Well, last night it finally happened. He moved out. The night before I posted about him admitting that he could not talk to me because of his mistrust. Then said he worries about me calling the OW husband. I responded with why then are you in this bed with me? He became angry, hauled out the boxex from our closet which he had already packed and spent the night on the couch. <P>Then yesterday he calls me after school and asks if I want him to come home. I replied that I was tired of his direspect. Anyway, he showed up regardless. I was livid. I told him that he can take away this marraige but not my sense of self worth. That he does not have the ordained right to walk around this house as he has arrogant and angry all the time. Treating however he sees fit.<P>He said he was sorry, and that he would be nicer for the next ten weeks until I leave ( moving back home to TX)<BR>I told him that I have heard this before, sans the apology, that he would be nicer. Actions are what count. And that you still dont have a clue, as you walking in telling the kids that you will have to sleep in your car for 10 weeks.<P>I told him to go wherever it was he planned on going to when I would cry in the beginning and he would threaten me to straighten up, not be emotional or he would make things very hard by leaving right away. Sorry for the convolouted sentence.<P>What to do???<P>I have no support system here, and I cant work with the kids alone. Yes I should have thought of that, but I am so weary of his anger, followed by him being affectionate every other night.<P>Now, of all things, his mom who has been my rock through this is mad at me. She had offered us a house in TX to have. She feels bad, said what he is doing is not the christian thing to do. Strong woman of faith. I recomitted my self to Christ a few months ago while I was in the deepest trenches, but now have slipped back, stopped praying and reading my bible. <P>I cannot even go lay down and cry, as the kids are all here home on spring break.<P>

LAIG,<P>Do you feel you are painting yourself in a corner? It seems that you are to me. You keep issuing ultimatums, that do you more harm than good. You keep pushing him away just when you should be showing him some understanding.<P>Please read Plan A again. I recall that you were not the W of the year for quite awhile. You had an affair, etc. Now I ask you, how did your H treat you? Was it how you are treating him?<P>You seemed to control him in the past by not being interested in him or the marriage. Often threatening divorce, and it lead to your affair and now his. You are still doing the same thing. You threaten that he MUST do this or you will leave. You are leaving, just as you did before. You threaten and tell him to move out, he is now moving out.<P>You threaten, you control, and then you wonder why he hasn't changed his mind. He hasn't changed his mind because you haven't changed. You say you love him and I believe you. However, you actions are the same, so how can he believe you?<P>LAIG, please knock off the threats. Step back and consider how you would like to live. Once you have focused on how you would like to be and how you would like to live, THEN DO IT. Live your life with grace LAIG, not anger, disinterest, and pain. You control all of this, but you must understand you can not control your H.<P>He is moving away because your actions are essentially the same as they were when you had your affair. He has profited little by standing with you, helping with your education, or anything else. If you want him back, it seems to me you need to evaluate your approach to him. So please read Plan A again and then decide to live your life differently. I think it will help.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Yes JL, it feels as if I am painting myself in a corner.<BR>One that I dont watnt o be in.<P>So what now? Does plan A include allowing him to be a complete A** and for me to just take it?<P>I know that sounds arrogant, but that is the question of the day with plan A. See, we were still living together. I could not just walk away when he chose to be cruel. <P>What now? Should I go to him, apologize, ask him to come back? I told him last night that this was just too hard.. I cannot cont to live with him like this. If he wants live with us, I would want him to give our marraige a try.<P>He chose to leave.

Dear LAIG,<P>Hey hop over to my boat, I think we are paddling in the same direction. Take a look at the response from BrambleRose in my post right below yours about the eggo waffle (probably should be ego waffle). Anyway, I am having a bad bad day. You do have support, here us and your MIL. <P>I want to adopt BrambleRose as my mom but I think I may be too old. Anyway, I understand how you feel. You are not alone in this trip. Keep posting here. I keep hoping back and forth in my feelings but also feel that I need to start making plans moving on with my life. <P>There is a man out there that is losing his family and he is crying but not willing to do what it takes to win his family back. What to do? You know, you just want to pound some common sense into them but you can't. <P>So life goes on. <P>Take care,<BR>L.<BR>

"So life goes on?"<P>What an empty life to lead. It has never been so abrubt for me, as he was still living here. In the past month he has even told me that he reconsiders every day. <P>I told him it is too bad that he gives up on me now. After everything he has been through. Loving me when I was unlovable. He said that that even though I am very lovable now (plan a), he must do this. That he is not a fool, to come back only to be hurt again. Once he has said it (divorce), he wont go back on his word.<P>Yet, couple all that hope with his cruelty and lies. How does plan A fit in there? I hit my limit and hit it hard.<P>But oh how I love him and miss him. Ive never even lived alone..married at 16. Stubborness has become his nick-name.He has said that he is a man, not a p***y that will change his mind like the wind.<P>I think I really blew it by telling him to leave. JL, I need to go to TX. I know you dont agree, but I must accept the fact that he doesnt want me, and I certainly dont want to be alone up here w/o support. Besides, his mother is there and hiss entire family. That is his home too.<P>Now I am left to getting this whole house ready to be moved alone with 3 kids, and selling it too. I am sure he would only gloat if I asked him to come back. <P>My pride is not an issue here however. It is nonexistent at this point.<P> I could go to his school today and talk to him. what to say I dont know. As hard as this is I am tempted to let him hit bottom to see how much he misses us. But oh the agony in the meantime.<P>HELP!!

Well there simply aren't any answers. I just called him, said he couldn't talk, on his way to class..maybe later.<P>The kids went to the beach with the neihbor. There simply is no reason to go on like this. I just cant take it.

Dear LAIG,<P>Let go of your H. Stop manipulating him and stop trying to control him. And most of all, stop lying to your H.<P><B>Say what you mean, mean what you say, and DON'T say it mean!</B><P>You need to get really honest with him and yourself about what you want. If you are going to TX to force a response from your H, then I am with JL, you shouldn't be going.<P>If you don't really want your H to move out, I think you need to tell him that.<P>If you are worried about his 'gloating' - then your pride is still very much in the way.<P>Humility = honesty.<P>And you may be missing the point of Plan A. Plan A is not about trying to force your spouse, or manipulate your spouse. Plan A is about taking responsiblity for your part in your marriage. It's also about taking care of YOU.<P>If you can't imagine living without your H, it's time to learn to do so. I'm not saying it's time to dump your H, I'm saying it's time to learn about you, and work on you, and do things for you. I'm not talking about selfishness, I'm talking about learning freedom from emotional dependence. If you need your H to be a whole person, you won't be able to let go. LET GO of him now, before it's too late and he keeps running.<P>I'm sorry if this comes across as harsh, I really don't mean it to be that way.<P>I know you are hurting...but you are doing much of it to yourself!!!<P>((hugs)) BR

Learning, you won't like what I have to say -- but it is from the "other side" -- the side with hindsight --<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Learning as I go:<BR><B><BR>Then yesterday he calls me after school and asks if I want him to come home. I replied that I was tired of his direspect.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>Here's how it should have gone: <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>Then yesterday he calls me after school and asks if I want him to come home. I replied, "Yes" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B> <P>You still want your marriage, right??<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I told him that he can take away this marraige but not my sense of self worth.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>Although you're right, of course -- YOU are taking away the marriage too. You BOTH strayed, right? Same with in my PAST-marriage.<P>Do you think you'll feel better after the divorce? Let me tell you how I've felt. My ex and I seperated three times in a year and the final one took. The whole time I posted here, and he did a few times. It was obvious we loved each other but couldn't seem to do it (love each other) at the same time. So, while he's gone, he hangs out with his final OW (his fifth) and I file for divorce. <P>To make my life more difficult, I meet and fall in love with someone else. I waffle about my marriage, which was spinning toward the final divorce date. I hurt myself emotionally, my kids emotionally, my stbx emotionally, and the new man emotionally -- back and forth,l back and forth. That's because I still wondered if I'd done all I could to save my 20-year marriage.<P>Now he's my ex-H. The divorce has been final for seven months. You'd think it would just end then. I have this new man, and my marriage is officially over.<P>Nope.<P>I put myself and the new man through hell for a bit longer.<P>Finally -- NOW -- I am ready to go forward. The new man is wonderful, thank god. But...Is the grass greener? Nope, just different. I will marry him, and we already use the concepts found here because I NEVER EVER WANT TO GO THROUGH THIS AGAIN.<P>Think about it all, please. If you love your H, don't push him away in the mistaken belief that all will be well if you do. You will suffer more than you do now. <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck<p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited April 11, 2001).]

By the way, I have a rip-roaring headache, so I don't know if what I wrote makes sense... but I HATE to see someone who wants to save their marriage do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what needs to be done.<P>I did that too, at times. <P>I regret that.<P>Regrets suck.<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

Whats the point? I could argue that by going to TX I am moving on and accepting his choices. I need support, I dont get it here. I cant even work on the holidays because school is more important. Screw the dam house. I cant make an 1100 mort payment and a 500 car payment alone. WE bought these toghether thinking soon two incomes. He knew all along.<P>YOu guys have been really hard on me. Most times I do need a kick in the pants. So tell me? No one has ever reached their end here? Tired of the humiliation? The hurt, the rejection? Funny, he hates it when I tell him he has rejected me.<P>My past aside, I want my marraige and do love him. I became drunk one night 3 years ago and responded to his friends advances on me. He woke up from the couch and saw it all. WHat was his reaction? After I went t osleep the next night he brought his friend into our bed. Told me he was okay with it. <P>Where was my husband? He had a part in this too guys. So please get off my back about this. <P>I am not lying to him either. I dont want him to move out but I am NOT a doormat. Or a whore.<P>Thanks for all of your wonderful support here.

Oh Learning -- I am trying to tell you --<P>I HAVE BEEN WHERE YOU ARE!<P>If you have decided that moving on is the answer, then that's what you will do.<P>I went out on the line to tell you my deepest feelings as well, you know.<P>You pretty much poo-poo'd my pain too.<P>Do you see a pattern here?<P>I have been trying to HELP you, not hurt you.<P>I am sorry for your pain.<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

Dear LAIG,<P>Live will go on with or with us. That is a fact. How we choose to be a part of it is up to us. Right now you do not hold that decision making capacity with your H neither do I with mine. I don't think there is anyone more stubborn in this world than me but there are a lot of close runners up. <P>It took me a while to let go. H moved out 3 1/2 months ago. It is part of the healing process. If your H is not seeing reality. Your telling him will not open his eyes. His eyes will be opened when the fog lifts and he sees the mess he made. When that will be is unknown. Do not browbeat yourself or you children by trying to make it happen before your H is ready to see it for himself. <P>That my dear is the hard part of love. That is the part that hurts and will continue hurting for a while. The 24 hours in today will seem endless, your second will be like minutes and the minutes like hours. But in reality it is all the same time. Yesterday, today and tomorrow. Soon tomorrow will be here and you will be plugging along with your plans. Eventually H will catch up. It may be sooner than you think or a bit longer. Until then you have a lot to be doing with you and your children. Concentrate on that. Be good at what you are doing at. <P>I have to also do as I am saying to you. Right now I am very upset and a few good people here are trying their hardest to pound some sense into my head. I even got a little upset at what one of them wrote until I read it about 4 times and then realized in my anger I kept reading the words wrong. STUPID me. See we all can learn. <P>Life is not empty as it seems, just a bit painful now. A point of comfort is that while in the fog their thinking often changes. Good. That means that you should not place full value in everything they say, good or bad. <P>I am having to learn to wait for the true words that match the actions. Let's wait this out together and see where our H's go. Ok?<P>L.<BR>

Thank you Orchid for understanding and not slamming me.<BR>I feel so alone. What you wrote brought tears to my eyes that were dry for all of 5 seconds. I feel like giving up.<BR>I look outside and see a beautiful day, glorious sun in the rainy state but have no interest in it.<P>Depression? Yes. I want so badly to move through this. Get it over with if you will, with or woithout him. This is pure misery. But what is harder, having him here being cold and callous with the occ tenderness or being alone?<BR>I dont know. I just got to the ppoint where I said enough is enough. Yes I love him, would do anything to be with him. Does that give him the inherent right to s*** on me all the time? NO.<P>Yes, I know there was great wisdom written in the prior responses, wisdom coupled with critsism. Right now I dont need it, the criticism that is. Manipulate him? No, I do have a right to be treated fairly, to have some dignity. His actions and comments are not only cruel but unjust to the kids.And me. I drew a line in the sand. So I got flamed for it here. I am not intending to manipulate him by moving home or telling him I've had enough.<P>Oh well. Thats all I have to say. Cant seem to find the most eloquent words to express my despair, but I am sure everyone understands, that is why we are posting here.

Dear LAIG,<P>How are you today? It's me! Please reply if you can. <P>L.

Dear Learning,<P>I had to really think about how I was going to respond to you on this thread, I'm sorry that I wasn't around yesterday to followup.<P>I've read over this thread, and my own prior response, and I just don't see anyone here flaming, or slamming you.<P>I've been where you are at. I've been in so much pain and depression, that the last thing I wanted to hear was that I was the cause of any of it. I have a very very dear person in my life that I trust implicitly. And I used to call her and vent - and she'd usually give me a good kick in the pants. Never once was anything she ever said intended to intentionally harm or hurt. I hated her advice, and got furious sometimes when she insisted that I was responsible for certain things in my life, but because I trusted that she had my best interests at heart - I never once thought she was personally attacking me.<P>Now coming out of the tunnel - I can look back and see that she was ALWAYS right. My refrain to her these days is: You were right!<P>No one on this thread was trying to hurt you. If we had called you names or insulted you, or told you that you should give up because you were worthless or stupid ... THATS flaming.<P>What you got was responses from people who CARE, who have BEEN THERE, and perhaps have a bit more experience, and who can share what worked and what didn't.<P>Many of us have tried the things that you relate to us that you are doing - and we found out that they don't work.<P>Would you rather that we sat around feeling sorry for you, but had no concrete advice on what to do?<P>We are all trying to help.<P>One of the good things about MB is that you can get honest, unbiased feedback - no fuzzy warm feel-good stuff that has no substance - but rather hard, honest, REAL feedback on the stuff in our marriages and lives.<P>It's obvious you love your husband and want him back. But your actions that you relate to us are making your situation worse. No one here can force you to take responsiblity for your own part in this mess - but if you did, you would suddenly find yourself on firmer ground.<P>Yes, your H has done some pretty awful things. But that doesn't make what you are doing a viable means to rebuild your marriage. <P>That's why I said what I did. Stop the dishonesty and the manipulation. I didn't say that as a personal attack. I said it because I've been there, done that, and see clearly what you are doing - because I *know*.<P>Let me share something that I learned early on as my H's affair started.<P>My H turned cold, nasty and horrible when his affair started. I was desperate for affection, desperate to get his attention, and looking frantically for anything that would get him to see that we had problems, that I was hurting, and to get him to do something different.<P>One of the things I did to "wake him up" was to demand that he sleep in the other room.<P>Now, if I had been honest, I never should have made that demand. <P>What I wanted was for him to hold me, make love to me, and to feel safe with him again.<P>So in my own warped twisted brain, I tried to manipulate him. I kicked him out of my bed, expecting his response to be one of indignation, and sudden awareness that thing were wrong, and then a desire on his part to find out and fix our problems. <P>I figured I could kick him out of my bed, and he'd fight back and insist on engaging in a conflict that would result in his making love to me. Sick huh?<P>Guess what happened??<P>I told him to sleep elsewhere....and he did.<P>I did serious damage to my relationship with him. I didn't communicate honestly, I didn't tell him what I needed. I tried to bully him into doing what I wanted. He told me later how badly my demands hurt him, how completely abandoned he felt. <P>But in my self-righteous anger, all I saw was that he was hurting me by being a bad guy, and damn it, I had my self-respect!!! I didn't see how badly I hurt him, how badly he needed ME to reach out to him. Had I known about MB and Plan A back then ... thats what I should have been doing.<P>But instead I inflicted more damage on a marriage that was already on the rocks.<P>And I got what I demanded, not what I wanted.<P>No, you shouldnt be a doormat. Yes, you should maintain your self respect.<P>But what I'm sensing here, and again, I'm going to be brutally honest, is that this is more about your pride than your self-respect. And you are using the "self-respect" issue to further avenge yourself (love-busting) on your H, and to continue to try to force him to react the way you want him to do. I say this, because <B>I did the same thing</B>!!!! And it worked for me so well that I'm in divorce court now.<P>Now, just so you realize I'm being fair - your H is apparently doing alot of his own control and manipulation stuff too - but I'm not talking to him - I'm talking to you, about you, about the stuff you CAN control, which is about your actions.<P>If you really want to act with self-respect, then you need to look very hard at your motives and be very honest about them. Then act accordingly.<P>I know this is hard, and I'm sure much of what I have said here has made you angry. I know that because I've been on the receiving end - and today, I can tell you that I am exceedingly grateful to those people who kicked my butt when I was wrong. <P>I know it doesn't feel like it - but I'm passing on a favor that I will never be able to repay, and will always thank God on my knees for.<P>Thank you God for all the people who had the courage to tell me that I was wrong, instead of just giving me a warm fuzzy.<P>My heart does go out to you.<BR>(((a big caring hug))) BR

LAIG,<P>You are confusing people being honest with you, wanting to help you, and telling you their suggestions for what to do, with critizism. I was not trying to critize you, there is no need for that. I was trying, as were many others here, to get you to see the obvious reaction to your actions.<P>We all know you are deeply hurt. We all know this is very very hard. But we also know if you love your H you won't solve the problem by running away in anger. He is pushing you away right now, but as you said he is very confused.<P>In your earlier posts you were very aware of why he feels controlled by you and is now rebelling against it. I suspect your assessment was correct. But remember one thing he went through this exact pain for you and went on to help you through school.<P>It may come that you will for financial reasons have to move to TX. If that comes, then do so, but don't do it out of pain and anger, don't do it to force him to make a decision he cannot make. Actually, he has made a decision and this is what pains you I suspect.<P>He has decided he won't live with you the way you were. Hence Plan A, it is for you. You have love in your heart for him, but for years he hasn't known it. You want to give it to him, but on your terms. All of this is very normal. That is why Plan A, which is so simple, is such a revelation to people who first read it.<P>Harley recognized that people leave marriages because for whatever reason they come to dislike the behavior of their spouse. His suggestion? Have a look at yourself and see if you are proud of what you do, who you are, and if your spouse really did have some foundation for their assessment. If the answer is yes, you can make some behavioral changes, not necessarily change yourself, on how you present yourself to the world and your spouse. He has observed that when people do that, often the spouse comes out of the fog and sees "a different persons standing there waiting for them." <P>You aren't really different you are just more sensitive to the affects certain behaviors have on your spouse, but you sure do seem different. <P>This doesn't always work, but the success rate seems much higher than most approaches. So swallow a little pride, LAIG, calm down, and focus. You can do this, your H loves you and your H hates you, but your H isn't indifferent to you. That means there is a very good chance YOU can help save this marriage.<P>Is this making more sense to you? I hope so. Now you listen to NB,BR, and Orchid. These ladies know what they are talking about. They really do and they really want to see you happy and happily married to your H.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<P>PS: In case you don't know it, NB, is one of my favorites. She and I have discussed these sorts of issues for seems like years now. Actually, I guess it could be yearS now. She is trying to help you LAIG, let her.

One more thought, and btw, dittos to what Just Learning said! <P>I do my best thinking in the shower too and as I pondered this whole thread I realized that maybe this explanation might help:<P>You should treat yourself with self-respect. But often, it's used as an excuse.<P>As I already described in my post above - I used to use self-respect as a weapon.<P>Here's the same scenerio - but with 2 different motivations behind them.<P>In the past:<P>I kicked my H out of my bed. I told myself and him that he was disrespectful to me, and that he didn't deserve to be in MY bed. My motivation was not about self-respect - that was just the candy coated lie to myself.<P>I wanted to control, manipulate, and punish my H into doing what I wanted.<P>In the end, I punished and hurt myself. I ended up crying myself to sleep - because my H hurt me horribly by acquiesing to my demands. THE NERVE OF HIM!! <P>Now fast forward to today.<P>I've filed for divorce, and I'm STILL kicking my H out of my bed.<P>When he stays over, he pulls every trick in the book to get back into my bed. <P>But now, I do not cry myself to sleep when I draw a line, respect myself, and tell him to sleep alone.<P>My asking him to leave my bed is about protecting and loving myself - NOT about punishing and controlling him. I am no longer trying to force him to react - I let go of him, and focused on me.<P>So now I fall asleep, listening to him settling in the room across the hall - and know that my heart is safe from yet another hurt.<P>Same actions, different motivations, and so very different outcomes....

Soooo...<B>Learning as I go</B>: <P>Let us help you, please!!<P>...and <B>BR</B>, my gosh, I've so been where you are right now too! I {hanging my head} made my ex-H sleep on... I can't believe I'm saying this, or did it, but... the FLOOR. <P>Just like the dog I thought he was.<P>Nice, eh?<P>Listen to us, Learning... we have so much to offer you!!!<P> Hi to <B>JL</B>... kind words, cyber-pal Thank you! <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

To Jl, Bramle Rose, Orchid, and New beginnings.<P>I am reading your new posts now and taking them in. Yesterday I felt, well, there aren't words but I am sure that you all can identify. It felt like Dday all over again. I do feel a bit better today, but after last night I do see what I have lost.<P>More in a bit. <P>Thank you from the BOTTOM of my heart for your wisdom and mostly patience with me.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Just Learning:<BR><B>LAIG,<P>You are confusing people being honest with you, wanting to help you, and telling you their suggestions for what to do, with critizism. I was not trying to critize you, there is no need for that. I was trying, as were many others here, to get you to see the obvious reaction to your actions.<P>We all know you are deeply hurt. We all know this is very very hard. But we also know if you love your H you won't solve the problem by running away in anger. He is pushing you away right now, but as you said he is very confused.<P>In your earlier posts you were very aware of why he feels controlled by you and is now rebelling against it. I suspect your assessment was correct. But remember one thing he went through this exact pain for you and went on to help you through school.<P>It may come that you will for financial reasons have to move to TX. If that comes, then do so, but don't do it out of pain and anger, don't do it to force him to make a decision he cannot make. Actually, he has made a decision and this is what pains you I suspect.<P>He has decided he won't live with you the way you were. Hence Plan A, it is for you. You have love in your heart for him, but for years he hasn't known it. You want to give it to him, but on your terms. All of this is very normal. That is why Plan A, which is so simple, is such a revelation to people who first read it.<P>Harley recognized that people leave marriages because for whatever reason they come to dislike the behavior of their spouse. His suggestion? Have a look at yourself and see if you are proud of what you do, who you are, and if your spouse really did have some foundation for their assessment. If the answer is yes, you can make some behavioral changes, not necessarily change yourself, on how you present yourself to the world and your spouse. He has observed that when people do that, often the spouse comes out of the fog and sees "a different persons standing there waiting for them." <P>You aren't really different you are just more sensitive to the affects certain behaviors have on your spouse, but you sure do seem different. <P>This doesn't always work, but the success rate seems much higher than most approaches. So swallow a little pride, LAIG, calm down, and focus. You can do this, your H loves you and your H hates you, but your H isn't indifferent to you. That means there is a very good chance YOU can help save this marriage.<P>Is this making more sense to you? I hope so. Now you listen to NB,BR, and Orchid. These ladies know what they are talking about. They really do and they really want to see you happy and happily married to your H.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<P>PS: In case you don't know it, NB, is one of my favorites. She and I have discussed these sorts of issues for seems like years now. Actually, I guess it could be yearS now. She is trying to help you LAIG, let her.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi JL,<P>I just typed out this long response and it turned out I was editing your post and lost it. So let me try again.<P>Yesterday in my pain the old me came out. I apologize if I offended anyone here. I do realize that you are all here to help but I felt very justified in my actions. <P>He did come home last night. On his terms. Merely for the kids he says. He didnt mind sleeping in his car, as he was away from me. I have been trying to force a response from him. It always worked before. Not any more. <P>I laid in bed last night thinking how silly I used to think of the whole idea of a love bank. Makes sense now. He grew up in a very loving home. Doting mom, youngest of 11. It took years for me to drain his "bank" but I did. In a couple of months of plan A I filled and filled. He gave a little back. Then I blew it by telling him not to come home. He told me last night that he cant stand being around me and does not love me at all.<P>A couple of weeks ago he admitted that he reconsiders everyday. I had told him that he has loved me when I was completely unlovable ( sound familiar?) it would be a shame to give up now. He said that although I am completely loveable now he must do this.<P>I had told him before in a very loving manner that i need to go. I cannot let go as he needs me to while around him. I do this out of love, to give him the room that he needs, and to move on with my life. This gave him room to tell me that all he may need is some time. I dont know if this is true now. He told me last night he wants nothing from me. To stay away. He doesnt want my love in any way shape or form. Even mocks me for using this site. Well, I am going to go respond to NB BR and Orchid. Thank you for your patience. Please cont the input. GOD knows I need wisdom.<P>