Was reading the posts under "can we be replace." <P>Hope this helps, Refected, Bramble, Gnome and all those who may have children and are frightened of the prospect of doing it by themselves.<P>The Good. I was 33 yo. Left my second H, alcohol, neglect and emotional abuse a big factor. Scared to death that myself and 2 young children would suffer, but felt that they would suffer more by watching the their mom withstand these circumstances. H and I moved to another state for employment reasons. Tried to sell our house in FL.( which was totally unfurnished now, not even a fridge), but no takers in 3 months. (God at work). Finances really tough trying to keep bills paid and mortgage current on house there and apartment at new state. Said to myself, "you are only 33, do you want to be in your 60s and this is all there is to life?" Logic says no. Packed up my children, animals and everything else I could in my VW camper, and headed to my vacant "home."<P>For the first few years, it was all uphill. Garage sales became my staple. Still remember the excitment when I bougt beds for all of us, and especially that little 13" color TV. My children and I became so close. We were each others lives ... they never deserted me. Although finances were always a little tight, never a problem. <P>Those years were the very best years of my life. My D still says I am her hero. God bless her. My son was taken home to THE Father at 18. We had so many good times.<BR>Met my STBH at 40. Great times, great plans, great future. Life was good. 17 years of building financially, planning for retirement with my H, vacations, etc.<P>The Bad: After 17 years , he is in midlife crises and looking for greener grass. M had some troubles when finances were not as great and our businesses were not as successful, only natural. Did he tell me he was emotionally diviorced for the last couple years? No.<P>The Ugly: OW steps into my vulnerable Hs life. Tells him how wonderful he is and how beautiful their life will be together, and now he is ready to discard everything for her. We remain in the ugly OW stage. Doesn't love me, wants to see if it will work with OW.<P>Throughout my new M, I was not aware of ENs and all the other things that make a marriage solid. Certainly would have used that knowledge to make it affair proof.<P>You people here have a great advantage. 30s, a great time of your life with lots of future ahead. AND you know the MB principles. Don't hang on because you're afraid. Do what you know is best for you. <P>I found out life really began at 33 for me and it doesn't end at 57. Pain comes and goes. Am sure that the pain and rejection I feel now, will also go. My Hs adultery would leave me free from my marriage vows. It is me, not him that is making the choice to hang in there. In my state, if he wants a divorce ... he gets it. Since the M doesn't really mean much to him, he can do what he wants (except remarry)anyway. What's his motivation?<P>Love,Love to all. If the MB principles have been wasted on your S, they have served for your future. Believe it, there is a future.<P>"God bless us everyone" (Tiny Tim "A Christmas Carol") <BR>

Dear whatami,<P>Thank you so much for sharing your story. I really needed that encouragement today, as I am getting more than a little bit frazzled and burned out. I have spent the last year in complete fear of trying to make it on my own, but honestly in the last month or so, I've kinda reached the crest of the hill (or rollercoaster more likely) and am actually anticipating being on my own.<P>I'm totally intimidated, especially on days like this. My 5 month old daughter is only taking cat-naps, and crying the rest of the time. I am behind on 2 different websites for 2 different clients. I'm trying to finish up my paperwork for my D. Both of my boys (7 and 9) have severe difficulties, one academically, the other emotionally, because of the hell that we have been through. They need alot of attention that I just don't have to give them. And don't even begin to ask about all the driving, the sports activities, and all the other little details of life that have to get paid attention too. AND not to mention that I am behind on doctors appts, dentists and eye appts for all three of them!!! ARGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! <P>And somehow I force myself to breath and find time for myself, either reading here, or taking a shower, or calling my sponsor, or meeting a friend for lunch...<P>And it was so funny, when I told a girlfriend that my H is about to be served, she asked: "Are you getting nervous about the D?"<P>And my response was "I can't wait to get this weight from around my neck!!!" <P>And there was my real answer. My H has complicated my life for 10 years, and made all that stuff above even worse. One of my friends was totally shocked when I expressed amazement that her H actually got out of bed to help her with the kids in the morning - and she said: "Geez, that's what marriage is about, partnership!!" Well, I haven't had a partner, I've had an adult child that demanded my care and never gave back in return. With him out of the picture, it will probably be easier!!!<P>Yes, I'm afraid, and there's alot of days that I think that there is NO WAY any guy will ever want me, a divorced stay at home mom with 3 kids.<P>But right now, I don't want a guy, so I guess its a moot point!! <P>I think the MB principles have helped me SO MUCH in all of this. The Harleys showed me what marriage should be - and could be - and left me realizing that I had NEVER had a marriage like that, and even worse, my marriage never could be like that - as long as my H continued to deny his alcohol problem, and refused to stop cruising the single's scene.<P>So now I know what I want - now show me a guy that can produce!! Pretty few and far between I am sure (and I'm not including you very decent men that post here either). But this is also a good thing, it will save me from falling for the first guy that comes around. Thanks to the Harleys, my standards have been raised pretty darn high!<P>But the fact of the matter is that I'd rather be alone than live like I have been living anymore. And I don't want my boys to turn into men that act like their dad. I want them to learn that good men don't do what their father has done to me and to himself.<P>I am fortunate, you are right whatami, to have found these principles at the age of 33. I have a dear friend that calls me for advice who is 20. Do you know how many times I have told her that I wished I had understood what she understands at that age?? <P>So yes, I'm hoping that my life is just starting at 32.<P>Thank you so very much for telling me just what I needed to hear tonight!!! <P>((hugs)) BR<P>

Dear WAI and B Rose,<P>Ok, my day may be going a bit better than yours. I had help from a few good friends the last few days. So it is my turn to share. <P>B Rose, I guess I did not recall how much you are going through until I read your post. I wish we could all be closer together to help each other out. Like yourself, H is like a 'big' kid who does not want to grow up. In fact I sent him that type of e-mail just last night, telling him to grow up. <P>You have little ones and working real hard. That in itself on a good day is stressful. While I can not come over and babysit (though would like to - I miscarried last year and am getting too old to have another you know 40 ish), I would like to suggest, if you can to try and get some oils. Like Lavendar (the pure kind - lavendula agustafolia or something like that). Rub a bit on your neck or soak in a tub. Little pampering may go a long way. We are tense people living in an extremely selfish and stressful environment compliments of our WS's. <P>Breathe. Your client's web sites are important. I keep my little next to me doing his homeowork while I work on the computer at home. While I only have one, this is easier than 3 but somthing similar may work. Can the one having a hard time with school work tutor the younger one? Maybe the inspiration may rub off and make him feel better. Can you talk to the teacher's at school and ask for assistance? Maybe a buddy program. That's what my son's school has. <P>Just some suggestions. Take care you are all inspiring to us. <P>L.<BR>

I thank you too whatami,<P>Although I am feeling more angry, scared, and sad then ever. The thing is I have been on my own for two months now (with no support from STBXH) and I am doing very well for myself and actually can be proud of where I am and how I have made a new home/life for myself.<P>I don't have any children, so my circumstances are much easier than those who do.<P>I do intend to come out of this smarter in regards to marriage and am so grateful for what I have learned thus far here at MB.<P>Bramblerose, you and me both, are just starting life at 32!!!!<BR>Thanks, whatami<BR> Petrie

Ladies,<BR>Can't tell you how much you have helped me, just by feeling that what I did was encouraging to you. Rekindled my feelings of "I can do it". So proud of you, you will never regret doing it on your own. If you have down times, you will still have your self respect. Take that into the next relationship, and don't let a disrespectful action or remark go unchallenged. (Lovingly challenged, of course.)<BR>You will never regret your decision to be a person.<P>Orchid (HI!), Listen to her, she always has good advice. I must remember to get into that tub of extreme pampering. <P>Bramble, Know what you feel about the weight. Once you get over the fear, you'll be over the xH. With all the children,s needs, you'll have to accept less than a perfect performance. You're love is the most important thing for them. We can only do our best, and the little ones will push, complain, argue and drive you up a wall. When they get older, and you feel that you didn't do enough, they will astound you be saying "Mom, you're my hero." Please remember that in the frustrating times. Hope you have the support of your family in helping with the children. <P>Rejected, you are right. Life is now beginging with a much wiser you. Can only be the best yet to come. Sounds like you can handle what come next. <P>God bless you and keep you. <P> <P>

Dear Wai,<P>So much wisdom and care here. Funny huh, we have so much to share and we are connected with those who can not appreciate it and hurt the most by them. <P>How come I can relate so easy to those hear and not to my H?<P>What is it in us that keeps us going inspite of all the mental, emotional torture? Our faith, our family, our friends, our love and the supports/friends here. <P>Too bad all our good words can not be digested by those who need it the most. H asked that after we get divorced and then he comes to his senses, would I consider remarrying him? WHAT!!!! I had to then ask myself, WHY? <P>I felt that was a disrespectful question and refused to answer that. It was around that time that my eyes began to be opened and I started to see that if I did not respect myself and require others to respect me, H was going to use me not only as a doormat but let OW use me that way as well. No way!!!!!<P>But I could not fully break away. I needed the help and support that this board could give. You all have been there for me. This is a caring and sharing place. Experiences shared tho' no names mentioned. Lives intertwined to provide the hidden strength we all must have to survive. That is how I feel about being here. <P>For me this has been a soothing thread. <P>Again thanks & Aloha,<P>L.

Shhhhh...no one make any noise!! It's 5:30am and I'm the only one awake!!! Sheer bliss!! <P>(((Rejecteded))) With only 2 months under your belt, you are doing much better than I was. I've been separated from my H for 13 months, and I'm only just now climbing back onto my feet emotionally. <P>whatami, <P>You said: "You will never regret your decision to be a person."<P>I think this is probably one of the wisest things I have heard in a long time!!! I got over my fear when I began to realize that I was a whole valuable person with or without my H. For so long I had neglected, ignored, and suppressed myself, and when my H neglected, ignored and abused me, I felt I didn't deserve better. When my H told me that I was worthless...I believed him. <P>Knowing intellectually that my H was really the screwed up one was one thing - but in my deepest heart I believed that if I had just been a better person, he wouldn't have done the things that he did, and he would have loved me the way I needed.<P>I'm finally learning how to talk back to my fear and to my resentments and anger. I'm figuring out how to take care of me, and how to love myself.<P>So you are absolutely correct. I will never regret my decision to be a person. <P>Orchid, <BR>Any time you want to move to NJ to be my babysitter, you are welcome!!! Isn't that what little sisters do? <P>As for your advice about pampering - I'm afraid lavender and all those essential oils are a big time trigger. My H is a completely unsensitive boob. <long story from our failed recovery><P>I have found I can do little things, like start my day early with an hour of peace and quiet to do only what I want to do. This works great, because I usually end up passing out asleep at 8:30 while nursing my daughter to sleep after I've put my boys in bed.<P>As for my kids problems, they are a bit more complicated. My oldest son has regular appts with a therapist and a psychiatrist. He's on antidepressants. He got expelled from his Catholic school earlier this year, and is now in the public school. Fortunately, the treatment IS working, and he's starting to get alot better. <P>And then my younger son (7) is falling behind even farther in school. He's about a year behind his classmates, and the Catholic school just told me that they can not give him any more help than they have given him. I am transferring him to the public school next year so that hopefully they can put him in an inclusion class. The frustrating thing is that my little guy is incredibly smart. He's just got this learning disability that is causing both of us a lot of heartache. <P>So I have 2 different child study teams in 2 different schools working on my kids.<P>But my younger son does have his desk next to mine so he can do homework next to me! Actually I set up my basement with their toys, tv, nintendo, computer and the baby's swing etc so that I can be with them all the time while working.<P>But work is a relative term. It means I get 5 minutes here, 10 minutes there, before the phone rings, or a kid interrupts, or the baby cries....<P>I need to get the divorce thing done. No more worrying about if and when my H is going to pay the bills. No more juggling financial paperwork with him and driving an hour one way to meet him to discuss stuff. I am dreaming of a well scheduled bill payment plan, and no more contact with him!<P>I actually love this forum. It sits right here and doesn't interrupt and I don't miss anything - my support is right here when I need it. An inspiring post doesn't disappear if I put off reading messages for a day! Unlike the friends and family (lol, listen to me whine -waaah people love me!) who all call constantly to check on me. They aren't nearby, so its their way of showing support. But darn it, I can't get stuff done if I waste it by spending several hours a day yackin on the phone!!<P>And my H tells me how lucky I am to have the privilige of staying home. (I am, but just not the way he thinks it is) He actually thinks that I have it easy, and that I'm spoiled!! (He honestly thinks I should bow down and worship him for not expecting me to get a job outside the home -- but of course the D is changing that tune also)<P>Anyway, now that I have gotten my venting done EARLY this morning, I'm off to start my day! <P>You know, this whole crisis thing has turned me into a real coffee addict!<P>(((hugs))) BR<BR>

"It was around that time that my eyes began to be opened and I started to see that if I did not respect myself and require others to respect me, H was going to use me not only as a doormat but let OW use me that way as well. No way!!!!!"<BR> Orchid: That is a TRUISM that we here must understand and BELIEVE. God help us all. HE believes in us, we just have to belive in ourselves with Him.<P>BR, You are doing the very best for yourself and your children by just being with them. Does your H know how expensive child care, auto's, maintenance, insurance, clothing, meals, etc. are. Support payments would go off the scale. You"re doing him a favor by not going "out" to work.<P>My son was dyslexic. Smart, but with emotional problems. Like the other children advancing, teasing him and generally making him feel dumb. Had to put him in public school so he could have specific programs designed to his needs. Don't know where your at, but if you can keep him in parochial school, that would be great. My state (now) requires that these special children are entitled to the same therapy as public school children, and provides (free, "read it as your taxpayers dollars at work") that avenue. You might want to check it out.<P>Rejected: Hope you check back. Children are not easy, but they give you purpose. I went back to college (nights), not easy with the children. What an opportunity you have. Do what YOU want to do, be what you want to be. Chart a course, it may take a few turns but you will be on your way somewhere, not trying to retrace your steps. <P>Bless us all, we have wonderful things to look forward to.<P><BR> <BR>

Hi whatami!<P>You said:<BR>"My state (now) requires that these special children are entitled to the same therapy as public school children, and provides (free, "read it as your taxpayers dollars at work") that avenue. You might want to check it out."<P>Been down that avenue already NJ provides some public assistance to kids in parochial schools, but at my last meeting with the child study team, they told me that they were giving my son every benefit they could legally give him in the Catholic school, and that it wasn't enough. The only way to get him more help is by moving him to the public system.<P>And no, my H doesn't have a clue how much ANYTHING costs. He has very little reality based perspective on anything. He's already told me that he would be more than generous in the divorce settlement - he promised me a whole 3 or 4 years of alimony while I got a career started!!!! <P>And in my state, I have grounds to ask for permanent alimony, although because I am so young, that probably won't be granted. BUT, while I have been at home for 10 years taking care of everything but his career, he's worked his way up to a very nice VP position. I hardly think a judge is going to tell him that a couple years of alimony will even begin to compensate for what he's gained out of my staying home.<P>I'm sure I'll end up being disillusioned by the courts before this is all over, but my H is about to get a big slap over the head with reality!<P>((hugs)) BR

Hey, BR,<P>Those peaceful morning hours are great!<P>Sorry about the public school situation. Maybe you should include the cost of private counselling/tutoring in your child support payments. With three young children, H will be paying for a long time. BTW, you have a career, being a full time Mom. So he gets to have one career, and you are suppose to have two? Go for all you can ... at least alimony until the children are 18 and you can begin to devote your time and effort to another career. <P>Look at the post from GSD, "Ok, its finally happened." Was an upper for me, think it will be for you.<P>So go for it, Supermom, you are going to be great.<P>(((Hugs, back at you)))

Hi, and just a note to BR (although whatami, WHAT a story!)<P><B>BR</B>, I was a parent advocate in CA, and although laws differ statewide, the federal laws do not. Your child **is** covered under the ADA (American's with Disabilities Act) and is entitled to services...<P>Unfortunately, I left my books/materials with my ex-H, so I can't list specifics... but... do you have a law library nearby? GO!! <P>And if you've already done all this and I'm telling you something you already know, then forgive me. I just have a soft spot for kids with special needs.<P>Take care<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

Finally able to check back!<P>Thank you whatami to make that comment about not having children. I have struggled with that very issue. I wanted children so very badly and for some reason it just didn't happen. Now I am thinking it was a blessing that we didn't. However, part of me is jealous of those of you who have "children" to show for your union, and the ability to focus on them (however exhausting).<P>For me, my focus is on working (I even got a 2nd job, just to occupy more of my time), cleaning and rearranging my house (I think that it is germ free!), exercising (mabey some day someone will see me naked again!), reading, and spending time with nephews, nieces, and friends & family(I am so fortunate). I think if I exhaust myself I might sleep through the night---ya right, you know I haven't yet! I get by on 3hours of sleep a night and still have energy!!! What I really want is to expend this energy on a baby instead of another book!!<P>For now my brand new nephew Noah (which means comfort in Hebrew) is filling in!!!! <P>Yesterday I met with a financial/investment counselor to help me map and plan for my future. Sometimes I think that I am just going through the motions and I am really not in it (kind of an out of body thing).<P>We will all make it and come out okay, mabey even better,<BR>we can only hope. HOPE! you got to love it!<P>Petrie

You what this post is helping me to see? No matter what we have on our plates (kids, jobs, house stuff, family issues, money, etc.) this A. stuff affects us pretty much the same way. Like everybody gets the same flu germs. <P>Loss of sleep 4 hours or less per night<BR>Loss of appetite<BR>Weight loss<BR>Lower resistance - subject more illnesses<BR>anxiety attacks - recognized or not<BR>income adjustment - some more than others<BR>displacement - emotionally/physically or both<BR>depression<BR>frustration<BR>anguish<P>....... the list does go on. Regardless of our backgrounds there is a common thread. Disloyalty, unfaithfulness, lack of care and lack of love cause all of the above and then some. Inspite of it all most of us (I think all of us here) have managed to continue with our daily routines (with some adjustments because there are still only 24 hours in every day with or without daylight savings time). <P>Wow. I didn't know I had sooooo much time on my hands (being sarcastic here). Unfortunately, it will be a long time for most of us to get our lives back together. Never will it be the same. Like being in a bad accident. We will survive but we can not dwell on making it like before. No, but we can work on improving it. That is where this group is soo great. Supporting each other through thick and thin. <P>I have had a few friends and relatives ask if I was going to continue coming here. I said one day maybe I will not need this board like I do now. I have seen a few say good bye but I will always remember the kindess extended to me by those who were also in need. <P>That's what friends are for!!! <P>L.<BR>

Lack of sleep seems to intensify the rest of the list. Thought I would sleep better after a few months. Some nights I get 5 hours. Maybe I am doing better!<P>Rejected, your really doing great to be able to keep yourself so in touch with other people. My daughter (34) is getting married for the first time next month. First order of buisness with her H is going to be starting a family. No children on either side. I was 31 when I had my son. Many women make the choice to wait until the 30's before starting a family. You have lots of time.<P>Daughter met STBH at martial arts class. She says the classes are not only useful, great physical exercise and discipline, but also a great help in mental focusing and discipline. Wonderful group of people too. Might be worth trying.<P>Lately the most excersiced part of my body is my fingers. Until I met this board and all the wonderful, helpful people here, I was feeling quite isolated. MB has helped me open up myself to others, and shown to me that others really care and understand what I feel. (NO disrespectful judgements here!) If I can help others, it helps me. <P>Communication, affection, important ENs. Hope we all make it to the recovery threads, even if it's not about reconciling with the WS, it will be about reclaiming our lives.