I'm just so frustrated today. I guess I feel like I keep giving the ex breaks and he's never happy. In our 6 yr. history of pre divorce, divorce and now long time post divorce he's still not getting any better. During our divorce we went through a couple of mediators and he went through 3-4 attorney's because he didn't like what they had to say. He was told over and over that he was making unrealistic demands and chasing rainbows. He was told to get "help" but he would keep going in an attempt to find somebody that agreed with him. He is now at the point where his own parents and siblings will have nothing to do with him. He was told by them that they were not taking his side and they were not taking my side, they only cared about the kids and that his behavior was hurting the kids. So, he feels the world is against him and it's all my fault, he does nothing wrong. I have tried and tried to be fair to him, to the point that I feel I've been overly fair. I called the County some months ago and reduced his daycare amt. I was told I didn't have to do that but if I felt I "needed" too that I should put it in writing. I did. I have never charged him his half of the children's medical expenses or his half for glasses etc... We use to live 2 miles from him and I never said a word when he'd bring them home 6-8 hours early on his weekends without even notifing me first. If he wanted an hour or two instead of his entire weekend I accomodiated him. We recently moved and now we live 15-20 minutes from him. He has decided that if I don't drive the kids 50% of the time for his visitation that he just won't take them at all. His visitation is suppose to start at 5:00 on Friday but he doesn't get home until 6:00. So, I've been driving them on his Friday's and I've waited until 6:00 when I have brought them. He says our papers do not state that he is responsible for visitation transportation. He's correct, but it doesn't state that I am either. It's a no brainer that if he doesn't pick them up he waives his weekend so it's a catch 22 on his part. But, I drive the kids to his home for their sake, not his. He went two years when we lived close to him without seeing them or calling them and I remember their pain when he did that. So, for them if it takes me driving them to him so that he'll see them I do. What I refuse to do is pick them up on Sunday nights. Many reasons for this. For one, according to the papers his visitation doesn't end until Monday and if I were to take them early he could say I was interfering with his legal visitation. Or, he'd have me arrive at 8:00 and he would not be there. He's done that in the past. Or, he'll have me sit in the car until he's ready to send the kids out. Or, sometimes him and his girlfriend have a hay day calling me names while I stand in their yard waitng for the kids. I just feel that he's darn lucky that I'm even willing to bring them to him on Friday's. Ok, my point I'm trying to get too. We attended mediation 2 years ago regarding visitation issues and the mediator and myself thought it went very well. My ex seemed pleased with the outcome and the mediator told him I was very fair and he was glad that we cooperated. I received a letter two days later from the ex telling me that mediation was not legally binding and that he didn't agree with anything. Mediators just always took my side! The pain and frustration from that mediation is something I never want to repeat. It's a cycle that turns out the same. Now, I get another mediation request in the mail. He wants me to do most if not all of the driving for his visitation. So, he feels entitled to my paying his share of the daycare, medical costs and his driving. This is insane. I know what mediation will bring. The mediator will tell him he's asking for more then the courts would ever give him, he'll blame me and the verbal abuse will start up again. Mediation only makes him more bitter and vandictive. I wrote a letter to the mediator explaining our past and told them that I'd be more then willing to continue driving the kids to his home but would not pick them up and my reasoning. I also asked that we have seperate mediation sessions because I am not mentally able to sit in a room with the ex when I know he's not telling the truth about anything in regards to cooperation. I don't know if they will allow that or not but I just don't know what to do anymore. I'm tired....I run the kids all over every night for their appointments and I drive them back and forth to see HIS family because I know it's important that the kids have a relationship with their grandparents and uncles on his side since he refuses to make sure the kids get to see his family. I'm sorry but he makes me want to puke!

Wow. I can't believe he's still torturing you even after you have been D and are in a new relationship. How long can his anger and bitter last or will it ever stop at all? It seems to me that he's putting blame to you. Doesn't he has the heart to forgive if not forget and think about the kids? I'm so sorry you're feeling fustrated today. I can totally feel your pain. I don't have any good advice to give you but just want to let you know that we're here for you. Hope it feels better to get your fustration off your chest out here.<P>Love and hug to you. Take care.<BR>

BonnieSept. That's the problem with someone who is told he needs help and won't get it. He won't get it until he wants it. And even then...if they do get help as in counseling... it won't help if they can't see the "problem"<P>I'm really sorry you are going through this. Isn't there any way you can get some relief in the way of boundaries for yourself. Maybe you shouldn't keep getting him off the hook.<P>I'm just wondering because I am about to begin this process too. I am initiating a D and trying to move away and will most likely have to go into mediation with a man who seems to have morphed into someone with a jr.high school mentality.<P>I'm afraid I'm going to be somewhat tougher, because I've decided it is not in mine or the kids best interest to be treated this way SUDDENLY and by his own admission that he is being selfish and lying..... and he doesn't like it...but oh well.<P>Won't the mediator help you set specific guidelines for visitation etc...and if he doesn't abide by them...it's tough beans for him???<P>I also gave my H carte blance re: visitation...because he whined that his life was so complicated and he wasn't happy...then I found out much more ... and with the help of the kids counselor, who found his behavior unjustifiable...gave him stricter boundaries for visitation....which he also tried to buck. He even bombed his way into the counselors office to find out why she thought it was in their best interest to do things this way.<P>She stood her ground based on what she has heard from the kids and he backed down....but he still tries to get around everything....and still lies to me....purposefully keeping things from me as if is has become a sport to him....<P>So...I'm moving away...so I won't have to deal with it anymore. I wish him the best, but I don't have to subject myself to his abuse.<P>I know how difficult it is with kids involved...but I can't help thinking that the kids won't learn any boundaries for behavior if an adult that they will emulate (dad) doesn't have any.<P>Have you ever read any of Dr. Irene's information??? There are some good articles on the Narcissistic personality. Info on the personality type and some suggestions for the people involved with the personality type.

Hi Bonnie,<P>Hey girlfriend, use some paragraphs! These cryin eyes can't read thru all that as easily anymore!!! <P>I know its frusterating, but unfortunately all you can do is go back thru the courts to see what he's offering for visitation. Add transportation in there. Most of the cases I've heard the non custodial parent does all the transportation unless needs a favor. Let him take some responsibility and pick them up after he gets home. Also, if he were to drop them off, you wouldn't be called names by him and OW or have to wait like that either.<P>If you feel that the only reason he takes these visits are because you are dropping off, thats sad for the kids, and it will be a tough decision for you to make.<P>Hugs, Dana<BR>

Thanks for your responses. In researching the internet in regards to MN mediation I found out some info that is helpful to me. It lists when Mediation is not a good idea and some of them are in regards to past verbal or physical abuse, fear that the person will not be honest and that you don't trust them or fear that they are trying to play the martyr. It also talks about being able to have a one-on-one with the mediator if you do not want to be in the room with the other. That's all I wanted and now that it looks like I'll be able to do that I feel better.

<BR>DanaB,<P>Actually, most cases usually split transportation 50/50. Because Bonnie moved farther away, her ex would have a very good claim that she should provide 50% of the transportation and IMO Bonnie *should* provide 50% of the transportation. The usual logistical solution is to have the parent receiving custody pick up the children. My advice would be to switch to having the ex do the pickups, whereas Bonnie should do the dropoffs at his place.<P>Bystander

Hey Bystander. That's how it's been done. I've been dropping off on his Fridays. FYI, he didn't want to do any driving when I lived 2 miles away so in his particular case it's isn't "fair", it's control. Now he wants me to do the Sunday pick ups and that is what the mediation is about. No matter how much I give he wants more.

Hello BonnieSept,<P>You give him an inch and he wants a mile etc... <P>You have amazing patience, and I hope you stay strong! I don't know if it's possible but perhaps someone from the legal side could go with you just so you have a witness to his behavior, to his unwillingness to work things out for HIS children! In his attempt to continue to control you his children are suffering and that's sad. <BR>It seems to me now it's a legal matter... I don't think you should have to go out of your way any more then you already have done, and are doing.<P>Stick to your guns girl!!!

Bonnie, that sounds like a good idea.....not being in the room at the same time.<P>I'm at the point that I really don't want his input into what is best for the kids. I'd rather have him tell the mediator without me...and then for me to talk to the mediator separately. <P>I just haven't been able to talk to my h in 15 months...and now I really don't want to. Not anger..just indifference.<P>I think I have to have mediation in my state...I'm going to try to do it individually. <P>It has taken me a long time Bonnie...and a lot of counseling and soul searching and praying...but I can set my boundaries...be firm....lovingly.... (ok...so maybe 90% of the time!!!!)

<BR>Bonnie,<P>The solution is to have the parent receiving custody do the pickups. That means if he doesn't pick them up on Fridays he loses. If he does pick them up on Fridays, you should do the pickups on Mondays (or Sundays, whatever the papers say). The rest of his behavior is a desire to control you. <P>Btw, I still think a presumption of 50% JPC would have changed how things worked out in your case. When the system requires that someone is the winner and someone is the loser, its not exactly a surprise that bad blood develops.<P>Bystander

Hi Bonnie,<P>I think you got some great advice with the drop off's and pickups. The only hard thing is if he doesn't pick them up and you had plans your out of luck, but thats a seperate issue entirely. I agree with what was said, about it being about him controlling you . <P>Hugs, Dana<BR>

Hey, just heard back from mediation. They will let us meet in different rooms. She's also going to pull our papers from two years ago. Good thing because in that file is a nasty letter from him stating that he didn't agree with anything that was discussed and since it was not legally binding he wasn't going to follow it. I explained to the mediation service that I've tried to work with him for years and I've tried to be fair. The more I give the more angry he becomes. I also went as far as to tell her that he wasn't the brightest bulb and that even if "God" explained to him that I was being fair he wouldn't understand what they were saying. She agreed that I should NOT be picking the kids up from his home on Sunday nights. I understand how it would work if you were dealing with an "adult", but I'm not. By my taking the kids to his home on Friday I do not need to appear on his door step, facing him or his girlfriend. I drop them off, wait until he opens the door and leave. If he isn't home I can take the kids back home with me. No waiting in the drive way and no giving him an opportunity to game play. Now, I am not legally responsible for ANY transportation. In our particular state/County the NCP is 100% responsible for transportation given the short distance that we live from each other. I'm not arguing if that is fair or not because I always have been and always will participate in 50% of the transportion, ordered or not. By him doing the Sunday evening drop off it gives him less space for game playing. He either brings them home or they are not home by the court ordered time and he's in contempt. I'm not stuck waiting for the kids in his drive way and I'm not subjected to his verbal abuse. So, we'll see what this mediation brings. I also told her that I spend some time with the counselors through my employer being reminded that I need to love my kids more then I hate the ex. She seemed very sympathic and she wasn't the mediator that will handle us (she was the woman that heads it up), so I don't know if she was sincere or that was just part of "mediation". Oh boy.....

<BR>Bonnie writes:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>In our particular state/County the NCP is 100% responsible for transportation given the short distance that we live from each other.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'm wholly unsurprised to hear that. It wasn't that long ago that blacks were told to drink at separate water fountains, either.<P>Never justify immoral conduct by pointing to the law. Just because NCPs can be legally slapped around doesn't make it right. I personally don't even believe that citing such a law in mediation is legitimate behavior. JMO.<P>Bystander

Just a thought, since it IS mediation, and he probably didn't follow the "laws of marriage" anyhow, a 50/50 deal might work for you guys. That way both are compromising in some way.<P>I dont' have a clue about the law in my area, I just know several divorced people who's NCP does ALL transportation unless its a favor or extra visit. My ex does most of it, but if I have to be near his house anyhow, I'll save him the trip.<P>Dana<BR>