I really don't know your whole story, but I have been where you are. My H left, said he didn't feel like working on our marriage. He had a "friend" who was there to give him all the emotional support that he needed.<P>We had no family that lived in our state, and of course more than once I told him that I was going to move to be by my family. It wasn't until I stopped pushing him to do the right thing and come back and work on our marriage that he finally did decide to work on things.<P>After almost a year of seperation we finally started to work on things. If I had stuck to my trying to controll the situation and make him see my side of things, I think we would be Divorced right now.<P>I concentrated on me and what I wanted out of life. I went back to work. The kids and I actually had a good life. Even though it was hard to be away from my family when I was going through the worst pain in my life, I did it for the kids sake. So they could still see their dad.<P>You have a H who has not completely given up yet. Work on changing you. Learn to be happy for yourself. If you can do that I think you have a grat chance to work things out with your H.<P>Just my thoughts...........

Dara, you and your husband are caught in a negative feedback loop. You reject him, and to deal with the pain he rejects you when you reach out to him. He rejects you, and to deal with the pain you reject him when he reaches out to you.<P>He says he doesn't care, but the actions <I>you</I> have reported indicate that he <I>does</I> care. But he can't <I>afford</I> to care, since he's afraid you'll just hurt him again. Perhaps he is numb, or perhaps he is lying to you about his feelings just like you keep lying to him about yours.<P>I think it might be wise for you to back off. Stop pressuring him. It doesn't sound as if you've <I>really</I> tried "Plan A" yet, and now might be a good time to start. A <A HREF="http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0809225131/o/qid=987199626/sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/102-1123539-3272133" TARGET=_blank>Controlled Separation</A> might be helpful. There are ways to do it while living in the same house. What's important is that you come up with a way of respecting each other's boundaries so that you both have a chance to heal.<BR>

Dear Dara, <P>Then give him this request. Give him this space and watch his actions. My H told me the same thing just 3 months ago. The more I tried to hold on to him, even after he moved out, the more he pulled away. Not just to OW but just away from me. It got ugly, hanging up on my calls, yelling at me, he broke his laptop trying to run out of the house with it, etc. <P>It was not until I actually let him go and said, you have your freedom.... that I slowly (weeks at a time) began to see signs of change. No they were not all positive. H moved out 12/31/00. H & OW went to Yosemite on a 3 day vac Feb 00, H spent a few days at OW's house just recently (a few days ago). YUCK. Yet there was some progress inbetween. Am I looking to hard? I used to. My heart would jump at the slightest progress and I be setup for disappointment when he went backwards. My anxiousness sacred him back into his self made hole. <P>So I played a bit aloof. While wanting to hear from him. I did not act with great anxiety. Now H wanted to know what I had been up to, why was I not bugging him and not worrying about him. Did I not Care?!?!?!? These thoughts made him think. Did his wife and child no longer think he was the most important thing since sliced bread? <P>Whether we did or not, H could no longer tell. What he did see was that he was no longer the center of our attention. The world went on without him. This made him wonder, where did he want to spend his life? Out there on his own or with someone? Well, for a while OW filled that need but eventually he got tired of her, he kept trying but she is a real loser. She is driving him off. I didn't even need to give her a map. <P>Now we are back to square one. Who wants to make this marriage work? BS, WS or both? That answer is in the making......<P>Your H might just need a bit of space to wake up and get back what he needs. In the meantime, you can work on being what he needs and he can work on being what you need. Have you taken the his needs/her needs questionnaire? A real eye opener.<P>L.<BR>

Oh, and one other thing. Have you apologized to him yet for your controlling behavior and your ingratitude? Have you been honest with him about your feelings yet?<BR>

Hi Dara, it's me again.<P>Well honey, you really let your emotions get the best of you...<P>I'm going to ask you again: Do you want to be "right" (or righteous) or do you want your marriage?<P>This man brought you coffee yesterday. That was a STEP toward you. You might as well have thrown it back in his face.<P>It reminds me of a friend who, when her H brought her flowers and asked for forgiveness, cut them up in front of his face and said nothing. They are divorced.<P>Is that what you want?<P>Dara, you have a good heart and you love your H. He loves you. You have children (young ones) and they need you both.<P>You have SO MUCH to give -- find it in your heart to give it to your H and see what happens.<P>Don't throw him away. <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

Dara,<P>Bringing this back up because I'm worried about you...<P>I'll be in and out during the long weekend... and weekends are notoriously slow anyway -- don't give up -- we still care, and we'll all be "back to normal" (as much as possible ) next week.<P>Hopefully something that someone has said here will help you...<P>You have so much promise, Dara, and so does your H!! Don't give up now!!<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

Dara, Good morning, I didn't get to follow up yesterday, but I'm back again! <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><BR>He doesnt want empathy. He doesnt want anything from me. He says now he cant stand being around me, and does not love me, nor will accept my love. I just tried to reach out to him and he pushed away. Says he doesnt care. OK guys I am throwing in the towel.<P>Let go is what I hear. BR do you understand that in order to do that I cant be around him. I am having a VERY hard time dealing with his rejection of me.<P>I do have empathy for what he is going through, that comes because I love him. Now I cannot even touch him. Pushed away. <P><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Your H is trying to protect himself from you. He does love you.<P>It's funny, over the last year, my own H has said everything I ever wanted to hear...and his actions said exactly the opposite. Someone said to me a long time ago: <B>Bramblerose, turn down the volume on what he says, and watch what he does.</B><P>Now I'm going to tell you the same thing. Only unlike me, you need to see that his actions say that he does love you. His actions are not rejecting or pushing you away, only his words. If he really wanted out of your marriage - he'd have gone ahead with a divorce.<P>Letting go does NOT equal running away. And if you go to TX, thats what you are doing.<P>After reading more of your story, and seeing the things that JL and Sheryl have to say about your situation, I have to say that I think that if you go to TX, you will probably do serious if not fatal damage to your marriage.<P>How are you going to learn to let go if he's not around? How are you going to Plan A long distance? <P>Letting go means more than fleeing the state and absenting yourself from his life. It means being able to live with him, but not control him. It means showing respect for his own free will and choices. It means instead of demanding what you feel is right, you accept that he is a grown man capable of choosing for himself and that he has the RIGHT to choose, regardless of your opinion of his choices.<P>((hugs)) Dara, giving up before you have started isn't the answer!!<P>BR<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GnomeDePlume:<BR><B>Oh, and one other thing. Have you apologized to him yet for your controlling behavior and your ingratitude? Have you been honest with him about your feelings yet?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yes, I did today. I spoke to him, and told him that I have NOT been honest with him. Thanks to you folks here, I can see that. I told him that when he came to me after I exiled myself to the bedroom, and said that I did not want to be around him what I really meant was this:<P>I appreciate your gesture, bringing me coffee. When you came home in my "overly sensitive state", I FELT ignored when you left the room. I would rather be alone that be hurt anymore. I apologized for not being more receptive to him.<P>When I asked of you what you would be willing to do to keep us here I realize that nothing you could have said would have made me happy, except that you want me. What I told you I wanted was a change of heart, really not towards our marraige, but to tell me something has changed w/i you to allow us to get along.<P>In my "nutshell" of pain, I told him, it is hard to think rationally. Now I have made many mistakes and trashed any chances of you trusting yourself with me. I said that in my pain I have said many things that I DID NOT mean, in an effort to protect myself. What I couldn't see is that I was hurting myself in truth. In the past when I pushed you away, it always drew you in. Now it's not, and I have ALOT of growing up to do. <P>Well, what do you think so far?<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by new_beginning:<BR><B>Dara,<P>Bringing this back up because I'm worried about you...<P>I'll be in and out during the long weekend... and weekends are notoriously slow anyway -- don't give up -- we still care, and we'll all be "back to normal" (as much as possible ) next week.<P>I dont feel like I have much promise to be honest. No I dont say that to start a pity party, but many of my mistakes are well, related to everything about me. Make any sense? How I was raised, blah blah blah. I do at least see that now, mostlky through prayer, and the words I hear here. I dont have too much experience realting to people as you can see. We have been military for all of our adult lives, never growing "roots." Also being a stay at home mom I have isolated myself too. <P>So He has always been my best friend. I have learned alot from him, and surprisingly am alot like him even thoug I have nothing but respect for him and view myself as a failure. Very deep issues here I realize. How to get through I dont know, but I do know that they need to be resolved if I want to grow. Which I do.<P>Thanks to everyone's WISE advice here, I am able to reflect in a MUCH different light upon my words and actions. I see things I did not see before. Like the whole control issue.<P>Today I am better. I spent last night crying, feeling so much like a failure. As Gnome stated, yes he does have the patience of a saint. <P>Is there still hope? I dont know. I have managed to break every trust I so diligently established during these past few months. I know I need to work on me, instead of changing his mind. <P>This is still very hard, as I am sure you know. I hurt. Badly. Like never before. <P>Ok enough venting. Hope to hear from you soon.<P>Thank you for caring!!<BR>Dara<P>Hopefully something that someone has said here will help you...<P>You have so much promise, Dara, and so does your H!! Don't give up now!!<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>

Back to the top here.<P>Sorry, I almost feel that I have become a bit too needy here. But, I do realize the honesty I recive here is very much needed. <P>I still wonder about the whole issue of control. And if it is possible to stay here w/o running home and keep my sanity. To let go. Maybe I will read "controlled seperation" as Gnome suggested even though I know H wont have anything to do with it. Just to give myself some boundaries to follow. <P>Presenty I am being led by my emotions, and I know that IS NOT healthy. I dont know how receptive H would be to me staying. He expressed to me before that he does not want us to go, and honestly I kinda thought that moving would help me to "move on" and maybe help pull his head out of his A**. <P>But, alas, the enevitable but, I do see that mostly thanks to JL's last post to me that I am attempting to force a response from him. My freiudian (sp) ID felt REAL good when he asked me to stay. Old Dara? YES.<P>New Dara? I dont know the soloution. Stay? I need help figuring out how to do it and to let go, to not be so hurt every time I face rejection. To grow, and to let go of that outer shell JL so intuitively observed. Which has been my undoing.<P>Yes to stay would prob be better for the little one's. When I mentioned the need for "support" I meant emotional support. This was also the oppurtunity to be closer to his mom who I adore, who is elderly and misses the kids.<P>So it wasn't a purely selfish decision. Anyway, just in the last couple of days I have learned much thanks to all the support here. Maybe this is my answer for the need for emotional support. Who knows. Still learning as I go. Alot these pasr few days. JL, NB, BR, Gnome,and Orchid I truely wonder why your marraiges fell apart. Maybe you were married to some idiot such as myself who didn't see the light until it was too late!!<P>Looking forward to hearing from y'all soon.<P>Dara

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Learning as I go:<BR><B> I said that in my pain I have said many things that I DID NOT mean, in an effort to protect myself. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Have you read about Harley's <I>Law of Protection</I>? This does not mean protect yourself... quite the contrary actually. It refers to protecting others from you - and your love-busting behavior. May I suggest you study the triggers that set you off into your flight mode - to the bedroom, to Texas... and try to break it down to get the space you need without hurting your H emotionally? People used to say 'count to 10' but I found that hard when my temper would flare. However, when I studied situations that would set me off, it prepared me a bit for my emotional reactions. For instance, when your husband does X (brings me a coffee) - what is the worst case scenario that could play out (that he wouldn't chat with me) - and what will I do if it actually plays out that way? <P>This way you're prepared for the worst so you're not at the mercy of your normal emotionally charged reactions AND the beauty of it is that if he DOESN'T do the worst case scenario you will be so pleasantly surprised that he may receive you warmly as well. Win:Win!<P>Anyway, once again, my personal disclaimer is that I find this much easier to say than do on a <I>consistent</I> basis... <P>God bless you and may this weekend find you in peace as you reflect on it's true meaning...<P>------------------<BR>We cannot do everything at once... but we can do something at once

Dara,<P>Getting late at night but I wanted to start you thinking about a few things this week. First, you are not a failure. That is the point of all of this. You will learn how to win no matter what your H decides. This is the secret of Plan A and what people are telling you here. I don't know if you read the long posts to StevieB on the board but is some ways his situation paralleled yours.<P>One of the things that we "beat up" on him for was "reacting" rather than "acting." I someways this is where you are. Let me explain. Take the coffee situation. He brings you coffee, but he doesn't behave as you expected or wanted. You "reacted" to this and didn't help yourself.<P>What we are trying to get you to see, among other things, is that you need to live out the situation politely, or even quietly. See what happens during his visit, gather your data and information, and the "ACT" according to what happened not to what you think is HAPPENING. Do you see the difference?<P>Consider your chosen profession, nursing. When you are in a life or death situation you must "act" not "react". You see blood, loss of vital signs, but still you need to find out where the patient is bleeding, you must "act" fact but you must not "react" to just the blood. You must gather data, rely on your training and then "act" according to what you know.<P>Now think back to what we have said to you on this tread. Doesn't this sound a bit like what we are telling you. You don't "control" the patient, you save the patient, you make them comfortable, and you heal them. In the process, don't you feel great when the walk out of a hospital healed? So greatful for all you have done for them?<P>You do this for strangers, but you cannot do it for someone you love? I think you can. I think your situation is salvagable, but you need to "act" not react. You need to have a plan, anticipate what may happen given what you know and decide how to "act", just like you do in your profession.<P>Dara you can do this and you know what? Your life will become better for it. You will be the kind of person that people want to be around. <P>So think about it and see if a plan cannot be constructed to get you through this thing. It will be good for you, it will be good for the kids, and it will be good for your H.<BR>Not a bad deal, don't you think.<P>Must go.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<P>