OK I did the big talk tonight. Heres the jist:<P>Worked late, asked hiim if we could chat for a bit. Asked him if he remembered what I said las tnight (laying in bed talking about my self discoveries) No he didnt, was tired. <BR>I said that I was talking about my " control issues and mistrust". Went on to say that since I have been realizing soo much more lately I have done alot of reevaluating myself, and my decisions.<P>Told him very honestly my reasoning for leaving. History: We had decided to "cohabitate" for a couple years while finished school to allow him to finish w/o financial pressure, to prolong telling the kids giving them a but more time to be with both of us, ease me into adjusting. But he told the kids one night how wonderful the OW is and that he is leaving me. Next day I came up with the idea of leaving. he destoyed prolonging telling the kids, and pissed me off by defending her to them, I thought I could not live with this for 2 years.<P>I have rationalized myself into thinking that it's for the best. But, I said ,that decision was based on emotions and control. Long story short of what I told him was that I was reevaluating why I made that decision and whether it was really for the best. Went on about growth and all those good things.<P>His reply? He says my decision was made the moment I thought about leaving to Tx. That he doesnt have to accept these changes, nor does he want to. <P>I stated that I have not in as much changed my mind but was just reevaluating whether it was made with the best intent for us. I was being quite ambigous, talking more about my personal growth than asking him if I could stay. Testing the waters so to speak. After 30-45 minutes he made a one minute reply about my decision being made when I thought ut and he doesn't have to accept any changes I have made. (I never asked him to, but I suppose if I asked to stay because I realize I was wrong he would be accepting my growth/changes by saying yes.)<P>After silence for a bit I said that I was going to bed. After we were in bed I asked him if he understood what I was approaching him about, because I feel that he had already given me an answer. Did he understand where I was going? Yes, he did, he said. I said that I felt he had already spoken his answer. He fell asleep w/o a response. I got up and said I was going to the front. Why? Because I said I am too frustrated!! Come back lets talk. OK. I have already spoken much, I know you are tired, do you have something on your mind? He said that what has been decided is set, he doesnt want to have to sleep in the car ever again. (Again, IMO his choice.) I told him that I dont want to put pressure on him by directly asking, just wanted to let him know what I am thinking. And the growth/changes I have been expeiencing, and what I heard from you is that you dont care about me. Thats how it made me feel. He fell asleep again and I silently went to the couch. Couldn't sleep or make sense of this so I am here at 1:30AM. <P>Dammit!! All this thinking/posting/comtemplating and hoping for just a chance for us these past few months and now he doesn't even want to live with me as he previously desired. I know you all I am sure will remind me how I put myself here, that it was my idea to leave. I realize this all to well. I feel really down again. Another setback. How can I hope for reconciliation when now he so eager to see me go? Wouldnt even let me get to ask him, stopped me before I got there? Doesnt care about me expressing to him I think I made a bad decision in leaving?

Learning,<P>Have you really put yourself anywhere yet? If you are still in the home, you have every right to stay there. It might be a good thing to have had a change of heart. <P>Don't forget you are in a position of trying to make life changing decisions in an emotionally charged situation. There must be some reason why they put erasers on pencils. Maybe it was to correct mistakes. If one must make a course correction, the sooner the better.<P>Bumper

Oh Learning, my own little personal quest! <P>Darling girl, why not try this for a conversation opener:<P>"H, I have been thinking. I made a mistake saying I wanted to leave. I don't want to go. I will be staying."<P>...sigh...<P>All those words about personal growth mean nothing if he doesn't SEE IT! Yes, you're *calming down* but jeez... <P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Told him very honestly my reasoning for leaving.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hon, you DON'T WANT TO LEAVE, so WHY are you saying this? <P>Let me tell you what I think: Manipulation... and I'm sorry to say that.<P>You think (and hope) that when you say, "when I leave" he will say, "don't go"... but he doesn't, does he? Quit trying to control the situation in this way.<P>If you want to control it, try this:<P>"Just thought you should know, H, I am not going anywhere. I believe in our marriage, I believe in you. I love you."<P>What do you think?<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

Where are you, Learning? <P>I will be gone most of today, and will leave you in the very capable hands/fingers of my commerades (is that spelled right? Doesn't look right!)...<P>Keep posting!! Don't give up now... you've come far, even if you don't think so...<P>Hugs!! <P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

Dara,<P>Sheryl said it perfectly. You are not in a situation to negotiate with your H. He isn't of the mindset to do that, does this remind you of someone you once knew? <P>Seriously, these are YOUR decisions about your life and the life of the children. This is the part that is hard, I know . You are used to having your H with you in all of these decision, whether you controlled him or not, he hung with you. <P>He cannot do that now. Maybe in the future he will be able to, but now he cannot. He is being very childish actually, but as Sheryl said he does have to the grown woman you are becoming Dara. Make your decisions, make them for the right reason, if you decide to stay, rent the house out in TX and use the money to help you and children. Apparently, you have a good job, good schools, and I suspect that if H does leave, you will find plenty of men interested in the new you.<P>Dara, just let your H be. If you decide not to move, then tell him of your decision. You see Dara we have several goals here. <P>1. To help you save your marriage if possible.<P>2. To help you reach your potential as a person and a mate.<P>3. To see you happy.<P>Notice that these goals are intertwined. They mean you must grow and mature. They mean you must show a generousity that is a bit new to you. It means you must become internally stronger because from strength comes forgiveness and the ability to deal with our all to human failings.<P>You are getting there Dara. You are going to make yourself and your children proud. I suspect that your H will turn the corner but it will take time. One thing is don't talk to him when he is tired. You will always get the easy answer because he doesn't want to be bothered. In many ways your H is being a jerk. But he happens to be a jerk that you love. <P>So don't do any talking when the two of you are tired. Remember these are your decisions to make not his. His approval is not required, nor even wanted right now. You are not making these decisions for him, they are for your children and yourself. When he reengages in the family, then his opinion should count and count heavily, but until then don't control him, don't engage him. Simply do Plan A.<P>Must go.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Hi ya Sheryl, Bumper and JL!!<P>Just took the little ones to school so here I am! <P>Bumper, have you followed this saga? You are right, I do have the right to change my mind, yet I also have the respect for him to ASK.<P>Sheryl,<P>By telling him very honestly, I kinda figured you all would realize I was honest with him about myself. I told him I question my reasoning about my decision, that maybe it was made out of anger. I was open with him as I am with you all here. And I wanted to show him the respect of asking, not just telling him I changed my mind because that does affect him as well.<P>JL, <P>Wow! I must be making progress for you to comment on him being a jerk. You are right, I am looking for validation from him. No I dont per se need his permission to stay, but do want to be respectful of his life and needs. BTW, the house in TX is a gift from MIL. If I dont go it will be in her hands as there is no legal exchange of ownership taken place. <P>Yes I need to make my decision here, but in a way I was testing the waters about us by approaching him about staying. No I realize I am not in the position to negotiate here. <P>Surprisingly, this all did not depress me. I am at the moment anxious to move on, to make some changes in my life. Tired of worrying about us. I want to get a life!!<BR>

Another thought guys:<P>About staying. I reconsider staying based on hope for our marraige, and the need for the kids to be around their dad. If I stay, and he moves out and moves on, I dont want to live here alone!! I miss his mom and mine as well. <P>So its a gamble.. I am not going to tell him I am staying until I am sure of it. If we are not together anymore I dont want to be here. I understand his rights legally and abandonment issues, however we were brought up here by the military, and I honestly have no interest in staying here divorced. Legally our state of residence is TX, and he is not bound to stay here either. So it is justifiable to go home. My dad brought up that point, that he could try to get me badly in court. But I know he wouldnt ever do that. He was offended deeply when he came come one day and found the yellow pages open to Attorneys. He is not out to get me, I know that. <P>Why did I go there? I dont know, just exploring the ramifications of leaving. Movers are coming tomorrow to do an assessment of the transfer. JL, I need to get moving and make some plans here. Two months!! With that in mind what should I do? I dont want to force myself on him by staying w/o permission. It would prob cause him to move out. And then I am back to square one, would rather be home in Tx.<P>Today I feel so good. I was hoping for the best last night and was let down. But had prepared myself for it. Although I am struggling internally to not become guarded and indifferent to him by preparing my self to be let down.Finding some strength in it actually. Him saying no to me and not finding myself in another spiraling tunnel of despair.<P>JL why may I ask frankly did you mention something about finding plenty of men interested in the new me? Does it appear that I need to be loved and needed? Desperate of some sort? Hope not.<P>Dara

Dara,<P>I mentioned it because I believe that while people don't have to be married to lead a full and productive life, those that are happily married seem to enjoy life and are rewarded more. Why? Well, I believe as someone here once pointed out, that marriage can makes us better human beings. Being parents, for the most part begins to remove the selfish aspects of our personalities. Being a spouse means we learn to adjust to another person deeply embedded into our lives. It means we love them with all of their failings, we become more forgiving.<P>What I am saying to you is become a better person. It may save your marriage. But it will definitely lead to you having a happier life. But the real reason I mentioned other men, is the controling issue. Most people control because they are afraid to "lose" something. Why are they afraid to "lose" this something, because they believe that it cannot be replaced. In your case we are talking about your H. Being an H I will probably be thrown out of the fraternity for saying this, but we can be replaced. <P>You need to out grow the control, because your H isn't the only person in the world you can love. Sadly you do know that as you had an affair. But seriously this is true. The other sad but true fact is most humans can only truely love one other person at a time. OH! they can like other people, be physically attracted to a variety of people, but the deep sharing, openness, and trust that comes with a committed love can by definition only happen one person at a time.<P>That is why infidelity is such a terrible blow to the spouse. You know all of this already.<P>My point of the comment was simply to grow, feel, try, and be the best you can. It won't hurt any more than what you are going through, but you will enjoy life so much more.<P>Dara, your decisions are complex. I do not pretend to know what is right for you. But I would think that if you love your H, you will want to be around him even if he is currently adament about ending the marriage. That is my thinking. Now I happen to have lived in both parts of the country you are considering. I truely enjoyed both of them very much. But I would suggest that you consider what you want to do, but not try to drag your H through the decision process. He doesn't want to be part of it. <P>He may respond positively if you stayed, because you made the choice without influence from him. He does seem to want to avoid enfluencing you in this decison. He may miss the children so bad that he gives up his education and moves to Tx, but I suspect that he will regret not getting his degree finished. Apart form anything else he does seem from what you say, want to do well in school. You understand this, you went through school while married to him.<P>So it always come down to you. Please read His Needs Her Needs if you haven't. Read about Plan A further as well. I wish I could solve your problem, but only time and patience can do that.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Well Dara, I understand where you're coming from, honestly.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Learning as I go:<BR><B>About staying. I reconsider staying based on hope for our marraige, and the need for the kids to be around their dad. If I stay, and he moves out and moves on, I dont want to live here alone!! I miss his mom and mine as well. <P>So its a gamble.. I am not going to tell him I am staying until I am sure of it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>Ah, this is where *faith* comes in. Dara, I can see that your H loves you and does NOT want to leave you. I can see that you love him and do NOT want to go, but... you are afraid -- of having your heart broken, of making a mistake, of being alone... yes, these are all valid fears -- but they are just that - FEARS. They have not happened. Dara, do you remember the risk you took when you fell in love in the first place? Do you remember that you stepped out in faith and believed that your H loved you as much as you loved him? That's what you have to do now. You have to believe that he is hurting, just as you are hurting, and that he is afraid, just like you... but that ultimately he wants YOU, just as you want HIM. Dara, step out in faith.<P>There are many H's here that don't show the love that your H shows. Mine did the same, and I pushed him away. He then found someone else AGAIN to meet his needs, because SOMEONE had to, and the cycle began again... pain, withholding love, pain, giving love, pain, withholding love.... you see?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>JL, I need to get moving and make some plans here. Two months!! With that in mind what should I do? I dont want to force myself on him by staying w/o permission. It would prob cause him to move out. And then I am back to square one, would rather be home in Tx.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE></B><P>Dara, please do something for me. Just one little thing. Go to your H, when he's NOT TIRED, and say, "H, I don't want to move out or get a divorce. I will work on our marriage. Is that okay with you?" and see what happens. If he says, no, it's not okay (which I don't for a second think he will) then yes, you've lost a bit of your heart again, but you can reassess where you're going. This process is so painful already, a little setback won't hurt as much as you think. But Dara, IF HE SAYS YES... oh honey, how would you feel????<P><P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

Sheryl, <P>Thank you. I KNOW very very well if I go to him and tell him I dont want to move and dont want a divorce that I just want to stay here and work on the marraige his reply will sound like this:<P>Dara..There IS NO MARRAIGE to work on. Dont base your decisions on this marraige because it takes two, and I am not going to be part of it.<P>I do know him pretty well. And I also feel very certain of his response. <P>Thoughts?

And where please tell me do you see this so I can find some of it for myself?:<P>And I know he loves you and does not want you to leave.<P><BR>He said that he will always have love for me, but it is not romance material. Like a sis. <P>When I first told him I was leaving I saw so much pain in him. MAybe I just need time Dara. I wont ever hate you in fact it might be the opposite. So are you going to come back in few years? <P>These are all things he said after I told him. I think that now he just doesnt want to admit any frailities over me. And now last night he told me he dosnt care about my growth, he wont accept it. And basically told me no I cant stay.

Well Dara,<P>Then try this:<P>"H, I want to work on the marriage. Our family is worth it all. I just want you to know that."<P>Then, say he says what you said, "...no marriage... nothing to work on..."<P>Say,<P>"I disagree, but you are intitled to your opinion, of course. H, *you* are worth whatever I have to do to work on this marriage."<P>... and then if he says, "...no marriage... no, you can't..." <P>Say, <P>"H, you don't have to do a thing right now. I will do the work. I want this marriage to succeed. You and our child are worth whatever I need to do."<P>You know Dara, I really do understand where you are coming from... and if, by chance, your H really doesn't want to be married to you (which again, I don't beleive from what you've written) then you will know that you did *all you could* to try.<P>Be patient, and... are you a spiritual person? Prayer and/or meditation works wonders for your soul and spirit... maybe it is time to "give it to God" and see what He can do??<P>------------------<BR>~Sheryl<BR>(a bit worse for the wear, but hanging in there)<P><B>Life <I>is</I> difficult</B>.<BR><I>The Road Less Traveled</I><BR>~M. Scott Peck

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by new_beginning:<BR><B>Well Dara,<P>Then try this:<P>"H, I want to work on the marriage. Our family is worth it all. I just want you to know that."<P>Then, say he says what you said, "...no marriage... nothing to work on..."<P>Say,<P>"I disagree, but you are intitled to your opinion, of course. H, *you* are worth whatever I have to do to work on this marriage."<P>... and then if he says, "...no marriage... no, you can't..." <P>Say, <P>"H, you don't have to do a thing right now. I will do the work. I want this marriage to succeed. You and our child are worth whatever I need to do."<P>You know Dara, I really do understand where you are coming from... and if, by chance, your H really doesn't want to be married to you (which again, I don't beleive from what you've written) then you will know that you did *all you could* to try.<P>Be patient, and... are you a spiritual person? Prayer and/or meditation works wonders for your soul and spirit... maybe it is time to "give it to God" and see what He can do??<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Ok will try Sheryl. I am just tired of being so consumed with this. <P>I do pray. In fact I feel guilty for being here so much instead of praying this much. I am growing, andI like it.<BR>I want freedom from this pain!!! No easy answers, I know. Years to get here, I hear you. I am preoccupied, and I am tired of it frankly. There has got to be more to life than this. I know there is, its just waiting for ME!!<P>I bet you see my rollercoaster ride quite well huh? <P>The movers can always be canceled. I just am getting stressed about cleaning out the closets and garage and all that organization of moving. Our record is 2 years in one place, which is here, being military.<P>I feel a sense of freedom right now by this setback!!!<BR>Sure I have been by this computer way too much, but I am not lying in bed crying all day either. Feels good to be hit hard and not fall. Worry about developing numbness though.<P>More later. I have MUCH gratitude for all of you being there for me. I have expressed more about myself to you all than anyone in my life. Sad huh? <P>But, from the bottom of my heart, thank you all. <P>Baseball game tonight Sheryl, will write more later.<P>Hugs, <BR>Dara<P><BR>

Dear Dara,<P>Just a thought I had while reading through your stuff today.<P>Dara, if you decide not to move....do you realize what a golden opportunity you will have?<P>You will have 2 YEARS to plan A your H, and get him to fall in love with you again!!!<P>Ignore what he says, watch what he does...and plan A your little heart out. If after 2 years of living and sleeping in close proximity to a new and improved Dara, he is still cold-hearted, then you will know that you did everything you could to save your marriage, and you can move on.<P>You've got alot more than most of us ever had!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Learning as I go:<BR><B>Told him very honestly my reasoning for leaving. History: We had decided to "cohabitate" for a couple years while finished school to allow him to finish w/o financial pressure, to prolong telling the kids giving them a but more time to be with both of us, ease me into adjusting. But he told the kids one night how wonderful the OW is and that he is leaving me. Next day I came up with the idea of leaving. he destoyed prolonging telling the kids, and pissed me off by defending her to them, I thought I could not live with this for 2 years.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Dara, there's really no way to defend your husband on this, but I wonder. Did your husband say he was leaving you <I>for</I> the OW, or was he "just" comparing the two of you. Does/did your husband believe he has a future with this woman, or was/is he just thinking that he might be able to find someone "better" than you?<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>His reply? He says my decision was made the moment I thought about leaving to Tx. That he doesnt have to accept these changes, nor does he want to.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Am I the only one that finds these comments baffling? I can't tell <I>what</I> he was trying to say.<P>I know that it is dangerous to start contemplating leaving your spouse. It is dangerous to start thinking about divorce. Because instead of concentrating on how to repair your relationship, you start dreaming about escape. Could your husband have meant something like this? I don't know.<P>Your husband says he doesn't have to accept your changes and doesn't want to. Huh? He doesn't have any control over that. Whether you change is up to you. Perhaps he was merely trying to say that, whatever changes you made in yourself, he wasn't going to allow himself to be manipulated by them. By you. That sounds fair enough. But I really don't know what he may have meant.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I stated that I have not in as much changed my mind but was just reevaluating whether it was made with the best intent for us. I was being quite ambigous, talking more about my personal growth than asking him if I could stay. Testing the waters so to speak.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You took the safe road. You could have done better, and you could have done worse. You weren't entirely straight with your husband, and you didn't get any direct answers. But I don't know how likely you were to get a direct answer in any case.<P>What's most important, though, is that your husband now knows that you are seriously thinking about staying.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>I told him...what I heard from you is that you dont care about me. Thats how it made me feel. ...Dammit!! All this thinking/posting/comtemplating and hoping for just a chance for us these past few months and now he doesn't even want to live with me as he previously desired. ...How can I hope for reconciliation when now he so eager to see me go? Wouldnt even let me get to ask him, stopped me before I got there? Doesnt care about me expressing to him I think I made a bad decision in leaving? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Some strange conclusions here. Maybe you <I>felt</I> that he doesn't care about you, but that's not what he said. Nor did he say that he doesn't want to live with you (unless there's something you haven't told us). How did he give you the impression that he is "eager" to see you go?<P>Whatever else may be true about all this, there are clearly a couple of things you are being unfair about. First, he did not stop you from asking him about staying. <I>You</I> stopped <I>yourself</I>. Second, he <I>did</I> care about what you were telling him. In spite of his exhaustion, even after falling asleep, he actually <I>called you back</I> to continue talking.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Learning as I go:<BR><B>I KNOW very very well if I go to him and tell him I dont want to move and dont want a divorce that I just want to stay here and work on the marraige his reply will sound like this:<P>Dara..There IS NO MARRAIGE to work on. Dont base your decisions on this marraige because it takes two, and I am not going to be part of it.<P>I do know him pretty well. And I also feel very certain of his response. <P>Thoughts?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Don't ask him if you can stay and "work on the marriage". Your purpose in staying should be to work on <I>yourself</I>, and to learn how to love your husband better.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Learning as I go:<BR><B>I think that now he just doesnt want to admit any frailities over me. And now last night he told me he dosnt care about my growth, he wont accept it. And basically told me no I cant stay.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>First you demonstrate some insight into your husband's attitude, and then you immediately forget all about that insight! Your husband did <I>not</I> tell you that you can't stay. All he really told you is not to expect anything from <I>him</I>.<P>You are definitely going to have to learn not to jump to so many negative conclusions! You are causing an awful lot of your own pain, and even without doing that you already have plenty of pain to deal with!<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GnomeDePlume:<BR><B> First you demonstrate some insight into your husband's attitude, and then you immediately forget all about that insight! Your husband did <I>not</I> tell you that you can't stay. All he really told you is not to expect anything from <I>him</I>.<P>You are definitely going to have to learn not to jump to so many negative conclusions! You are causing an awful lot of your own pain, and even without doing that you already have plenty of pain to deal with!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Gnome,<P>Yes I am pessimistic by nature naturally. HE-HE!!<BR>I know him pretty well Gnome, and what he did was spare me from asking. What he meant by "your decision was made as soon as you thought it" I have no clue. I think what he meant was something along the line of me being pretty unstable and on a rollercoaster of emotions lately. He is a careful deliberate person. So maybe he doesnt "get" me changing my mind about moving, or questioning the motives my motives to move. If I thought it, I should have weighed it heavily before truely considering and definitley before announcing my decision.<P>Make sense at all?<P>On to your next post.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GnomeDePlume:<BR><B> Some strange conclusions here. Maybe you <I>felt</I> that he doesn't care about you, but that's not what he said. Nor did he say that he doesn't want to live with you (unless there's something you haven't told us). How did he give you the impression that he is "eager" to see you go?<P>Whatever else may be true about all this, there are clearly a couple of things you are being unfair about. First, he did not stop you from asking him about staying. <I>You</I> stopped <I>yourself</I>. Second, he <I>did</I> care about what you were telling him. In spite of his exhaustion, even after falling asleep, he actually <I>called you back</I> to continue talking.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I felt that he didnt care about me because he stated that he has zero interest in my "growth". This from the man that said recently that he wants to send me back to school, even if it takes years to do, because he will always care.<BR>He actually did not give me the impression that he eager to see me go. Just didnt care to listen to why I may want to stay. <P>How do I figure he stopped me from asking? Throughout all the talking about my groth and reevaluating my decision he just listened. When he finally did speak it was only to say he does not have to accept my changes nor does he care to have me reconsider my decision. Whats done is done. Say what you mean kinda guy. You said you were leaving so do it. I said I want a D so I will do it even though I still love you. He even told me that he reconsiders every day if he has gone too far, but dammit he wants control of his own life. He wont change his mind over the D just because I love him and dont want it. <P>I would put money on the fact that since I do believe he loves me, if I had said to him OK have the stinkin D it's about time he would, in time change his mind. Not to spite me though. He just really needs control over his life. To make HIS decision independent of me<P>Dara <P>PS. I found a letter today he wrote me while away right after my affair. It broke my heart. He told me everything I feel now, just in a more poetic fashion. Maybe I will post it. It broke my heart to see that he once went through the same thing I am and then some. He had such a pure innocent love for me. <BR>

Gnome, <P>The reason he defended the OW to the kids was this. Middle D (8) wanted to beat her up. said she HATED her. H said she is not so bad D, She is actually really nice.<P>I dont think he is stupid enough to pursue a relationship with the OW. I asked he said no.<P>Plus, I forced the talk with the girls. they approached me that AM and told me they knew and were hurting. They refused to talk to him about it, as I had suggested to them that we should all sit down and talk tonight. Told H, he did not feel comfortable with it. But I forced it, (control, yep) with the sincere intent that they would not open up to him alone, and this was his chance to reassure them things were OK.<P>His take? I was using the kids to manipulate him, and was coaching them. He even accused me of showing them the letters I found. Yeah right, as if.<P>So he went into the "talk" talking to me not them. Reaffirmed that he would not change his mind to me. All I truely hoped for was for him to reassure them, at this point they still did not know about the D.<P>Next day I decided to leave.