Hello to all, <P>I'm a first time poster in this area. I have been down in the Plan A/B forum for a short while, but now I'm here.<P>My wife and I had another talk tonight about us, I was very hopeful that a decision we made last week to divorce would be percieved as a poor choice on both sides. Well, it wasn't. She had an A that I found out about 10 weeks ago. I have been very motivated to work on the marriage, but of course she has bee fence sitting. I joined the site way to late to get the tips on how to brign about a change in her and to make her want to save the marriage. She told me tonight that she has seen some very disturbing sides of me in the last few weeks that she never wants to see again. Well, tht doesn't surprise me to much considering that I have had my teeth kicked in at every turn. And personally, I've seen some side of her that I wish I had never seen too. <P>We have small children, ages 6 and 4. I'm very afraid that they are going to suffer for her poor choices in life. I know that I'm very responsible for issues that lead up to the A, but none of them was grounds for what I got. All she keeps saying in her defence is "I wanted to be happy." Of course we all know to well that there are other things in life that can make us happy tht don't have the same moral and familia implications. Anyhow, I'm considering seeking full custody based on the fact that, I have taken care of my children every day. I work at night, so she has them for about 4 hours each evening. I sacrificed my career to take care of them, I was up at night to take care of them. She has made some very obvious poor choices that reflect poorly on her charecter. She has baited me to "come over and and hit her so she can call the police on me and have me arested." Her words there. I have never abused her in any way. No drug usage, alcohol issues and no police intervention of any sort, ever. <P>I want my children to have a mother, but sometimes I look at this woman and don't see her as a good parent. The choice to put her selfish ego above the childrens needs are to much for me to handle. We don't have a lot of money, so the house will most likely be sold off to pay our debt and give us some money to start of with. I feel like the choice she has made reflect very poorly on her judgement and reasoning. She knew that it would end in disaster, yet the A went on full steam a head. Now they not only have to grow up in a broken home, but not even a home at all by what standards we are used to. I'm very sad for them, as well as her and I.<P>Is there a way to not impact the kids as much, but still take the right course of action in my eyes? She wants to keep this clean because she doesn't want everyone to know she did something wrong. Fair enough, then why not just let me have the full custody and not make it a battle? I know that I'm having a very hard time finding the right words to say to my children. I know telling them that Mommy doesn't love Daddy any more, but Daddy loves Mommy with all his heart is wrong. So is telling them that Mommy fell in love with someone else. I won't lie to my children, but she has asked me to do that to save face. She is worried to death that they will end up hating her. Too bad she didn't worry about that last year when the A was in full swing. <P>I know that many of you have gone though this with small children, what is your advice for someone just getting started.<P>Thanks.<P>40

It just plain sucks, doesn't it? ;-)<P>I'm in the same boat as you (have a WS STBX wife). I have a daughter that is 4. I'm getting primary custody of our daughter. It's joint custody, but my daughter's residence is with me. If all goes according to plan, on April 16th it will be done.<P>My mother ran off with another man who became my step-father. The "love" disappeared after the first year and it was a dead marriage from there on out. It ended umpteen years later after my brother and I moved out. My brother and I were moved 400 miles from our dad. I NEVER learned what a family was. Sad, but true. Lesson... Don't let the crazy b**** get your kids.<P>I strongly believe it is in the best interest of your kids for you to be at a minimum the "primary custodian". I don't think that's a legal term, but the kids residence needs to be with you. Your spouse has turned into her evil twin, right? She WAS a wonderful person in order for you to marry her, but now, she has gone to the darkside. She will keep kicking you if she gets custody. Get custody so that you can keep things fair. That is in the best interest of your kids.<P>In your mind, remember that she is not the wonderful person you married. She is now her evil twin, and he (OM) can have her. It will serve him right for messing with a married woman. It will serve her right for committing adultery. Think for a minute... Can a loving, lasting relationship be built on lies, adultery, deceit, etc.? Statistically, it is extremely rare. Right now, you are supporting her Fantasyland. Plan B her at a minimum.<P>I'm not going to tell you to dive into a divorce, but it is in your best interest to move as quickly as possible if you see no way of saving your marriage. Act now while she is feeling a ton of guilt. By-the-way, YOU can't save your marriage. Only by her giving up the OM will your marriage possibly last. As long as she is in Fantasyland (in the fog as we say around here), forget it. It is TOTALLY beyond your control. Work on yourself. Be happy. Have fun with your kids. Be NICE to your wife (STBX?) and indifferent when she tries to get a rise out of you just to blame you. It will drive her crazy. The only way to win the game is to stop playing it. That's right, your actions (probably negative or you trying to hold on to her) will make things worse. Let her go and be nice to her. She will no longer be able to justify her adultery. Maybe the fog will lift in time.<P>The affair is all about her, not you. She will try to make you think that you are the problem. Don't give in to her line of bull. If you were truly the problem, she should have just divorced you, straight up. Lemme guess, she only started to talk about your endless "flaws" once she got involved with the OM.<P>This experience was paid for with a lot of pain. I'm all pained out now. Time to be happy.<P>Kevin<P>

Dear 40, <P>My heart goes out to all who have such young ones. I to have a 6 year old. My son has been a supporter and I in turn have been there for him. There are many opinions on what or how to tell you children to even if you should even tell them anything. <P>Children are smart, they don't want to be treated as if they are not around. They are also very observant. The father in the previous post has a lot of good advice. There is even some information from him about different stages of grieving for both yourself and your children. If you get a chance, look up that post under the title 5 stages of grieving. I started that post but others have given valuable info. <P>In my case my 6 year old has made some eye opening observations. He eventually wrote a letter to his dad with 2 questions and 2 statements. He is very direct with his thoughts and I encourage him to express himself. My son does talk to me but does not talk as freely with his dad. <P>While we don't try to carry our conversations in front of him, he has made the following comments:<P>1. Mom, if dad says he is a bad husband and bad father, then why would he want to get married again and be a bad husband again? I think dad has been a good father for 6 years, why did he get bad?<P>2. I am too embarressed to talk to my dad about this. Dad really should know that it is wrong for a dad to leave his family. Why doesn't he?<P>3. If my dad does not want to come home and I really wish he would, can we get a new dad?<P>4. Letter to father: Dad, Why do you want a divorce? Why don't you want to live with us? I want you to live with us. I miss you.<P>5. Whoever gets a divorce, I will be very mad at them. <P> I asked if dad get a divorce, will you be mad at him? <BR> Son's answer: Yes, very mad and I will not talk to his<BR> girlfriend.<P> I asked if mom get a divorce, will you be mad at me?<BR> Son's answer: A little upset, but I will understand. <P><BR>Note: You have 2 to deal with. They will talk among themselves and possibly with other friends and acquaintances. Let others who are close to your children know (teachers, baby sitters, relatives, friends) know that your child may have behavorial problems or talk about certain things and how they can help. Some schools have programs available to help children cope with these types of stresses. <P>For yourself, remember that your children need you and they know who the parent is that is trying. Let them know how much they have helped you. Even a simple hug and I love you daddy is good for our souls. <P>Keep posting here. There is a lot of experience that can help you. I am impressed at the way the fathers on this site are working so hard to keep their families together. They can also be of assitance to you. I personally benefit everyday by those here at this site. <P>Take Care and don't despair,<BR>L.<P>

Hi 40 lbs,<P>Only you can decide if divorce is your only option right now. Take your time deciding...what's the rush? You have custody of the children now...they are safe and in a loving environment. No immediate danger to anyone, right?<P>Take a deep breath, and do this one day at a time. Don't let your fear of the future rule what you are doing in the present.<P>I would strongly encourage you to give the Harleys a call, and set up a counseling appointment. Some people think that telephone counseling is a little weird, but it definitely worked for me. Both my H and I met with Steve Harley for a number of sessions, and even though my marriage has ended up in divorce court, it wasn't from lack of great advice from Steve. After the work I did with Steve, I was able to take a step back and honestly understand why my marriage had no hope (due to untreated alcoholism, and multiple affairs). I have alot of peace over my decision now, but it took me a long time to get here.<P>As for your children, yes they are going to suffer. They are suffering now are they not? <P>I don't know about you, but hell would freeze over before I'd decide to give custody to my H. He made the choices that he made, and the consequence is that he will not be in his children's lives everyday. It would be better for the kids to be with him every day, if he was healthy, but the decisions and the choices he has made make that option impossible.<P>Personally, I don't really buy the line that "Just because s/he had an affair doesn't mean s/he is a bad parent."<P>Huh? Having an affair isn't just cheating on your spouse. It means putting at risk, and possibly destroying your children's home environment and security. The impact is far greater on your children than on the spouse that got cheated on. My opinion is that if a spouse can make a choice like that, they can make other equally destructive choices. Unfortunately the court system doesn't see it that way.<P>The good thing is, the court is going to do what they percieve is in the best interest of the children. And since you have had the children with you, the court will see that as a point in your favor, and be hesitant to disrupt their lives further. <P>But then again, there IS a bias toward moms. <P>But if you don't fight your wife on this issue, you stand to lose alot. If she doesn't want her secret to get out, then she can always choose to walk away and give you custody. It's certainly not your responsiblity to protect her. <P>I wish you luck.<P>--BR<BR>

Thank you all for your posts. I feel horrible tht things have progressed this far and this fast. I'm trying to bide my time, but it is very hard and confusing for me to come home and want to be a family with the evil twin. I still sleep in the same bed, still want to kiss and hug her, even take care of her if she will let me. It is very confusing for the whole family.<P>The OM lives over 1000 miles away. He has no intentions of leaving his family out there, so my W is soon to lose her lover, her husband and her family. Not to mention all of the ugly money matters, selling of the house and deviding up the possesions. It is going to be tuff on all of us. Luckily, she has some good friends that I know will help her threw this, and I have a lot of family support her in town. She has none in town, and the closest is 230 miles away and they are getting very old and in not great health, her parents.<P>I will check back later, and give some more thoughts on my situation and the feedback provided. I need to take teh family to an Easter Egg hunt this morning at work. Everyone around us still thinks we have teh perfect marriage and arrangement for teh kids. Little do they know the story.<P>Thanks, everyone. <P>40

Whoa...<P>I need to amend some of what I told you.<P>I had no idea that you were still living together. I didn't know the OM is married and lives so far away.<P>Plan A<BR>Plan A<BR>Plan A<P>And remember, It is NOT your fault that she is having an affair. She CHOSE to have the affair. The affair has NOTHING to do with you. You aren't in it, right?<P>It is not too late. Avoid negative comments toward her at all costs. She will try to bait you into making them so that she can justify her affair. Get counseling. Try the Harley's. The only way that you two can reconnect is for her to disconnect from the OM and right now he has a strong hold on her.<P>Remember what I tell you. Be happy. Be a great dad. Don't hold on to her, that will only make her get away from you. Stand up and be the man you are. Tell her you love her, but you can't go along with what she is doing. You are not the defective spouse, she is right now. Keep hanging in there the evil spell on her might be broken. <P>Kevin

Thanks Kevin.<P>Yes, I would like to do Plan A for the rest of the summer, but everytime we talk it gets ugly. Not talking in 14 years together is part of the reason we are in this mess right now, so I'm not sure that I can take that route either. Both of us are in counseling, but seperately. She will not commit and has basically said that are choice to D is the right choice. So, joint counseling is out.<P>The kids are safe, and she loves them dearly. But I think that she has demonstrated a willingness to make poor choices and not worry about the outcome. I really like the fact that I had to have an HIV test since she was so worried about her health and mine. <P>As I stated earlier, she had to have known that this would end in disaster. She knows the type of person that I am, and yet she went on with the A full speed a head. <P>I'm not having a problem being a good guy, and there has never been a problem with me being a great father. I take the kids to the library, field trips at school, I even voluteer in the kids classes. Plus I do all the cleaning at home, laundry, and the other Dad stuff. I dress them, feed them twice a day. Make sure they are clean and thier rooms are well kept. I am a MR. Mom is every sence of the word. I would sure like to keep things together for them, but I'm not getting any help and now the D is on the table. I won't file, but I don't doubt for a minute she will. <P>I keep doing the wrong things at every juncture. I know this, but i can't help it. Maybe I'm just to tired, or maybe I'm just not smart enough, or maybe I really just can't help it. I want to do the right thing, and for about 7 weeks I did. But I have all but given up on this girl. I don't see the same person I saw 5 months ago. I have a new room mate, she looks like my wife, smells like my wife, talks like my wife but she down't act like my wife. She doesn't love me, but she still cares about me. Confusing to say the least.<P>I'll see what this next week will hold. I have the cards, and she knows it. I'll only play them if I have to.<P>Thanks Guys!<P>40<P>

Dear 40,<P>10 weeks seems like a long time, doesn't it? To me it was like an eternity. D/d for me was end of Nov 2000. 4+ months later, it seems like years ago. I felt I have aged 10 years maybe 20. Once a certain person, now I find myself rearranging my life to accmodate this stranger. The hard part is that I also have to rearrange my child's life and this is not as easy. <P>Have you taken any of questionnaire tests? There is one on emotional needs of yourself and your spouse. Very revealing items. <P>You know 10 weeks is a long time but for the recovery period it is relatively short. Many here have been here for months and years. <P>The one sure thing in an A is the ever changing world. One momment up and the next down. Never a dull momment that's for sure. <P>So, what are we BS's to do? During this time, work on building your support group (friends, family, co-workers, neighbors, your children, counselor, this board, etc.) Build yourself up. Keep active with your children. Read up and be prepared. Make sure you protect your self and your legal assets. <P>Let the WS run out of steam. Let them vent and get frustrated. Sometimes it seems like they diliberately want to hurt you and even your children. Depending how they chose to hurt you, it often backfires (especially if you have a strong support group). See one can fool some of the people some of the time but not all of the people all of the time. Use that to your advantage. <P>This is hard advice. I fought it at the beginning. Could just kick myself now. Because all that did was delay the healing process. Stretched it out to 4+ months when it should have been in less than 2 months.<P><BR>Hang in there '40'.<P>L.<BR>L.

I am sorry for your pain on so many levels that this will be difficult. I opened your letter because I lost 35 pounds, & I figured hey someone else on my diet. I guess your sleeping is similar, I am now up to 3-4 hours a night from none or 1 or 2. I will give you a quick answer for now yes you can ease your pain & your childrens. You must ease your pain in order to even consider a chance to help your chidren through this terrible time. You in simple terms have given your wife your power by not being able to forgive. You do not have to forgive your wife for her sake, you have to forgive her for your own. Why should both of you have to live with her betrayal - give it back to her where it belongs & get it out of your inner soul. It is as we speak closing off your light, your good side, your good thoughts, your good feelings, your very soul. It is not light it is a all consuming fire eating everything good including your children - you can stop it but real forgiveness will take real time. Don't deny yourself that time or let yourself believe that one letter, one word, or just one thought will end your pain - if that were so than it could come back just as easy when you least expect it. If you love your children you can not deny their mother, she is a part of why you love them today. Let love for your children be the water of life for you right now. <P>My Father in Law recently gave me some very good advice: He was not concerned with me even though he does not blame me for mine & his daughters current situation. But he was also not as concerned with his daughter for as he said we are adults & responsible for our tragedy - his grandson however is not responsible - he is the only innocent & deserves none of the pain that we decide to cause each other. Youer children also deserve more & you have that power to give them so much more than you know at this space in time. <P>God Bless & may He keep you & your children tonight & every night close...........<P> <P>------------------<BR>StarCrossed

Starcrossed.<P>Is your FIL my mom. My mom said the exact thing to me and to my WS. WS did not like what he heard, that what he was doing was not putting the interest of kids first over HIS needs.<P>I am in the moving on mode, Plan separation. I can't trust my H to do the right thing, to continue providing for us so I will need the courts help. My H has run away from his repsonsibilities, in my eyes, and I can't let his awful decisions impact the kids anymore than it has to, and if that means giving up my fighting for my marriage, I guess that is what I must do now. The fog is so thick with H. I still love him, not this evil twin. I actually have no respect for him. He is everything that he has always hated but he feels it is making him happy so SH8t on everyone else.<P>It saddens me greatly, but I feel I have no other choice at this moment.<P>Hopelessmom