be at the time.<P>But I've accepted it, mourned the loss and am ready to move on. I actually do not have any problem with him moving (with or without his current "supply") to be closer to us. It isn't that I want to take his kids away from him, I just want to give the kids and I a stronger foundation with which to live out the rest of our lives.<P>And for me, it will be putting myself in an area with some friends and family for emotional support, an area with better potential for ME to get a job, a new relationship if it's meant to be etc. etc.<P>He devalued us SUDDENLY...and completely... and became someone new I suppose to mirror what this person wanted or to fill the void he seems to have within him... <P>All I know is that I can't help him. The kids can't help him...and I can't let his dysfunction define us anymore.<P>And I am NOT being mean about it. I am very civil and nice to him and still treat him with the respect that any human being deserves. I've apologized, not placed any blame on anyone and will not do so. I do not see myself as a victim, just someone getting up and dealing with the situation as it has been handed me. <P>One of his arguments to get me to do what he wants is that it is not the kids fault that this happened... And I agree. Therefore I do not feel that it is in their best interests to be forced to accept all of his new and changed rules of life. <P>I had been wavering so much....and praying about it so much, but as I see my words written down I feel more and more peace about it. Part of this process for me in this whole situation was understanding more about ME... and discovering and accepting that I do have value...that I don't have to please everyone.... I guess I have needs too.. And one of the biggest is to not be an object that can be manipulated for everyone else's gains.<P>There has been a sense of detachment for me during this process, including a stronger resolve in my faith, that has allowed me to come to terms with my own insecurites and fears. I actually see a lot of positives. I have become so much better of a parent. I used to think my H was the better parent... I used to think my H had most of the positive qualities... higher intelligence, more patience, etc.etc. In many ways I've sold myself short. <P>I no longer feel that way about myself....so that is a positive also. <P>BUt it is an ongoing process. Detachment from expectations of other persons,places and things, and a greater reliance on the unseen... stronger, deeper roots of life.<P>Thanks again for the support.

HI Tootrusting,<P> You have done a magnificent job of being handed a terrible situation , looked inward, and have come to a sense of peace...I admire your grace and outlook on life.<P>I'm concerned that since you are so nice that you will let your H and mother in law influence your decisions. I'm so happy to hear that you are valuing yourself and have detached. From what it sounds like , a move would be the best for you and the kids.<P>I know (or think I know, who really knows?) that if I was in your shoes, I'd be moving too. In fact, we also moved to a very small ,southern, family town and H is also physician. It's been tough for me but I can't IMAGINE trying to live here in your situation......Prayers,......LU

Hi Lu, sorry you seem to be in the same sort of boat. Are you close to family at least? Do you work? Is your H living with the OW? Do you have kids? <P>It is difficult to live in a small town where the two people involved (my H and OW) have sort of thumbed their noses at everyone....kind of like "only we matter" "so who cares what anyone else thinks"<P>I had requested from the beginning that my H tell OW to be discreet, but he either blamed it all on me (knowledge around town) or said he couldn't control what OW said.<P>So, in my particular case I am not only dealing with H's betrayal...but OW's as well. (she knew me and my kids and I guess took it upon herself to portray everything as my fault to justify their position) It's kind of hard to believe that these two would ever have my kids interests in mind.<P>Oh well.<P>I don't think I will allow my H or his family to influence me at this point. I know I've tried to do my best in this situation. I just feel indifferent at this point. I've let go...I think H and his family should now also.<P>I'm not asking him to change back, I'm not asking him to see the light...all I want at this point is some support for me and the kids. He could make this easier on all of us if he'll just recognize that we need to be elsewhere. It really makes it easier on him anyway. He can just go on with his new life. If it is the fact that he feels guilt that he treats the kids this way...I can only think that if we are further away from him he may feel less guilt. Maybe his relationship with the kids will improve when he does see them.<P>I guess I'll have to get a mediator anyway. My lawyer says you have to when you can't agree re: the kids. I can't really talk to him (the new him) anyway. Which is kind of weird...we talked a lot during our marraige... didn't fight much.... I don't think the kids ever saw us fight. But, I guess part of that was me. I would say that I was more easygoing than him. More things bugged him and I just went along with him. I probably never set good boundaries, just let him have his way.<P>Just prior to this event...I had begun saying "no".... Little did I realize that saying No would cause him to "forget" everything about our relationship and family!!!<P>Guess it is kind of like an adult version of a temper tantrum.<P>

Hi Tootusting,<P> We are actually in recovery and have moved to this small town (no family here) to start over. Recovery has not gone very smooth and it's been a tough adjustment just being in this town. I found out he was still calling the OW from here and almost left ....next time I will be out of here. I can NOT imagine being here under your circumstances.<BR> <BR> I need to capture some of your serenity!.....best to you Tootrusting.....keep us posted...LU<BR>

Lu, I'm sorry that your recovery is not going as smoothly as you would like. I pray that it will get easier. It is like taking a pacifier out of their mouths...or a needle from their arms.<P>It's taken me awhile to gain some peace about it...and it is still difficult at times. My H has been lying about getting a new place. Or at least withholding info from me. If I ask very nonchalantly...as in "s told me you took him to a house..great..you can take some of your stuff" He denies it..."I didn't take him to ahouse".<P>Found out that this past weekend he took kids to a house...and I asked him again about it so he can take his stuff...and he denied again or atleast told me he just found a house he was interested in renting.... 4 br's pretty big in a nice neighborhood. He took the kids there last night and they told me all of his stuff is there.... So, obviously he moved in already. I mean who cares at this point...<P>Like I answered in Bonnie Sept's post...they can seem to make a sport of it. I say I'm out of the game...but it really gets to the kids which gets to me.<P>My H made a big deal out of making us look like all we cared about was material possessions...that he had too much and that he and OW had some antimaterialism bond.<P>Of course he took her to SF...N.O. and N.Y.C. Three of the most "antimaterialistic" cities in the country...wouldn't you say.<P>Then he began buying things like nintendos etc.....telling the kids not to tell me.<P>My kids are upset because we will have to give up our nice house and move into a smaller place and Dad will have a nice house. I would like to tell the kids the truth,,,,but try to keep what I feel in check. I think the added distance will help with that. They won't see the inconguencies on a daily basis. <P>So...now when the kids ask for something I just tell them to ask their dad. I know he will get it for them... a new computer for D...a trampoline for son. It's funny, cause though he seems to be doing things to punish me... i don't care. He can have it all. <P>What I feel some anger about is not being able to tell the kids anything. I dislike having to cover his lies... But my kids know there is something different about him. Son thinks it is all because he had a concussion from a bike accident (which he did) and D thinks he thinks to much and doesn't sleep and has a hole in his brain. We actually laughed about it. It really is absurd I'll tell you!!! You have to keep a sense of humor or you will go insane yourself. Or be sucked into their abyss...which I would like to avoid at all costs.