It has been a while since I posted a new post....<P>Been divorced now since November, ex left in June, same old song and dance. No kids. Moved out of state to be with OW with whom he had an EA. After months of trying to convince me that he loved her more than me, that she was his mate, and that we had bad chemistry that could never be fixed, he is FINALLY admitting that he misses me, that he made bad decisions, that he acted on impulse, and he REALLY wants to be my friend. I guess he is tiring of the 18 year old he left with. He called me three times today, says the Caller ID God. He is not happy where he is and he sounded so lonely. Even though he is with her. He took almost total responsibility for the divorce and accepted his immaturity, impetuousness etc. I think he is having second thoughts. He even admitted that he should have tried and that he can hardly look at himself now.<P>How did this make me feel? Initally, a bit dizzy, but overall, a little bored. It is like the drama is over. I have avoided second guessing myself very successfully and feel confident in the way I handled things for the most part. The only thing I can say is that if I had fought off the divorce a few more months, he may have realized this then and there might have been hope. Now, it doesn't seem to matter. The place that he filled in my heart is starting to be filled with so much other stuff. It is kind of sad. It is not that I did not love him terribly and would have done anything, but so much respect for him is gone, and that can never be replaced with apologies. <P>I guess the only reason I am posting is to go on record as saying not to give up too easily. But also not to look back when it is finally over. I could wonder all day what if, but it won't get me anywhere. I knew my ex would wake up one day. I think they all do in their hearts, but they may never admit it. Yes, is small consolation to hear him say "I love you" now. But it makes me feel a little vidicated.

There is every possibility that the only way he COULD have ever come to this is via the path he took - every possibility that had you dragged your feet on the divorce, it would have made not one speck of difference. He most likely HAD to actually LOSE you - sever the ties - before he could get to where he has gotten...<P>Someone cited a statistic that 97% of all affairs end ... don't forget that about 5% or more of divorced couples remarry...<P>------------------<BR>terri<BR><B>Courage</B><P>Whatever course you decide upon,<BR>there is always someone to tell you<BR>that you are wrong.<P>There are always difficulties arising<BR>which tempt you to believe that your <BR>critics are right.<P>To map out a course of action <BR>and follow it to an end <BR>requires courage.<P><I>Ralph Waldo Emerson</I>

Interesting point. But that is such a shame. <BR>

gsd,<P>there are students/people that learn by DOING, versus students/people who can learn by lecture, and then do what they learned very well.<P>i would suspect that your X is a learn by doing type, and for teachers, especially, it may be difficult to watch if one teaches by lecture.<P>it sounds as though your X will actually live to be a better person through this if he is really willing to learn from it. but its up to him, and maybe he will eventually learn. its kind of like he is sitting down to take the final exam, and now he knows that he didn't study and prepare very well. <BR>there is nothing anyone can do to help him now, unless he wants to take a make up exam after lots of studying/counseling.<P>good luck,<BR>i think you will be able to find better,<BR>and just think of your old marriage as a practice<BR>one.<BR>

You know, I bet this is more common than any of us think. One of the things Jennifer counseled me on during my last session with her, was to wait & let this take course, and that the infatuation the BS has with the OP almost always fades. The problem is the pain and suffering it puts us through hardens our hearts and builds a wall around us.<P>It's been 8 months since my STBX left me and I think the desire I have to have my old family back is almost extinguished. It saddens me, because I'm almost positive she'll look back on this with regret someday.<P>I agree with Terri, I think they have to go all the way and destroy the relationship completely before they really see the light. And it is a shame, because it was all so unnecessary.<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

GSD... Your message is so encouraging to me. (Hope that doesn't sound bad) Think "kind of sad" is a lot better than the "extremely sad" state that I am in and am sure you were in when all this was happening.<P>My still H is saying exactly the same things to me that yours said to you. H will be spending this summer with OW "to find out" while I am suppose to stay here and take care of business. Doesn't want D (bad time to liquidate our assets). By what he indicates, in either case, our M can never be fixed and there is no use in trying. <P>If I can only get to the point where it doesn't matter. What a relief that would be. H would have to win me back.<P>Dr. Dobson, "Love must be tough" tells us that if and when our WS wants to come back, the BS MUST clearly define the conditions of return, such as counselling and following the rules of MB. <P>Can certainly understand why you would not choose to take him back. You've come a long, long way. Hope I can feel the same. <BR>Take care ...

I meant the word "sad" to mean pathetic as opposed to unhappy. I used to be miserable, but the sadness is fading quickly.<P>WIFTT: I guess you remembered that I am a teacher. Good analogy; I just wonder if I should give him a "retake exam." <P>Part of me wishes that I still felt a little bit of hope for us. I don't, so it is like his regret is wasted. I smile when I think how I felt 8 months ago...I would have done anything, but now I cannot. He will learn something from it, so that is good, but ultimately, when it would have made a difference, his effort wasn't there.

OK, here I come, the never-ending optimist!<P>GSD,<P>Are you sure that there are no feelings left for him, or could it possibly be that you "don't" want there to be any feelings left for him? If you really have no more love for him, then you are right - it is his loss. But if you are just burying your feelings because of the fear of getting hurt again, or of feeling vindicated, or of wanting to see him as sad as you once were, is that completely fair to yourself? What happens if you turn him away now and years down the road "you" grow to regret your actions?<P>Granted this is all based on the assumption that he "knows" he made a mistake and he wants to try again.<P>You know I feel myself feeling similar things about my W now - kind of blah, no spark, nothing. But if I concentrate on picturing her face and maybe a good time we shared, I feel those loving feelings right below the surface AND I feel the pain along with them. Our most basic instinct is to avoid anything that pains us, so for us to move on past our old spouses, it is only natural that we begin building up walls against them.<P>Think back to when he first left and you wanted to try - did you ever say (or think) that his feelings "can" change if he just tries? Of course he didn't try so you got divorced. But now is it possible that maybe you are doing a similar thing - that your feelings can change back to love if you just try, but instead you decide not to try?<P>Only you really know what is inside your heart. I have no idea what you or he really feels. I guess I just wanted to give you something to think about.<P>This is also kind of ironic - yesterday my mother called me at work and said that she was thinking about my W and me and how our divorce is going to be final in about 1 - 2 months. She called to tell me NOT to get stubborn. When I asked what she meant, she said "Mike you have been telling us for so long how much you love xxxxx and how you would do whatever it took to make your relationship work. Now that things are almost over, I have a strange feeling that she will be thinking a lot about her decisions and I just wanted to tell you to remember your love for her, IF she decides to try one more time." At first I was kind of mad that my mother would say that to me, but then I really thought about it and you know what, I could see myself doing just that.<P>This whole thing is just so confusing, isn't it.......<P>I pray you do what is right for you.<BR>God Bless,<P>Mike<P>------------------<BR>God always waits for the right time to do the right thing in the right way.

My X is going through a MLC right now. He has always been very impulsive and right now it's worse. He married OW#2 one month after our divorce was final only 7 months after seperation. He too, I think, has regrets but now he is stuck where he is at in his life and I've moved on. There is no way in hell I would ever take him back not after all he put me through. I'm happier than I have been in a long time and so are the kids. To me he made his bed now he can sleep in it!<P><BR>Jill

As Dr. Dobson also says in his book that we need to let go lovingly but also if the spouse wants to come back and asks for forgiveness, then we MUST do that because that is why you did all this to begin with. <P>Another book by Dr. Talley, I think , Irreconcillable Differences, says, to stay on the line of harmony because most spouses (waywards too) cycle back and forth. What you want to do is be hitting the line together. But if you stay on the line, your spouse will cycle back and that is the time to take a chance again.<P>HOpelessmom

I felt compelled to respond to this post since the topic is one which is very near and dear to my heart. <P>I have often wondered how would handle things if the day ever came that my ex called me and said that feels that she made a mistake in all of this and that she missed me. What would I do? How would I react? How would I respond? Would it set me back a step or two? Would I have the desire to try again? Could I ever trust her again? Would it be worth it to try again? Would we really be happy? All of these questions (and more) have swarmed around my brain and when it really comes down to it, I honestly could not answer the questions until they were presented before me. I used to think that I wanted the chance to make this decision, but why?<P>I have come a long way in the past 9 months and I am proud of myself for what I have accomplished. I still love my ex and a part of me always will, but I’m moving on. I have learned a lot of things about myself during this divorce, most importantly, I’ve learned that I need to be honest with myself. Looking back on my marriage objectively, I see many areas where I was not a happy person. For me to have a new, healthy and honest marriage with my ex, certain things would have to change for both of us. Unfortunately, I think I would ask too much of my ex and that wouldn’t be fair to her. She is a great person, but I want more out of life and no matter how much I care for her, I’m no longer sure that she can give me what I truly need. I deserve more.<P>For me personally, the only thing making this a hard decision is my pride. I didn’t want my divorce and I don’t believe it was the right thing to do, but my ex made up her mind and she went through with it. I have accepted the fact that my marriage may have failed, but that we did not fail as people. In my heart, I know that I can be happy without my ex and I am learning that there are people in this world with whom I can enjoy a more fulfilling life. <P>This may sound a bit comical since my divorce is already final, but my biggest question is this: IF my ex came back to my door wanting to give ‘us’ another chance and I said “no”, would I feel like I closed the door on this marriage? As it stands now, I have followed my vows and I didn’t walk out on my marriage. Would I feel like a hypocrite if I suddenly say, “you know what, maybe this whole thing was a blessing in disguise and I will be happier without her?” <P>With each passing day, I am able to distance myself a bit further from my ex. I still see her from time to time and I can honestly say that I don’t feel the same spark for her that I once did. That spark for me is heavily fueled by respect and I have lost a tremendous amount of that with her.<P>GSD, your story and mine have paralleled on many levels. In the back of my mind, I have often wondered how long it would take for your ex to “pull his head out” and realize what he has given up in you. You have always come across as very loving, supportive and dedicated to your ex, but you also deserve more. I’m sure he is getting to the point where he has realized that the grass is not always greener and maybe he’s just reaching for the good memories you and he once shared. This realization must be hard for him to deal with, but it’s by his own doing you know? And if I remember correctly, he has never been on his own? If that’s the case, then now he is faced with the possibility of being on his own, in a new state where he hardly knows anyone except for this OW. He’s sad, he’s lonely, he’s depressed and he’s lost. At some point, you would have to question “why” he was wanting to come back. Is it love, is it comfort, is it security or is just because he thinks he can?<P>If the decision is really placed in front of you, then you’ll have to follow your heart. Even if your head has had some influence over it in the past few months, the feelings you have in your heart should either guide you toward him or away from him. The decision will be yours, but it sounds to me like you have already made up your mind.<P>You’ve come a long way and you should be proud of yourself.<BR>

Jayhawk 93,<P>Well said....my thoughts exactly. Thanks for putting them into words so elegantly.<P>Aloha,<BR>Mrs.O<BR>

Ditto, Mrs. O<BR>Petrie <BR>

Jay-<BR>As usual, I could not have stated it as well as you. You summed up what I feel exactly. CAn you read my mind? <P>Sotired-<BR>You made some interesting points. First, yes, this is based on the assumption that he wants to possibly come back. You ask if I really do not feel anything for him or if I do not want to. In reality, a little of both. No, I do not want to try to feel something again for someone who hurt me so much. One who left and came back more than once with an armful of empty promises. One who told me that he did not want to divorce me and wanted counseling and one month later told me again that he did. A fickle little boy who can't figure out how to pay his bills or call his mother on her birthday. I gave him so many chances that I am all out. Because of my walls that I have put up in order to protect myself and heal, I have lost a lot of the feeling I had for him. Yes, if I concentrate really hard, I can dredge up lots of old feelings for him. And that can be a beautiful but painful thing. But what purpose can it serve? I don't want the kind of life that he can give me. I don't want to travel from state to state with no retirement savings and no kids or pets. I want a family, a career, friends, and stability. Not an artist who can't find himself or wipe his own [censored]. So no, I do not want to remember the love I felt for him because it makes things very painful and pathetic. I have to let go. It is not easy, but it is necessary. I cannot keep going back to a man who cannot make up his mind. Somewhere there has to be an end.<P><BR>I may get blasted from some people who believe in second chances after a divorce at all costs. I suppose we could all, even after five, ten years all find some sense of grief and love for our spouses if we really search for it. I just wonder if that is healthy. <p>[This message has been edited by gsd (edited April 07, 2001).]

I can agree with the above sentiment whole heartedly and I'm not even divorced yet. If my stbx came back and asked for forgivness and a second chance I'd be hard pressed to say yes at this point. At one time it was all I wanted but now I can look objectively at it all and say that I don't want a relationship were I will be compelled to look over my shoulder constantly. How horrible to be in a marriage where you always wonder when the next "episode" will happen. Once was enough.<BR> I was so willing to forgive and forget at the outset but that offer of forgivness and acceptance was very callously shunted aside. Would I really want to be with a man who only came back because he found out the grass was not so green elsewhere? I don't think so. Maybe I would/will feel differently if/when the time comes but for now I like being able to smile and get through a day without tears.

gsd,<P>I have been reading this thread and the things you have said about your XH are so much like what my stbxh has said and done. <P>I read what you have to say with great interest and feel similar. We all know about the fantasy that draws the WS away and causes all this mess. Don't we run the same risk in getting involved with X after D. Isn't that all a fantasy that we evoke during our pain...he will come back all teary and remorseful we take them back and "work" things out. In our fantasy they become the perfect spouse because of the lessons learned and we live happily ever after. Like Nudli I think the constant looking over ones shoulder would wear thin. I think I would much rather move on and find happiness else where. <P>Take Care.<BR>

Hopeless--<P>I must admit that there was a time that I played out that whole scenario in my head: him coming back all teary eyed and begging for forgiveness. Gloating that I was right. HA! That through my infinite wisdom and his pathetic experience, he las learned something that I knew all along. It can play mind games with you. Like the completion of a project or something. Granted, none of that has happened. But I know he is not happy. I know he misses me and he has serious regrets, maybe never to be acted on. But they are there. I always thought they would be a consolation for me..but they aren't. I feel sorry for him and do not know if I want to be his friend like he wants. I question his motives.

You are so right. STBXH is leaving because he is unhappy. I truely think that he is searching for happiness that can't be found. He truely believes in the Hollywood Romance, one that never fades or becomes cold. He figures that he may have met her and needs to go see. I am angry with him for leaving us but, as you, I feel sadness in knowing that he will probably never find the happiness he seeks. I feel he is throwing away a marriage that needed help but was workable all to find himself in the same place with someone else. A lesson learned too late for us.<P>

I suspect that my STBx is not far enough along in this process to see what she's given up, or the hurt that she's caused. She's a very determined woman, so maybe she never will. I suspect that would probably be best for me, but I still think my son secretly harbours hope that she'll change her mind. If she ever did & I refused, I sometimes wonder how that would make him feel.<P>If for some reason she ever did want to try, I don't know what I'd do. I certainly would never want to punish her or hang the affair and abandonment over her, but it would be a very difficult situation indeed. My family despises her, and I feel her family isn't real thrilled over her decision either. That fog bank she's in must be a monster...<P>I suppose time will tell, but I've gone from hoping she'd turn around, to wishing this were over.<P>------------------<BR>nick<P>it's only time that heals the pain <BR>and makes the sun come out again

GSD: Thanks for posting this message.<P>I have been divorced almost a year now and still wonder what I would do if my x ever wanted back. Yesterday, my D had a birthday party where we both attended and I talked to him quite a bit and caught him just looking at me a few times. I started wondering if he was having second thoughts and what I would do if he was. <P>What Jayhawk and Mike wrote really got me thinking about what I would do if that happened. I think Hopeless really brought me back down to earth. I still hold on to the fantasy that if he asked me back, everything would just work out with counseling, lessons learned, etc. But, I realize that is just a fantasy. I have always lived in a fantasy world. I wanted the house, white picket fence, marriage that lasted a lifetime, etc. What I ended up with was a divorce. Now, I hold on to the fantasy of a possible remarriage someday and then I could have my dream back although a little tainted. I need to stop living in a fantasy world. Deep down, I really think it would never work out if he asked me back, but I still do not know what I would do if he ever does.