Amen - and NO WAY! I agree - how can you be friends with someone who betrayed you in the worst way possible and showed no remorse? My H had an affair, walked out with no concern for me whatsoever, was totally self-righteous about it, and acted as if he were the injured party. No one who has any self-respect can be friends with a person like that. When he asked me if we could be friends I told him no, that I choose my friends more carefully than that!!! I will be civil if I encounter him, but that is all. He deserves no more than that. He does not deserve my friendship, trust or respect. He threw all those things away - they meant nothing to him. How sad!!

RWD and Lady M, I agree 100% with you. Exactly the same situation happened to me. My x showed no remorse at all and also blamed me for everything she did. And latter on she also acted like nothing ever happened! She never took any responsibility for what she had done and also acted as if she were the injured party. She was (and actually is) always saying in a very aggressive and arrogant way: “It happened already, I can not do anything about it now. It belongs to the past! What do you want me to do?”<BR>All such attitudes from her had a positive impact on me because in the beginning I did not want to divorce but she wanted it by all means. All my separation process (acknowledging the affair, counseling, divorce papers, etc.) lasted about one and a half years.<BR>Within that period I gathered all such arguments (no remorse, egocentrism, narcissism, etc.) to convince myself that I should divorce her.<BR>It was a painful period but helped me to be 100% secure of my decision and now I do not see any chance for her to return to me or even to be my friend.<BR>It is not necessary to list here the characteristics of a friend. Everybody knows. But everybody also knows what a person can do to not merit the designation of friend.<BR>I had a lot of work to reconstruct my life, my self esteem and to see that I was in a bad marriage with a person that not only showed all such bad characteristics by the time of the affair and separation. Now I clearly see that this was just an exacerbation of her usual personality.<BR>If I encounter her I will try to be civil but I do whatever I can to not encounter her.<BR>

Good Guy,<P>What an interesting topic! You have received a lot of great replies. After re-reading this thread, even from when I posted I have altered my thinking a little. Thats the good thing about the varied opinions, is you can see things differently.<P>It is true, why didn't we stay friends before the break up, excellent point. I think I might want to alter my agreement with my ex from "friends" to "friendly" as for the sake of the kids.<P>I can't comment on the Plan B question because I never did a formal plan B, but there are a lot of people who could help you with that on the forum. Good luck!<BR>Dana<BR>

I think Distressed answered the question very well, but I wonder if the question is being taken too literally.<P>Your spouse says to you: "I've just betrayed you, spit on you, knocked you to the ground, and stomped on you. I intend to keep doing that. So let's be friends, OK?"<P>This is so clearly absurd that I think your spouse's state of mind renders him/her incapable of understanding what he/she is asking. Here's what I think your spouse is really saying: "I want to escape the consequences for my actions."<BR>

just for a second, since this topic is near and dear to our survival:<P>Friends: a <B> noun </B> 1) one attached to another by affection or esteem; 2) one that is not hostile<P>Friendly: an <B> adjective </B> used to describe a noun, <BR>of, relating to, or befitting a friend as: 1) showing kindly interest and goodwill; 2) not hostile<P><B> Friends, nice try, they want cake and eat it to! no way! </B><BR><I> Friendly, describing my demeanor [noun] when in conversation [another noun] with X, or in front of the kids, yes. </I><P>OK, technical analysis, yes, understand the english language correctly, and you will understand precisely why we are problems in this area of communication.<P>Second, PLAN B with kids.<P>My implementation is as follows: I will answer her questions, or discuss kid issues that she brings up, or I <B> need </B> to bring up, particularly scheduling. I do not ask permission/advice/suggestions/opinions of X for anything that I will do with the kids, or with anything else, <B> UNLESS </B> she must participate to make the end result happen.<P>I can operate with minimal supervision fairly well, in fact, very well, and just a well with no supervision. The kids will just have to make up their own minds whose story/opinion/philosophy is more believable, and serves them better in the future. <B> Teach and lead by example and kids will get a good message. </B> Aren't different life philosophies the basis for why we are here anyway? It is a waste of time to be a team member with a person who is not a friend [noun].<P>If a couple failed at POJA in the marriage, what makes one think that it can work better or at all after divorce? <B> HHHHEEELLLOOOO!!!!! </B><P>Example: taxes, i need cooperation to get the form filled out. I did it in turbo tax, used adobe acrobat to send the printout to her via email, and she can review it. This is a non confrontational manner in which to communicate.<P>Example: she wants me to pay our tax bill even though she did not have taxes taken out of her part time job, and she had all the exemptions, and I had none. She as a math teacher of 20 years, does not understand how she has to pay taxes when she does not have taxes taken out of her paycheck. I merely rephrase the point to ask her if it is fair that I don't pay child support because I don't want to? (dangling preposition for those technical english types )<BR>This is a friendly [adjective] facade [noun] needed to influence people. <P>Example: i needed a ride from my house to my parents house after being away for over a week. The kids were in the car when X drove me to parent's house. I talked with the kids the whole time, telling them about my trip, X never asked questions, i never volunteered information to her, but I was FRIENDLY in demeanor. I used manners to thank her, and that was all.<P><B> Co parenting </B> is an IDEAL concept, a better, but maybe not good, management of an unfortunate situation. Keep in mind that ideals are great, but just that, ideals.<P>What is required to make this happen? personal detachment from an outcome you have just lost significant control over, and the philosophy that you do your best, but the outcome may not be the original one that you had dreamed about.<P>back to just lurking, and to serious work.<P>

Once again, GnomeDePlume, you've hit the nail on the head:<P><B>Here's what I think your spouse is really saying: "I want to escape the consequences for my actions."</B><P>Yup. Right on. You bettcha. Alrightamundo.<P>That's EXACTLY what my H is trying to say. He still doesn't understand how devastating his actions were and probably never will. End the marriage....okay, have enough b*lls to do that, if you really were that unhappy. End it by first sticking you fist in my chest, ripping my heart out, stomping and kicking it all over the place with the OW, then lying about it, cheating me out of time, money, my future, my past?<P>And you think we're friends? <P>

Hi, <P>This is a topic where I must add my 2 cents. Friends, we chose them carefully in every other part of our life and tell our children how important it is to chose their friends carefully. Then we one day(s) find out that we are related to someone who wants to use and abuse our friendship. Worse yet they want to go from being our best friend to our best enemy. In some cases go from friend to fiend. Fiend: 1.a diabolically evil person. 2. an addict (as in dope fiend) 3. One totally engrossed in something (A.). How did they go from friend to fiend? They lost their R. They lost their REASONABLENESS. At that time, we lost our friend. <P>Can we be friends while they continue to be fiends. In most cases probably not. I know in mine it would be extremely difficult. I attempt to deal with him civilly in all encounters, yet he manages to twist each one and attempt to make me look like the villian. He is a fiend. <P>Being friendly to a fiend is not fine. (ok bad joke). It is getting late and I am getting a bit punchy. Back to the subject. I think civil is best, being friends is asking for a bit much. H even asked me at one point (talk about losing one's mind), H said he wanted us (OW & I) to one day be friends. Can you believe that? ALIEN FIEND on the loose. <P>Gotta go. Great posts here, I enjoyed them all. <P>Good night,<BR>L.

<B> They lost their R. They lost our RESPECT. </B>