Hi there Bill,<P>Glad to hear you had a "mental distraction" from the pain of yesterday. Albeit green shag carpet. Makes sense to me that you come from Kansas.. Now I understand Dorotht a little better. <P>What the hell is she talking about "sweet revenge " for? Tell me, or us, what her "reasons" are for leaving your marraige. Is it the typical "love you but not in love any more", or " I need to find myself", or "you deserve someone better than me" type things? It seems WS read that sam secret code book. Wish I could get my hands on it!!<P>I have debated in my mind what plan A really means. Steve Harley obviously knows alot about marraige. I am sure there is a definitive purpose to plan A besides what my first opinion of it was. Which was basically selling yourself to your spouse. Which truely is not such a bad thing ya know.. We forget alot after being married. Forget charm, affection, manners, consideration. We forget that a green mask at night isnt pretty, nor is a beer gut!! we get too comfortable. I first kinda thought plan A was nothing more than being a submissive doormat, to "win them over." Made no sense to me!! If it worked, it would be only a matter of time before the "real us" comes back.<P>On the other hand, why would I want to change myself so much to the point of feeling like a doormat just because he doewsnt want me? Yeah I can acknowledge my take to the downword spiral of this marraige (75%),but whats the point in forcing so much on your self during such a traumatic time?<P>For me, it makes more sense now. There is soo way much more to me than my marraige. Realizing that yes I love him with all my heart. But just because he does not want me doesnt mean I am worthless. This has been a struggle for me. Because he has been good to me throughout the years. He is handsome, well liked, even tempered, smart, patient, thoughtful, sensitive and a man of integrity. And he loved me sooo much through the years. So I fall into a pity party every now and then feeling like such a complete failure. All of my shortcomings, from day one of our relationship have surfaced. By me and him. I was a fool for so many years!!<P>But plan A deals with all of that. Yeah, I've got a hell of alot of shortcomings, but I do have self-worth! I am lovable. And I can give love unconditionally too. Not based on circumstance. So if he decides that he doesnt want me, my life isnt over!! But in the meantime, I'll show him how much I DO love him, and in the meantime gain some self-respect too. Something I've never had too much of. My sense of humor came back a bit yesterday..For a short (sweet) while I realized that there is a reason to smile. I am in a way so very thankful for this pending divorce. I have gained so much insight in my life and my heart than I ever could have done without this crisis. Grown up alot!!<P>Sometimes, as I am sure you know, it is easy to get lost in this. Every waking moment feeling your hurt and desperation. About three days after he told me, I was in my son's bed, I had read him a book and fell asleep with him. I woke up a while later feeling fine. For about 3-5 seconds. Then I remembered. And cried so hard. Thought there must be away!! Came out to the front and begged. Told him how sorry I was, and how much he meant to me. I was met with nothing but cruelty and coldness. Those 3-5 seconds felt soo dam good to me. They stood out like a beacon. I dont think I'll ever forget the despair of remembering.<P>On to your question, enough soul-baring here. Washington is gorgeous!! It is so family oriented here. And oh the tree's!! The fishing, the mountain, the birds. Magnificant. The winters stink though. It rains all the time, a steady drizzle. Gets dark at 4PM. Dont see the sun at all. Rains usually start in October, and let up in April. No one has AC here either!! That shocked me when I first got here. We just bought a house in 8/99, and we have been pretty busy with it. It's on a cul-de-sac, approx. .40 acre. Was owned by a couple who went throught the same as us (almost). She went to school while he was in the army, then they agreed to have him get out and finish a year or so to get his teaching certificate while she supported the family.. Only prob was she met some one at work and fell in love. Horrible part was that it was a woman. She left her two kids, and divorced her husband for another woman. And moved to CA!!!So he struggled here for awhile, then listed it and moved back home;of all places Texas too. So the house needed alot of cosmetic work. Yard has extensive garden beds which hadnt been weeded in quite a few years. We had 15tons of dirt hauled in, and 15 tons of landscaping rock too. Enjoyed every minute. Had always wanted to plant fruit trees for the kids, we planted two appled trees. Converted a garden shed into a clubhouse, complete with a window we installed, french doors, carpet and paneling. The kids painted the paneling beige, and with their own choice of colored paint drew on the walls and made handprints. We even laid a brick path around the diameter of the "house." <P>Damm it will be so hard to leave that all behind. The kids have movved so much and this is the first house that was "ours" and the first that we resided in more than 18 months!! So in a way I am glad he wants to keep it.<P>OK Dara enough rambling!!<P>I too feel the same as you about the future with your wife. Yes I want nothing more than him right now. I have told him there will never be another man for me. That my heart is his. I would wait for him forever. But ya know what? I am growing. I am learning. I'm even beginning to like myself!! I know I dont want to be alone forever. He asked me if I would wait twenty years for him!! And I said YES!! (A couple months back) More recently I told him I will wait, but NOT twenty years! I couldnt at the time understand why he asked twenty years.. Now I see that he still doesnt believe that I love him.<P>Not too much happened last night. He had grass stains on his butt, and I asked him if he had a picnic at school or something. (Envisioning him and her on a plaid blanket, gazing into each others eyes). Blech Blech Blech! Anyways, we werent fighting or anything. The subject his realtionship with her was brought up. You know what??? !!!<BR>He said he IS NOT HAVING AN AFFAIR!!! Has done nothing wrong. I told him the fact that he hid their relationship from me for seven months, along with the paranoia he has about me touching his cell phone, how he became enraged when I told him I would call her H, and the simple fact that he is leaving me tells the truth. Still denied it. I told him there does NOT have to be sex to be an affair. Ask any marraige counselor, pastor, reference the Bible, any other married couple or anybody that knows any thing about marraige. They will all say its an affair. Not to mention the fact that you spend more time talking to her in one day than me in a month tells alot!!<P>For me it is becoming easier and easier to not like who he is becoming. I know I played a significant part of this divorce, but jeez!! He is not the man he thinks, and had me thinking he is cracked up to be!!<P>And it really pisses me off for him to think that he is not having affair. I never had a chance to work things out with him. He quit talking to me when he started school. I thought it was because he was focusing on school. Wrong!! He has shared his innermost feelings of our marraige, me and himself to her. And she just encouraged him (so he says) that he deserves better than me. He had his mind made up when he told me. Never gave me a chance to hear why he was so unhappy, to give us an oppurtunity to talk. He already did all of his"exploring our marraige, and whether it was fixable" with her.<P>Oh Bill I am sorry I have said soo much. Alot of venting huh? It is so wonderful to come here, and share "my story" with people who care to listen. And have solid advice to offer. And know oh so well the pain it brings us. <P>Hope to hear from ya tomorrow. Gotta work again. Sorry again for the rambling.<P>(((((For all of us here)))))<P>Dara

Dara<BR>I spent quite a bit of time yesterday in deep thought. For hours and hours I was concentrating on the last 12 years. Trying to figure out what the hell went wrong. Then I was distracted and my mind threw me back into my mid teens. Oh the memories there. I remembered the person that I was. I was one of the most popular kids in school. I was the class clown. I was also someone that everyone came to for advise. I’m not that anymore. Why? Where did I go? I called up my best friend in whole wide world Tony. Tony will always be my best friend, he and I grew up together. We had some really good times. Over the past 12 years we have slowly drifted apart. But when one of us needs the phone rings. We talked about my current situation, reflected on the past, and mutually agreed that we both wanted a closer relationship. Neither of us has found anyone like the other since we left high school. After hanging up the phone and wiping away some tears I did some more thinking and looking at myself. <P>Maybe I was a little harsh on myself earlier thinking that I was totally changed. At work, I have fun and keep those around me laughing. At work, people seek me out for professional and personal advice. With my children, when Lisa is not around, we have a blast. When my children need advice they come to me and make sure that Lisa is not there. There are times when they do seek Lisa, but those are usually “woman” issues. My oldest is budding and starting to get hair in odd places and she loves to show them off to her mom. There are some things that a dad doesn’t need to hear about. Well I called my mom and told her what I was discovering. She said that she’s seen it all along. Her little Billy used to keep the whole family rolling and was the funniest person to be around. Since he got married, that side of him rarely comes out to play. I called one of my sisters. I didn’t even finish the first sentence and she said that she knew and started reminding me of all of the good times her and I had together.<P>Where the hell did I go? After these three phone calls I felt a lot better. There is hope for me. I was fun and happy. I can be that again. I felt all lit up inside. I have a renewed feeling of hope, not for my marriage, but for myself. Now on to the bigger question, I say that I was blindsided when she told me she wanted a divorce. Was I? In the places that I am comfortable I am me, but with her for many years I have been someone else. I have one too many masks and it is time to through one of them away.<P>So she and the girls got home last night around 9. The girls and I had a couple of laughs and shared our days with each other. My smile was from ear to ear. Lisa came upstairs, tried a couple of low shots and nothing would get through. She’d say something mean and I’d say do you want a back rub dear. NO. She’d say something else mean and I’d say would you like to play cards dear. NO. She finally gave up. I was still smiling and it was real. There was no touching or sharing of intimate feelings all night but for the first time it was OK. I slept like a baby. Am I even close to getting over her, hell no. Would I cut off my right arm to save my marriage, hell yes. Am I learning to be myself, I hope so.<P>I also have learned that I feel so much better if I am giving love, even if it is not taken. My bitterness is leaving. Lisa would you like me to hold you tonight, HELL NO. Okay, sweat dreams honey, I love you. I feel OK even though I’ve just been rejected. WOW! I didn’t think that I had that much to say about one subject. Thank you for listening.<P>Sweat revenge. I have no idea what that is about. I think that her guilt is showing through in that statement. It is saying “If I can keep hurting this person and make our lives miserable I will believe that we should divorce, because our lives are miserable”. I have allowed her to do this. Not anymore. I am at peace with the Lord and I am learning to be at peace with myself.<P>“Bill I am not happy and I don’t think that I can ever be happy married to anyone. I am not in-love with you and I don’t think that I ever have been. I don’t think that I know how to love. You are a great husband and a wonderful father”, says Lisa. Maybe I could check her library card and see if she checked out “Sam’s Secret Code Book”. In my opinion, her words are just stroking her guilt and ego in the moment. If she can convince herself of these things then she can walk away with less pain. She has pretty much said that everything is my fault and that I’m a bad person. She has kicked my self-esteem way down. But I’ve let her do this and always been able to pick up all of my shattered pieces and put them back together. Not anymore. Instead of letting her kick me around I will focus on me. I know that I am a worthwhile individual. I am smart, funny, fit, confident, mentally tough, and if all else fails I can always fall back on my looks. I’ve always said with my good looks and $.59 I can get a cup of coffee at McDonalds. <P>I hear ya on the comfort thing. After 9 years of marriage I was in top physical shape and I started letting it go. I went from a lean 165 to a soft 207. Can you say BEER GUT. I went from size 32 pant to 36. Felt like crap looked like crap. Now 160, not in great shape but working on it I look better and I feel better. Now please don’t misunderstand anything that I have written here. I am not quitting but I am learning acceptance. I realize that the only thing that I can change in this terrible situation is myself. I can offer unconditional love to my children and to my wife. My wife can either accept it or reject it. It’s her loss or gain.<P>Can you say “Big Time Rambleing”.<P>Thank you for listening, hearing, and responding. Since this one is so long, I post another later without all of the serious stuff in it.<P>((((((((((THE WORLD))))))))))<P>Bill<BR><P>------------------<BR>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-

Well now I dont feel so bad about my rambling!!<BR>I too came to a few of those very same conclusions yesterday. I wonder if its just a coping skill to make letting go that little bit easier.<P>I was supposed to work ,but got canceled at three in the AM. Thats one of the downsides to agency work. But!! I get paid twice what most nurses with my education. So, I can make my own schedule too. BUT! I am an emergency relief to fill in, and sometimes their staff nurses take the shift. Which happens about 10% of the time. So now I have the day off. It would be nicer if I werent still working on Aprils mortgage payment. In that situation because Mr. Selfish wouldnt take any time off during kids two week spring break so I could work. Cant fail Microbiology!!<P>I hope this note finds you well.<P>Dara

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LostHusband:<BR><B>Sweat revenge. I have no idea what that is about. I think that her guilt is showing through in that statement. It is saying “If I can keep hurting this person and make our lives miserable I will believe that we should divorce, because our lives are miserable”. I have allowed her to do this. Not anymore. I am at peace with the Lord and I am learning to be at peace with myself.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Bill, I noticed when you first related that conversation that you missed an opportunity to explore this further. You were too busy reacting, I think, to notice that you had an opportunity to get inside your wife's mind a little more and maybe even learn something about yourself. If can handle it emotionally, you might try to draw your wife out a bit when she makes comments like these. Who knows, if she has to think about what she is saying, she just might start to realize how confused she really is.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR><B>“Bill I am not happy and I don’t think that I can ever be happy married to anyone. I am not in-love with you and I don’t think that I ever have been. I don’t think that I know how to love. You are a great husband and a wonderful father”, says Lisa. Maybe I could check her library card and see if she checked out “Sam’s Secret Code Book”. In my opinion, her words are just stroking her guilt and ego in the moment. If she can convince herself of these things then she can walk away with less pain. She has pretty much said that everything is my fault and that I’m a bad person.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Yeah, your wife has to be able to justify her actions to <I>herself</I>, if to no one else. When her feelings conflict with her values, she gets dissonance, and she must alter the "facts" to reduce the conflict. Rationality tends to get stretched to the breaking point in the process.<P>As you are discovering, once you understand this it becomes easier not to take her attacks personally. She is attacking you for her self-protection, since if she <I>didn't</I> blame you, she would have to turn on herself.<P>It's interesting that your wife doesn't think she can be happily married to anyone. (My wife said the same thing to me.) I wonder what makes her think that she could be happily single? What does she think <I>will</I> make her happy? Escaping a burden or a responsibility can bring some measure of <I>relief</I>, but <I>happiness</I> must be generated from the inside.<BR>

I know what you have been going through. <P>Sept. 21, I caught my wife at a hotel with the OM. The second time in 3 years. I told his wife the same day and the OM drops wife to save marriage. My wife does not know if she wants to save marriage, cannot make up her mind. After 2 weeks, wife calls OM to try to start relationship again, he then tells me what she is trying to do. OM wants nothing to do with her. She continues to stay on the fence. Stress levels at home go very high. I plan "A". I get her to spend a week with her mother in FL to help work things out. When she came back, she still did not know if she wanted to work on the marriage. We then have a major meltdown on Oct 23. That was the day she came back from FL. I screamed at her, (I have never done that before) and unloaded my feelings that I had kept inside for over a month. Told her to either go to councoling or get out. She started counseling but she had only done that to buy time to move to FL. On Wend. Nov. 1, while I was at work, she packed her bags and the kids and flew to FL. <P>Up to this point, she was still in her "fog". This is when reality set in. She knew I would get a lawyer and get the kid brought back to NC. We talked some on Fri the 3 and 4+ hours on Sat. 4. We were finally talking the way I wanted from the start. Up to this point, she did not want to talk about anything about our marriage. By Mon night the 6th, she was asking if she could come back home and if we could go to counseling together to improve our marriage. She had spent the whole weekend crying. She and my 8-yr. old told me that mommy cried all weekend.<P>I am not saying that you should have a big fight, but you should be honest to her about your feelings. Tell her that you would like her to make a commitment. Admit to some of your wrongs in the past but tell her that you love her and you want to make this that perfect marriage that she wants. But also let her be free. If she wants out of the marriage, that she needs to go ahead and start moving out. Tell her that you cannot handle waiting until the end of May for her to leave. And yes she may leave, but that may not be bad. She is in the "fog". You currently are still filling her emotional cup. It may be time to let her decision to meet reality. If she does move out, she will then not have you to fill her emotional cup which she will truly miss.<P>Currently, she has been keeping score, which is deadly in a marriage, and using everything she can think of to justify want she wants to do. Let her know what your dream is for your marriage but also let her go. This is one thing I read in Dobsons book called "Love must be Tough" (I think that name is right). She is currently trying to prove why she needs to be free. Reverse it. Let her know she an leave and then suddenly, if she truly believes you have let her go, will start to wonder if she really wanted to be out of the marriage and start to think of all the positive things. I think you have been Planning "A" her for long enough that she can see changes can happen, now it is up to her to decide to try to work it out. Separation and Divorce is not as easy as she currently thinks it is.<P>P.S. If she does move out, she will also see how hard it hurts the kids. That was one of the things that help snap my wife back into reality. Currently, I still have some bad days once in a while but my wife thinks our marriage is doing great.<P>Good luck.....<P><BR> <P>

Thanks for the posts everyone I'll do some responging in about an hour. That's lunch time here at the OK Corral.<P>Bill

Gnome: First of all thanks I didn't have to get out the dictionary .<P>Hind sight I should have explored when I had the opportunity. I brought it up in couselling and just as you concluded she had no explanation. She had no explanations or rationalization for many things. When confronted by the counsellor on issues she focused her anger on me rather than look at herself.<P>I do believe that she is just trying to justify everything in her mind. If she can paint a picture of hell around her then she is justified in getting out of hell.<P>As the days go by the personal attacks are getting easier. I have realized all along that this is not Lisa talking it is some evil twin from another planet. Though it is hard to not let a certain number of the things she says through and it is even harder to take them without reacting. I am getting my strength, just last night, I withstood probably 5 personal attacks. Showing her only a smile and replying with kindness.<P>Thanks for the advice and keep it coming.<P>Hubby:<P>Thanks for joining in. I would love to take some of your advice right now but for many reasons I won't. First I want our children to make it through this school year before we separate. We also do foster care and have had a set of sisters for over a year. Again, want them to make it through the school year. Financially, things will be a lot better in the middle of May. Most importantly, we plan on using divorce mediation and have already agreed on 50/50 joint custody. Sure I would like to have full custody and I have been advised that I would get it. Is it best for the kids? I don't think so. If I kick her out and things get hostile, the court battle will be painfull both mentally and financially.<P>Dara:<P>Oh dear, how do I say this nicely OUR SPOUSES ARE FULL OF SH*&. “And she just encouraged him (so he says) that he deserves better than me.” That is bull****. What cruel words those are to hear, I know I’ve heard them. In my mind I’ve turned them around. I deserve more than what she can offer me. I deserve to be held and get goose bumps as someone caresses me or kisses my ear. I deserve to be loved unconditionally for who I am. I deserve my happiness and not to be at the mercy of a woman who knows that she can crush me at any time with one word, which she often does. I deserve to be able to be me.<P>Now I ask of you, what do you deserve? I am a total stranger to you. I only know of you what you have let me know through your posts. You are a beautiful, loving, caring person. Read back through some of this thread and see some of things you've said about yourself. I have said nothing that you didn't say about yourself. I'll post some more here in a little while. <P><BR>Bill<BR>

Thanks for the encouragement Bill.<P>Yeah, I see these things in myself occasionally. Usually only when I can detach myself from this hell.<P>The issue I face Bill, different than yours, is that he gave so much of himself for so many years. He gave me his heart purely and wholly, and I took it for granted. For many years I have not understood love, even though he gave it freely. It has alot to do with how I was raised. So yeah I do see myself having the capability to love again, to be lovable. But I am left with this huge wall of guilt and pain. I had a chance with him, but never saw it. He just got tired of trying. I have ALOT of remorse. Yes he has been cruel, cold and indifferent; but isnt that what I have been all these years? Maybe not to that extreme, but to him my distance WAS cold and cruel.<P>Last night, in bed I began to tell him again how insecure I felt leaving here, with her around and not being able to show him how much I love him. He said, Dara I cant give you any answers. Can you not see this clearly? Do you need someone else to explain this to you Dara? Do you need a psychologist? Ouch. this coming from the man that DOES NOT believe in counseling. Says it is rediculous, for us to pay someone to listen, only to hear what we SHOULD already know. That he would never go, because he doesnt need someone F***ing with his mind. I took his remark as a serious insult. Like he thoughtI was crazy. All I could do is cry myself to sleep, and withdrawl.<P>Why do I keep trying to share myself with him? When will I learn?<P>I want so badly to get through this, with or without him. To go on with life. I am weary. I want to be loved.<P>Dara

Dara,<P>Today, does find me in good spirits and that “mental distraction” was just what the Doctor ordered. By the way don’t be dissing Kansas or I’ll have to dig up some Texas come backs and if that doesn’t work I’ll pretend your blonde and start an assault on blonde jokes.<P>What is wrong with a beer gut? It took me 29 years to finally achieve the pinnacle of manhood and I displayed my trophy with great pride. Then BOOM (D-Day) guts gone and I have some strange looking 6-pack thingy on my stomach, a lot of crunches over the past 2 months.<P>Your talking about your house really says a lot about you and it will be hard to leave it behind. Just think if he keeps, when the fog lifts, he’ll have a constant reminder of what was and what should have been.<P>As I said earlier, the person at my house is not my wife. She is some alien from another planet and I do not like that person. Sure, at all times, I love my wife but as long as the alien is there my feelings of love are being changed to other feelings. Will the alien ever leave? I don’t know she may turn into the alien. I can see her choosing to do so when she comes out of the fog and realizes what she doesn’t have.<P>Don’t ever feel bad about venting it helps you release your frustration and it also helps people on the other end take their minds off of their problems.<P>Mr. Selfish . Do I detect a wee bit of sarcasm in that statement. My wife has said that she is being very selfish right now. I tend to use a five letter word to describe it.<P>Do you watch ER? Pretty good episode last night.<P>Today is the first day that I’m going to start to get to know myself. After to work I’m going to spend some time by myself. Now I just have to figure out what to do. In the last twelve years, I haven’t done anything for me or with me. I’m kinda lost. Thinking about a movie or a walk in the mall. I wish I had my motorcycle running, I’d take a long ride.<P>Well anyway c ya L8r<P>Bill<P>“Why do I keep trying to share myself with him? When will I learn? <BR>I want so badly to get through this, with or without him. To go on with life. I am weary. I want to be loved. “<BR>Just getting ready to post and saw this. DARA, pull your boot straps up. I fully understand the weary feeling so I say do not walk this journey alone. The path is so much easier when you are walking with company. You are loved. I am sure that there are three people that live with you that love you very much and I don’t want to hear “That’s Different”. Take the love wherever you can get it. Has your family been supportive? Plus look at all the people of this board. I don’t want to sound to mushy (SP) but I love a lot of people on this board and I feel loved when I come here. I get honesty, support, laughter, tears, hope, prayers, friendship, and everything else that defines love. The only thing that I can’t get here is physical.<P>Why do you keep trying? You are the only who can answer that and you are the only one who will learn.<P>I’ll be here all day. Ask and you shall receive.<P>((((DARA))))<P>Bill<BR><P>------------------<BR>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-

Pretty soon people will be getting mad that we are hogging up this board talking back and forth!!<P>So bring it on! Bring on the Texas jokes already. They'll fly right by me, cause I was born in Michigan, raised eight years there. They will fly right past and land on him!!<P>ha-ha-ha-ha!!<P>So you got a night out on the town eh? If you were a woman I would tell ya to do what I did. He ticked me off one night, so I split and went to the movies, saw the new George Clooney movie (what was the name again? Too busy looking at the man), went to Victoria's Secret, and bought myself a dozen roses. Came home at 10pm. He didnt say much, but when we went to bed boy did he pay attention to me. Was jealous!! It felt good! Yeah I do have an evil side. Or you could go to the jewelry store with her credit card, and buy yourself some expensive jewelry. JK.<P>You could go out to eat, but then its no fun eating alone is it? Get a massage. Go to the park and sit by the water.<P>Thanks for "pulling up my boot straps". Makes me laugh. What boot straps? I dont see any here!!<P>Aughh. It's a contemplative day, ya know?<P>Dara

One thing I've never understood is talk about "I deserve this" or "you deserve that". For one thing, as a Christian, I don't <I>want</I> what I deserve. For another, a focus on what's deserved strikes me as coming awfully close to a presumption that life is fair. It's not.<P>I can understand paying attention to what's wanted and needed. But not what's deserved. Who has the right to make that evaluation anyway?<BR>

Great point Gnome. As a christian myself, I dont want what I ultimately deserve either. <P>What I want, and need are seperate issues. I want to be loved for me, who I am now. Not my past. What I can offer now, not my history. But from H eye's, it is difficult to see me for who I am. He see's in me our past. So I still hold on to hope that he will want me after he has a time to miss me. But it may take a few years. Can I wait? I dont know. YES, I do love him. But I am not a martyr.<P>I do have needs to be valued, and loved. To be accepted. And he will NOT accept me now, on any front;not even friendship.<P>I read the letters he has written me over the years, and how expressive he was in sharing his love. I didnt have those same feelings. He enjoyed giving himself to me. It feels so good to love, and be accepted, and loved back.<P>I miss being loved.<P>Dara<P>PS. Selfish post, I know. Sorry.

Gnome:<P>I DESERVE to explain myself. I guess the "I deserve" comes from the selfish side of me. It should be stated as "I want or I desire". I'm focusing on me right now so will have to excuse me for selfishness for awhile. <P>Dara:<P>Good didn't really have any Texas jokes. Anyway you know what Iowa stands for? Idiot Out Wondering Around. If I remember correctly from history class wasn't Michigan founded by people from Wisconsin who got lost trying to find there way back home in Iowa. I think that's correct.<P>I love Geoge Clooney. Perfect Storm was awesome. The way that he and Juliana Margolis interacted on ER was magical. The town I work in has a population of 40,000 so there is not a lot of choice of what to do. So do you think if I go to Victoria Secret that I can talk anyone in to trying stuff on. I'm thinking of walking the mall. Browsing for clothes that I can't buy. Might take in a movie, don't know what's showing yet. Eat Alone. Ever seen Hope Floats! Great movie, harry connick did a wonderful job, maybe I can act misterious.<P>It's just gonna be kinda fun. Might even spend some time on the phone and just relax.<P>Bill

"Oceans will rise,<BR> Cities will fall,<BR> But hope floats."<P>My attempt at humor. That was the theme from that meteor movie with Tea Leoni. Forgot the name. Yeah I liked "hope floats", but I forgot what its about.<P>Good luck at finding someone to model for ya at Victoria's Secret. You like George Clooney too? And what tree do you swing from Bill? LOL. Nope havent seen it in awhile. Not really worth it since the man left. Plus I cut off our cable this spring. Kids need to be outside, doing kid stuff, not watching TV all the time. I dont really watch it too much, so it wasnt worth the bill.<P>I think the reason I am feeling so darn contemplative is that I've got music match jukebox set to country music. Heard the Garth song, "to make you feel my love" and kinda lost it. Am I going crazy? Or are all these emotions 'normal'?<P>as to your question earlier, whether I have support from my family, kinda yes and no. Dad is saying its over, face it, push for what you can get. Mom, who was left by her dad at 9yo, came home from school and his bags were packed, she was sent to her room till the next day, and never saw him again for 6 years. She's pissed at Rick, and believes in doing it for the kids. I believe that as well, to a point. She has told him just what I have said to him in moments of anger. That he is no different from every other selfish SOB out there. Her mom also sunk into depression after her dad left, and my mom took over the house and care of her two brothers while her ma sunk DEEP into alcoholism. Grandma never recovered from that disease;it killed her at 62. His mom has been my lighthouse, safe refuge. Problem is, she is 72, diabetic, post-amputee, and probly wont be around as long as I want her to be. <P>So what do you mean by ask and you shall recieve? Come take over the alien who has occupied Richards body!!<P>Dara <BR>

Dara,<P>Yes I like George Clooney, Michael Peterson, & even Clint Black. My wife has always said that if we ever got divorced I would turn gay. I am not gay . I’m just in touch with my feminine side. I was swinging from a tall oak tree but lately it’s more like a weeping willow. Since we have been married I have cooked 90% of our meals. I enjoy cooking and baking. Maybe because I like to eat. Not because I’m gay. I clean house and do laundry. Maybe because I like a clean house and clean clothes. Not because I’m gay. <P>I am a huge country music fan but at this point in my life I can’t listen to it. I can’t even listen to the radio. I went to Napster and downloaded a bunch of 80’s rock and that’s what I’ve been listening to. Yes those emotions are normal or else we’re both crazy. When I hear a good song like “to make you feel my love” I just break down. For a long time I’ve blamed her for that but the blame is on me. Only I can control my emotions.<P>Ask and you shall receive. You were saying that you wanted love and I was telling you that you have love. Don’t close your eyes to that. You may not have all aspects of love right now (i.e. physical) but you have every other type if you accept it. You have asked, you have received, make sure you see that. I remember a post a couple of weeks ago that had this saying in it “I asked God to send me His friend… He sent you!” Look around has He sent you a friend. He sent me one.<P>Richard is the only one that can “take over his alien”. Believe me, if I could come there and kick out the alien I would. I would do it for a profession saving millions of people from pain. Just try to be happy with yourself. That way if the “alien leaves” you are happy and if it doesn’t your happy.<P>Bill<P>PS. Army joke. The only thing that comes from Texas is steers and queers. Does you husband have any horns?<P>------------------<BR>-There are none so blind as those who refuse to see!-

Conversation Getting Deep. Time Out. Joke of the Day:<P>An Amish woman and her daughter were riding in an old pen buggy one cold, blistering January day.<BR>The daughter said to the mother, "My hands are freezing cold."<P>The mother replied, "Put your hands between your legs. The body heat will warm them up."<P>So the daughter did, and her hands warmed up. The next day, the daughter was riding in the buggy with her boyfriend.<P>The boyfriend said, "My hands are freezing cold." The daughter replied, "Put them between my legs, they'll warm up."<P>The next day, the boyfriend was driving in the buggy with the daughter again.<P>He said, "My nose is freezing cold."<P>The daughter replied, "Put it between my legs. It will warm up."<P>He did, and his nose warmed up. The next day, the boyfriend was yet again driving with the daughter and he said, "My penis is frozen solid."<P>The next day, the daughter is driving in the buggy with her mother, and she says to her mother, "Have you ever heard of a penis?"<P>The slightly concerned mother says, "Sure, why do you ask?"<P>The daughter says, "Well, they make one hell of a mess when they thaw out!!!!"<P>Hope this doesn't offend anyone. I thought it was pretty funny myself.<P>Bill<BR>

Oooooooooohhhhhhh YUCK!!<P>Richard just came home with the little one who goes to on campus childcare. I asked Richie, did you take a nap? I was trying to ma but dad walked in with Anna's mom. He told me some time ago that dad took Anna, and her mom in "dad's car" to the park. Way before I knew. Rick just denied it. I blew it off. <P>So here I am fuming with jealousy. And there he is, Mr. Goodguy, helping the neighbor unload a truck full of soil. If they only knew what a [censored] he has been. Leaving his family. "Finding himself." At the xpense of our kid's mental well-being.<P>He wants everyone to think he is such a good guy. Selfish [censored].<P>OOOOPS!<P>Did sweet little Dara let all that out?<P>Sorry, Bill, I need to leave your post alone!!

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Learning as I go:<BR><B>Sorry, Bill, I need to leave your post alone!!</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Confused, what does this mean?<P>I think that you need to call Ghostbusters. Truly sorry that you have to go though this today. Here if you need to talk or should I say type.<P>Bill<P><p>[This message has been edited by LostHusband (edited April 27, 2001).]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LostHusband:<BR><B> Confused, what does this mean?<P>Bill<P></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><BR>I am 'taking over' your post!!<P>Sorry to bug ya so much!!<P>Dara<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Learning as I go:<BR><B> <BR>I am 'taking over' your post!!<P>Sorry to bug ya so much!!<P>Dara</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Your not bugging me, except the cheap shot at Dorothy. Okay maybe when you hinted that I was gay. I AM NOT GAY. This is not my post, it's the communities post. I am just here more often than not. <P>I can truly feel your pain right now. If it helps any think of green shag carpet. It worked for me once. <P>There are so many ups and downs on this ride. It really does suck. You picked me up when I was at a real down point. If I can do the same please let me know. <P>Please don't take this wrong, but if you need to talk and I mean talk, I have an 800#. <P>Be strong dear, reach down and pull those sandle buckles up. Don't give that [censored] the reaction that he wants.<P>Praying for ya.<P>Bill<P>