Hi friends,<P>I can't find much on "conflict avoider" in the website, and I know I've read it time and time again. <P>How would you describe it?<P>Dana<BR>

I'd answer you about it, but it might get us into an argument.

Hi Dana,<P>in a word or three, MY EX-HUSBAND!!!!!!!!<P>It's 11.30 pm here, I'm dead tired, I'll respond in full in the morning when I've got a clear head.....<P>love and hugs<P>Jo

My ex too!!<P>Here's a typical scenerio: (and it really happened!)<P>He comes home late. <P>I ask where he was. <P>He says, "Oh, did you miss me?". <P>I say yes, but also, I am worried... had you been in an accident... <P>He says, "Oh, that's so sweet, you were worried". <P>I say, "So, where WERE you then?" <P>He says, "It's okay now, I'm home and safe". <P>And then he walks away. <P>So, I come to find out he was with OW, and I only get that out of him after following him around the house bugging him until he tells me. <P>And the USUAL response to ANY question that he didn't want to answer was simply to walk away. Sometimes in his car!! LOL<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

Dana,<P>I'm not trying to be flip, but a conflict-avoider is someone who will do anything and everything to avoid a conflict, including compliment, deny, avoid, dodge, accuse, refocus on something else...anything. <P>Now, I know this sounds contradictory, because they will start a fight in order to avoid conflict, but the conflict is an open and prolonged disagreement whereas the fight that they pick is usually just to shift the focus to something other than the conflict topic. <P>New Beginning's example is perfect. Notice that her real question to her husband is "Where were you?" and he does everything BUT answer that question. I'd be willing to bet that he knows there would be a conflict about where he really was, so first he asks her a question back--then he compliments her--then he dodges the question--then he literally walks away. After all of that, he still hasn't answered the core question, "Where were you?" and no doubt, if New Beginning had pressed the issue, he would have somehow turned the focus from where he was to "you don't trust me, you nag me, why do you have to know, etc." in order to avoid the conflict of WHERE HE WAS. <P>Not every single times, but often conflict-avoiders are also verbally abusive, because they will deny the reality of their spouse, cut down their spouse's self esteem, and respond in angry, judgemental ways--ALL TO AVOID CONFLICT. <BR>But bear in mind that all of this is generalities. Each individual case is different, some go to any lengths to avoid conflict and some just have a tendency to avoid. Some are extremely verbally abusive and some are inconsiderate, but not really abusive. <P>Hope this is helpful!!<P><BR>CJ<P>------------------<BR>Judge your success by what you had to give up in order to get it.

Oh CJ, you're exactly right... he would OFTEN turn it around to "my problem" with trust, etc.<P>And there's yet ANOTHER kind of conflict avoidance that I forgot, but lived with... it's the "do nothing but seeth (sp?) approach"... Here goes:<P>Him: What do you want for dinner?<P>Me: How about Chinese?<P>Him: Okay.<P>Off we go to a Chinese place.<P>**But** HE WANTED MEXICAN. So, he grumbles through the meal, snaps at the kids, picks at me...<P>He didn't want to "upset" me (conflict) so he went with my choice to avoid it...<P>I got a million of 'em!! and Life, ya know?<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

Dana,<P>Conflict avoider --- try looking under 'passive agressive'.<P>My stbx.<P>Flat out? He never said a word about anything that upset him. By the time he said something, it had already boiled over and was too late to do anything.<P>He insists that he said something to me. I never heard a word.<P>He would never argue about *anything*.<P>I call him "the perfect fence-post walker." He can walk into a room filled with two arguing factions and come out smelling like roses; friends with everyone; with two enemies, one on each arm. He can walk into the same crowd and propose a solution that all can agree with, because he doesn't want to cause trouble with anyone. So, a lot of people respect him because of his level opinions.<P>I've also seen him sit there and nod his head throughout a conversation, like he's agreeing with people who are talking. Truth is, he's merely acknowledging what they are saying, although his head is nodding 'yes'. He does this with everyone --- it can be quite agrivating. You don't know if he's agreeing with you, just noting what you are saying, or just doing it to shut you up.<P>That's the best I can give you....<BR>~Amy

Yeah, I'll join in. The answer is: my W.<P>Never told me that anything was wrong with our marriage, until "the speech". And then, I was told that I left the toilet seat up once, 8 years ago; that I didn't buy a faucet that SHE wanted (even though she didn't tell me) 10 years ago; that she did something on the house to please ME (even though I didn't want it done, but she didn't bother to ask me) 4 years ago, etc.<P>Another good indication is that when they do manage to "run away" from their problems, they are very happy. This is why Harley told me that my W is expressing great relief now that she moved out, even though she says that she is "sad and lonely". Harley said it's equivalent to a kid being happy because they got away with not doing their homework; unfortunately, they can't run away from the final exam .<P>AGG

I have a question about this as well. Do conflict avoiders decide on their own what your opinion will be never ask you then use this to build resentment against you. This is a real issue with me. H would like to do lots of things that he knows are not feasible right now so instead of talking to me about them and perhaps working out a compromise he shuts me out. Now he wants out of the marriage to enjoy those things because he sees that way as the easy way. Less conflict. <P>How do conflict avoiders go through life. Isn't life full of conflict and negotiating your way throught his conflict?

Sisyphus, very funny, although I have seen you argue plenty of times around here! <P>OK the reason I asked this question was for 2 reasons. I wasn't sure if I myself have turned into a conflict avoider out of fear of rejection or some result of the treatment I got in my marriage.<P>My marriage was opposite, he screamed and yelled for everything. I still get a headache when he raises his voice.<P>I've been asking how men and women handle stress in a different thread, but was wondering if this conflict avoiding had more to do with a problem I'm having in my own life but this doesn't sound like it, although in a way, sounds a little like me? <P>I can compare the 2, conflict avoidance, and screaming and yelling and would feel safe to say that neither are good for a relationship or marriage, I just want to fall somewhere in between.<P>I think its probably healthy to argue in a communicative way, but again something I don't have any experience in.<P>My bf complained once that he asked me where I wanted to go to dinner a while ago. I replied, oh I don't know, what are you craving? The reason I asked , is I wasn't even hungry and was looking for a few ideas, he told me, its my treat, don't ask me! At the end of the discussion, I still didn't have any ideas, and I felt he was frusterated with me! Truth is, I've been to more places in the last 7 months then I've been in the previous 11 years, so really I'm not all that educated on "what" there is to do or where are the good places.<P>Well there's my example.<P>And to Good Guy, only once in 8 years? I'd say you just might be a pretty good guy! <P>

Conflict Avoider: Same as the Ostrich Syndrome.<P>When an issue arises, conflict avoiders hide. The put their proverbial 'head in the sand'. Leaving their behind fully exposed to all the elements.<P>A very common ailment for WS's (no offense intended for recovering WS's because you are not doing this now). A conflict avoider will go to great extremes and pain to not only avoid responsibility and blame but also manipulate in their minds, heart and other body parts and spit out excuses one after another as to why the issues created by them are NOT their problem! They are also good at blaming others for their OWN problems. They are very good and making others fix their problems. <P>Experienced conflict avoiders are superior persons. They believe they do no wrong and do not allow others to show expose the conflict avoiders inefficiencies. They also make a big deal of misc errors made by others (esp. BS) and minimize their gross wrongs. A common excuse is: "Just because I did wrong doesn't mean you can every make a mistake." Are all BS's perfect? Exp. Conflict Avoiders require that all BS's be perfect in every way (kind of like a Mary Poppins). That's because they live in a fantasy world. <P>Example: H has A. H moves out to be with OW. H changes job with less hours for less pay to be able to spend more time with OW. H increases his bills because he is now spending money on OW and other related items (like cell calls, vacations, hotels for 'discreet encounters, dinners, p.o boxes, secret voice mail accounts by Sprint, etc.) Hundreds and even thousands of dollars. <P>Get out your calculators and see how the mind of a conflict avoider works! So if H reduces his income by 20% and increases his spending by 50%, there is now a 30% deficit right? According to my calculator there is. But on the calculator used by the conflict avoider, there is an increase of incoming income by 30%! How is this? I honestly don't know, but this is based on an actual case. <P>See H figures, if he does not pay his bills, he will have more money to spend on renting a room ($800.00 per month + $125.00 storage). Does it matter that he is negligent? Not to the conflict avoider? Does it matter that to pay H's bills, wife must move out of her home and spend rent money on H so that the collector's don't come after wife? No, this is not a issue for the conflict avoider'. <P>How many conflict avoiders are there out in this A. world? My guess is as good as yours. I believe it is in epedemic portions. We need to find a cure. Can these conflict avoiders be cured? What is the mortality rate? <P>These and other questions need to be researched.<P>L. <P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DanaB:<BR><B><BR>And to Good Guy, only once in 8 years? I'd say you just might be a pretty good guy! <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Well, I think she made up even that one incident . Now, our son leaves the seat up, so his sister ends up falling in .<P>To HopelessinAZ: you are exactly right! My W didn't bother to even bring up things because she thought she KNEW that I would resist; so instead, she just didn't bother asking, and built up resentment for 11 years . When she finally popped a gasket, it was ugly... You would have thought I was responsible for every bad thing that ever happened in her life. I'm not joking. She was angry at me that her childhood sucked... Go figure...<P>AGG<P><p>[This message has been edited by AGoodGuy (edited March 30, 2001).]

conflict avoiders have three basic plays in their playbook:<P>1) the best defense is a good, loud, projection offense, or<P>2) turn and flee/ shut down, find other types of activities to busy themselves.<P>3) dissect your statement into as many pieces as possible, take the relevant piece out of context, use absulte, black and white references, and then declare the discuss invalid or moot.<P>hey, works like a champ, don't know how far they will get.<P>Only some of you know around here, but at one time in my life for good reasons, i tried to run away from myself, and my perceived problems. the funny thing is, everytime i looked over my shoulder, there i was!! the therapist then said, "Well, first, you have to decide which side of the fence you want to land! the conflict is all within your own mind!" the other thing i remember realizing is that I have to speak up for myself, no one else will.<P>AGG,<P>you are not alone! its called a midlife crises, and once one gets through it, they get to take the final exam!<P>

hmmmm sounds like my wife.<P>There weren't any obvious problems until I got the speech. Now after 8 months of dissecting my marriage, I see what the problems were. I would never trivialize my part in the destruction of my family, but her not being honest about her feelings and fleeing to the company of others was what really killed this marriage.<P>You know, it's funny, in a tragic sense, but I also got the toilet seat complaint in the list of things that were bad. That and the myriad of other things I found out were wrong in the 36 days I was given to fix the unfixable. <P>So, it seems like the conflict avoider, in my case, waits until the straw breaks the camels back before they say anything. By then it's usually too late, and all the problems they list are nothing more than their rationalizations for their behavior. Sort of likes Tom's play #2.<P>It's not conflict avoidance, more like procrastination, 'cause the conlict eventually maifests itself. Usually with their departure.<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

I think a person can avoid conflict from a dominant <I>or</I> submissive position. <P>The dominant conflict avoider uses conflict avoidance as a way of winning. The spouse is turned away until they leave in frustration.<P>The submissive conflict avoider never tries to negotiate for what they want. They too, eventually leave in frustration--blaming the BS for being like the former, when in reality the BS never had a chance to prove themselves something else. <P>It could be that a one-time event established a bad precedent among two people who could have done things a lot better, if they had made the effort to overcome that bad experience.<P>If people avoid conflict, it's because they don't feel save <I>in</I> conflict. That can be for reasons of Family of Origin, or it can be something a spouse did one or more times to negate the feeling of safety, or it can be some of both.<P>Bottom line: most everyone could do better. Especially people who have been divorced.

Passive Aggressive - my stbx is the king! He lived under a philosophy that he used to "joke" about with our friends "It's better to ask forgiveness than permission." GRRRRR.....<P><BR> Is that conflict avoidance? Maybe. Passive aggressives have Bill Clinton as their poster child...I can never get a specific answer out of my ex...yes or no? Black or White? I get a question, an argument, a different scenario but never a direct answer. I call it Plausible Deniability. It's a way he can wiggle out of any situation he's created and not have to take any accountability for his actions/decisions. <P>It REALLY doesn't work well during divorce proceedings with attorneys and judges and such...he's only just beginning to learn this.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by soon2b_alone:<BR><B>Passive Aggressive - my stbx is the king! He lived under a philosophy that he used to "joke" about with our friends "It's better to ask forgiveness than permission." GRRRRR.....<BR> Is that conflict avoidance? Maybe. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>While that quote may strike you the wrong way, it was Grace Hopper's motto. She was a mathematician who joined the Navy to get involved in the effort to make one of the first computers. She invented the first programming language, COBOL. She was a fiesty old favorite guest of Johnny Carson, and subject of a 60 Minutes segment. She taught at Annapolis I believe. The Navy kept trying to retire her, and she kept railing against that ... I don't think they finally got her out until she was 87 or something. <P>Her motto is one of the best ways to survive in a bureaucracy. It may be a pig in a parlor in other aspects of one's life, or in other callings...<P>

bonnet/new beginning -- <P>When I read the subject, I was going to answer the same thing.<P>DanaB --<P>I would highly recommend this book: <I>Letting Go of Anger</I> by Ron Potter-Efron. (I think that's his last name.) It's on Amazon. It goes through the 10 most common types of anger management styles. Conflict avoiders are one larger type, of which passive-agressive (sneaky anger) is a subtype. There are other subtypes of conflict avoiders. It's very informative. You might even learn a little bit about your own anger management style in it. <P>A couple things I found very interesting from this book about conflict avoiders are a couple of traits of passive agressive types.<P>1) They might do things like tend to forget a lot. When they forget something (over and over again), they're the innocent ones. They just forgot. And it's the people that were relying on them that wind up getting agry. Leaves the passive agressor as "not so bad -- everyone forgets" but also not having to deal with the feelings. Let the other people be angry. I'm not the angry one. When in actually, they are. They're denying their anger.<P>And<P>2) They tend to procrastinate. You can ask them over and over and over to get something done. They follow the donkey methodology of the more others ask, dig your heels in harder. You're not going to get what you want by asking a passive agressor when they're angry because that's they're way of not letting anyone boss them around. In the end, the other person doesn't get their way, and again, it's the other person who winds up feeling the anger that the passive agressor doesn't have to.<P>And who would've thunk they'd be handling anger that way? The part that I found the most interesting is that they hand off their anger to other people. They're too good to be angry or angry is a wrong feeling for them. They don't like their anger. They want it to go away. But because anger will occur, (it's a part of nature), when they do get it, they need to pass it off to someone else because they won't allow themselves to feel angry. In a way, I see it tied to a lot of responsibility issues. They don't want to be responsible for their anger. And perhaps they show a lot of other irresponsibilities in life.<P>The book is a quick read and has lots of information. I hope you find it useful. Good luck.<p>[This message has been edited by Que Sera (edited March 30, 2001).]

Thanks for the recommendation, I'll check that book out. I don't think I'm dealing with a conflict avoider, but maybe more someone who withdraws to deal with things (still hard to deal with), but I still find myself wondering if I have become a conflict avoider after so much pain of the discovery of an affair. I wonder if our own style of dealing with anger changes after the experiences we go thru.<P>