I have been married for 5 years. I have found my husband in a series of severe lies causing or marrital problems. Giving lots of changes, however just caught him in another lie (financially affected). HELP!..need to understand why

ALICE - Does Kauai know the rules?<p>Kauai - <br>Thats not very nice NOR sympathetic. Your here too for "some" reason and we aren't calling you stupid. <p>[This message has been edited by Cndy (edited 02-26-99).]

Thanks, cndy for coming to my defense. Obviously, Kauai doesn't care to know the full story. Kauai doesn't seem to understand that when you are married, you commit to go thru the hard times together...working thru them is the main goal....not giving up on each other. Trying to understand why is the first response and then finding out a little about the upbringing has alot to do with how we handle things as an adult. Working together actually does pay off if the two are willing to sincerely work on the underlying problems that cause this terrible habit.....I am far from "stupid", I am however, a very caring person that happens to love my husband and am trying to understand the reasons so that we can work thru this problem to resolve it...not give up!

Benlied - <br>Your quite welcome. I know none of us here are here to be told we're stupid. You are right to be committed and try to make your marriage work. Take it from one who's been there. My husband was worse than just a liar (which he was) - he was an extremely heavy drinker, a womanizer, and brought me down so far mentally it wasn't funny. I gave up on him. I listened to people tell me how stupid I was too (including a counselor) and I divorced him. He didn't want it - but I divorced him anyway. I have seen the hurt it has caused our now (15 and 11) year old boys - though we have grown to be friends and they share quite a good life with us and him - it put them through living hell and they want their family together. He has been a changed man for a few years now. They CAN change. They DO change - if they want to. I wouldn't take abuse or anything - but I would work on that marriage with everything you have as long as you can. We all have problems in our lives and we need to learn how to confront, face, and solve those problems. Good luck to you and your husband.

Cndy,<br>Seems we have alot in common..sort of.<br>I was raised in an alcholic family, married into one unknowingly (1st marriage) - my 1st husband wasn't an alcoholic, however his mother was....which truly does impact the family members. I can only sympathize with you for what you've been through. It truly takes a strong person to realize that it, in fact was not a healthy relationship (the alcoholic inviroment) for you or your family. Although, I truly understand the desire to want to stay to work through it....you are absolutely correct...they must want to change! If not, there is no way you can stick it out with them...the cycle will continue. Sometimes it takes stepping away from their problem (after you have exhausted all your efforts in assisting) and allowing them to fall on their own and pray that they are able to see the direction their life is heading and the consequences that have come out of that direction he chose. In your case, it sounds like your ex-husband is doing just that and that is a "BIG" accomplishment in its self! It has an enormous impact on the children, I'm sure. Even though, I'm too familiar with the impact the alcoholic behavior has on the family and the children...now with communication, action and family contact from their father...the children can see - that in fact everyone is human and we do make errors in life..but instead of continuing to fall, we can pick ourselves back up and get back on the right path. I guess thats what I would want my child to know. As far as you are concerned with you finally deciding to leave your husband, there shouldn't be any guilt what so ever and your children will see that if they haven't already. You stuck it out, trying to work through it. However, couldn't do it alone, and he wasn't ready to take a look at himself and attempt to put his life back together and deal head on with his alcoholic problem. For that, you can't be blamed. You had a mother responsibility to your children to provide a healthy enviroment for them, with or without your husband...and to that I congratulate you for doing what you did. I know that it wasn't easy and I know that their were alot of struggle and hard times - but you made it! All these struggles we go thru reflect a positive note in our children - because they see the correct path you are taking to correct a problem. They learn how to deal with problems head on (problem solving) instead of running from them or turning to drugs, alcohol, etc. For that, I think very highly of you and commend you for your actions. As for now, what a wonderful thing that your ex-husband has truly got his act together and is now into his family. That is wonderful. All I can say is keep up the communication with the kids, informing them of the continued effort to correct what ever problems did occur and that their dad is working on his problem. Sometimes it requires for someone to work on their problems alone (when they are having a hard time admitting to themselves that they, in fact have a problem). And maybe, you never know, if it is meant to be, daddy will be a part of the family again...the way it use to be...but better due to the problem being handled - or if not, then maybe daddy will continue to be part of the family - at a distance from mommy, but included in the family - and knowing it was a very hard lesson to learn, but well learned thru experience! I hope I didn't hit any nerves, but I feel very strongly in this area....coming from an alcoholic family upbringing.....it was difficult. But I applaude you with your actions. Good luck with your family and your goals for working together. Cazper

Dear Benlied22manyxs,<br>My first marriage of 13 years came to an end because of the same problem. We received professional help. I was warned by the doctor that my husband's problem took years to get to the point it was and would take years to correct and only if he realized he had a problem.The drug Lithium was prescribed but after one week husband pretended to take it by washing two pills a day down the sink.It came out in his sessions that he had lied to his parents since he was a little boy, never getting caught.<br>He had went as far as to take out a bank loan telling the teller I was out in the car sick, going out to car signing my name to documents and taking paper back in. I knew nothing of the bank loans, credit cards in my name and nine judgements on our home.He would fake telephone calls, pretending to talk when no one was on the other end to prove he hadn't lied about something, when he had. Never telling the truth and always trying to cover it up. After two years of this I requested we seperated to show him how serious this problem was. He never changed. Divorced and six years later he can't hold down a steady job because of never being able to tell the truth.Marriages can over come these types of problems but it takes time and lots of love. <p>[This message has been edited by denise_1 (edited 03-05-99).]<p>[This message has been edited by denise_1 (edited 03-05-99).]

Denise,<br>Thank you for your response. We have already been to counseling (was seperated for 7 months - 2 years ago due to an enormous amount of information that exploded - he couldn't continue to cover up the big lie with the little lies). The counselor told my husband he was a habitual lier (my husband didn't like the counselor's diagnosis and refused to go back). I now know that my husband's problems stem from his child hood, his father was a material man, felt money made the individual. This has been passed to my husband. He feels that he must lie about how much he makes because of the self worth, he feels money makes him a better person. Although in his eyes, he feels that this is perfectly ok, he doesn't see the whole picture when doing this. He doesn't see that if you lie, it comes back to haunt you tri-fold. In money cases, even more so and it hurts many other individuals involved. He would tell me he recieved raises, when in fact he did not. As I grew with my company, he felt inferior and wanted to show me that he too could support our family more - thus lieing about a raise here and there. Well, needless to say the outcome to that one was when I put together a yearly budget to see where our $ was going so that we could really start saving money for our home. Bingo!...monney just wasnt' there to back up what I had put down as figures on paper. This lead me to ask for his paycheck and the rest was history. He sobbed (in which I believe all habitual liers can do on a whim - I am trying not to get so sarcastic, however if you've lived this game...it's hard to do at times). I sat down with him and told him, we are to be a team, no matter how much I make vs. his income....it doesn't make your worth. Money is not the thing that makes you a person. It's affected his income taxes, cause he wanted to be able to bring home the "most" so that he could show the family he could help in providing and so on ...........<br>Therefore, it truly does have an IMPACT on both parties involved. I am truly trying to understand him, truly trying to put my trust back in him, but it is very hard. He doesn't seem to understand why I cannot believe him. He feels that I should just forget about the past, sounds so easy doesn't it? But we know that is impossible. Everyone that has been through even the smallest of lies with a friend, lover, sister, brother, etc. cannot fully trust that individual in a wink of an eye the next time. You will always have that subconcious person talking to you saying, "Is this a lie too". It's human nature, once you've been decieved, you second guess from there on until the other person builds the trust back up. <br>I have a hard time explaining this to him...that he is the one that broke the trust between us and he must be the one to attempt to re-build it. Instead he feels that I should just forget about it and move on, trusting him again. It just doesn't work that way.<br>There are times when I look back on the things that have occurred and my stomach turns. I wonder if I am doing the right thing in staying in this relationship. I wonder if he has lied to me about something else and I just haven't found it out yet. I worry. This does have an impact in our relationship, he gets angry more so. I found a pattern, looking back when all the lies were taking place, he would get aggitated more so if asked certain questions that were related to his lies (although I didn't know at the time there was lies). I often wondered why he would get so irrate, this always lead to an arguement and he would make it look like it was all me (that started the argument). Now, I know that he was so consumed with guilt about all the lies and that he had to continue to feed into the big lie to cover it up with little lies that it was causing him to get angry inside. This anger he turned towards me, finding it easier to blame someone else than actually look at the real picture. Thus, the arguments...that I might say were very heartbreaking - a waste of time and energy. So now, whenever he has these same angry outbursts or gets moody....I wonder - what is he trying to hide this time.<br>I do ask myself (like right now) several times: Should I stay in this relationship? I don't know if I believe this is going to truly work. I am still trying, however I am getting weary of the struggle. I turn to alot of thought and prayer. I truly believe two people that commit themselves to each other should be committed completely - every marriage vow sacred! True, we are humans, and we make mistakes - however, we also should learn from our mistakes and when we make one, learn from it, apologize and do not let it happen again! For what is an apology if you truly do not sincerely mean it nor intend to correct your actions so that you do not make the same mistake(s).<br>Thanks again, for your response. You have given more to think about. Cazper (benlied22manyxs)

Walk away. If kids are involved (sounds like they are) all the more reason. Tell them that he's a fool, and get the hell away from this guy.<p>It's too late for him to change.<p>Your life doesn't need to be like this.

Dear Benlied22manyxs,<br>As I said in my first response, my marriage ended. I have to agree with 40smale's response. I had two children and saw the influence their father had. The children learned very quickly to lie. In some cases the father would tell them to lie, again to cover up another lie. As I look back I never wondered if I did the right thing. I put our children first.We were seperated for two years before divorce proceedings began (he filed). During that time I made it very clear he could stop by and visit the children,take them to stay with his parents on weekends, any time school was out.I did not date or go out for two years, this was my way to give him time to change and make up to the children and I for what he had done.In this case I wasted another two years.He didn't visit with the children or take responsibility for the children for 18 months. He wouldn't pay child support forcing me to take action after all those months.I felt that maybe the love he said he had for me was a lie too. He became engaged to another women within several months of seperation.I couldn't believe that a man I was married to for 13 years could fall out of love so quickly. Before you invest more time please ask yourself why. Try to sort out the truth from the lies. If you can take it give him more time but if children are involved you may be hurting them for life. <br>

I too have lied to my spouse, only my lie is a bit bizarre and it has created a monster. Heres what happened. 15 years ago my spouse was sure that was having an affair, and so instead of trying to defend my honor I told him he was absolutely right, It is all so tiring to try to convince someone that you are true to them. And so consequently everytime I have had any kind of interaction with ANYONE, he assumes that I am having an affair, Male or Female alike, because I keep agreeing with him just so he will leave me alone. So now it has finally come to a head, he is always accussing and I am always trying to defend. If we were to go to counsiling he would say that I am a liar, just so I could play the victom, and on and on it goes. I have grown so far away from him that I cant even stand to touch him and will do what ever I have to to avoid him always. I dont want to live like this anymore. I have 2 kids whom he addores and I refuse to ruin their lives. Help Me please. what am I to do Now that I have created this horrible monster.

I too have lied to my spouse, only my lie is a bit bizarre and it has created a monster. Heres what happened. 15 years ago my spouse was sure that was having an affair, and so instead of trying to defend my honor I told him he was absolutely right, It is all so tiring to try to convince someone that you are true to them. And so consequently everytime I have had any kind of interaction with ANYONE, he assumes that I am having an affair, Male or Female alike, because I keep agreeing with him just so he will leave me alone. So now it has finally come to a head, he is always accussing and I am always trying to defend. If we were to go to counsiling he would say that I am a liar, just so I could play the victom, and on and on it goes. I have grown so far away from him that I cant even stand to touch him and will do what ever I have to to avoid him always. I dont want to live like this anymore. I have 2 kids whom he addores and I refuse to ruin their lives. Help Me please. what am I to do Now that I have created this horrible monster.

Just a word of caution here regarding lies and liars. Its very strange that I say this because my wife was one who insisted she DOES NOT LIE. I caution anyone from saying such a thing. Thats like saying I WOULD NEVER HAVE AN AFFAIR. You cannot say that. If you accept my premise then we all can lie under the right circumstances. Its just that some require "less" circumstances than others. In one of my counciling meetings my wife called me a liar over something I said. She too had claimed that I was a liar. The councilor pointed out that in that instance I was not lying, but rather expressing my opinion which differed from hers. While lies did exist, sometimes it was perspective. When a person feels as strong as my wife as to say I DO NOT LIE, they will find lies and deceit in everything. If Im off base Im sorry.

Just a word of caution here regarding lies and liars. Its very strange that I say this because my wife was one who insisted she DOES NOT LIE. I caution anyone from saying such a thing. Thats like saying I WOULD NEVER HAVE AN AFFAIR. You cannot say that. If you accept my premise then we all can lie under the right circumstances. Its just that some require "less" circumstances than others. In one of my counciling meetings my wife called me a liar over something I said. She too had claimed that I was a liar. The councilor pointed out that in that instance I was not lying, but rather expressing my opinion which differed from hers. While lies did exist, sometimes it was perspective. When a person feels as strong as my wife as to say I DO NOT LIE, they will find lies and deceit in everything. If Im off base Im sorry.

VJP and Progmatic:<BR>Thank you for your input, however I have a few concerns about your response. VJP, I'm not sure I understand your lies to your husband (it's rather hard to understand the intent...you being the liar and I being on the other end, the lied to). My prespective from your reply was that you are very loyal to your husband, however he believes that you have had affairs and instead of standing up for yourself..you just allowed him to continue to feel that you've been unfaithful to their relationship. I don't understand this way of thinking. The consequenses to telling someone a lie (even though you did not do it) are "SO Many" and for so many years. I feel you should have simply told your husband upon the occurance that you haven't been unfaithful (if indeed, that is true). I'm not sure I understand why you would even intertain that type of lie......due to the many impacts this lie would have..it not only changes your whole relationship, your husband now no longer can trust you...he is feeling unloved, unsure of if he even knows the person he has married and vowed to stay with thru thick and thin for life. I'm sure he is not even able to give you love, in the way he has in the past. You've caused pain, for no reason. If in fact, you truly haven't been having an affair -why on earth would you lie to him...and agree with his acqusations when you say they never occurred. Why wouldn't you validate to your husband that in fact, he is the only one...and no-one else has ever been in the picture. Instead, to stop the hassle of listening to your husband put blame on you for an affair...you agree with him to shut him up??????????? Am I correct in how I am reading your message?<BR>Programatic: I understand what you are saying regarding how individuals see things differently, however - there is nothing to see different when it comes to a "LIE". It is simply decietful, wasteful, and only is meant to cause pain...for that is all it causes, is distrust, and pain...no matter how small the lie appeared...as with VJP...it shows how a simply lie to stop nagging has grown into a LARGE lie, using several little lies to cover up on simple lie that could have been avoided with the simple truth. Taking time to explain what has really occurred, taking ownership for choosing the wrong path, and admitting it and sincerely taking steps to correct it...only reflects to your partner that you are sincere and care about the direction of your relationship. I am currently going thru a counseling plan and can honestly say, I don't know if I will remain with my husband. I know that I am not in any condition, at this time, to make the decision to leave. I need to concentrate on myself, what I am feeling and why..and work thru that first to become strong in what I expect out of our relationship. When I have this together and feel I am on stronger ground with myself..I can approach my spouse with my plan of what I will need to stay with him, and what my expectations are so that we might be able to put back the pieces (it will never be the same..I will never fully trust him again, I will never have the feelings I felt for him as before as feeling I truly knew him as a soul mate, etc.) but what we can do is work together to try to build a new ...he may not like the expecations that are put in front of him...because he will have to really look at his actions and their outcomes that it has caused. We will have to see...for now.. I am working on me...to make me stronger for when that time comes so that I will be able to handle any outcome. I truly want my relationship to work.....I believe we are all human ( and yes, all of us has told a white lie from time to time, however, I can truly say I have "NEVER" told such a lie that would have the impact as what I've lived. I view a white lie as taking someone else's feelings into consideration,ie: does this outfit make me look fat?, is my hair styled ok? (however, I have always been one to tell it like it is....that's why my friends know I would tell the truth, and they come to me with these silly questions)....A lie always comes back to haunt.......it's not worth it for the liar or the person lied to (or other family members such as children...who look at their parents as role models). Think about it, really which is the easier path? Telling the truth and facing the consequences head on.....or telling so many little lies to cover up the one lie that you make your self miserable, hurt the people around you when it all comes tumbling down around you, AND IT DOES COME BACK AT YOU ....IT DOES COME TUMBLING DOWN ON YOU!!!!! VPJ: I think you should sit down and pour it all out....be sincere, honest and work thru the wall of lies you have built...that is the only way to make it better.....the outcome might not be good, you may lose your relationship, but that is the consequences sometimes that come out of deciet...choosing the wrong instead of the right. It may be that your able to work things out....I wish you the best. I hope that this is not taken the wrong way, certainly I am not one to judge....I am going thru my own hell....trying to pick up the pieces within myself....so that I can look at my relationship to see if it's something I wish to continue.......I am on the other side from you VPJ......I only wish I could understand why you felt you had to lie...instead of be truthful. I hope that I have given you a better understanding of the pain that is caused to the person you lie to.<BR>It's a very deep pain..with many faucets of different cut pieces....it's not only about the "lie"....it goes much deeper..the trust factor is strongly involved.....causing destruction in the basic foundation of what makes a relationship. Good luck

I have read your response and yes I know that I have caused the problem to begin with by allowing him to believe that I have been unfaithful, yet I never saw any way out of all the accusations. Do you know what it feels like to be falsely accused of something every time you turn around? Some how I doubt it. I have never ever been unfaithful to him <BR>nor have I ever desired to be. I feel I have been nothing but human. Your pain goes far deeper then my own and I believe that I have entered the wrong page of questions, but I needed to hear the advise of others, on this subject matter. I think with time it can eventually heal all wounds yet it is such a difficult thing to go through. This is the closest I have ever come to accepting responsibility for my own actions, I want to tell him these things yet I know that it is to late for him to understand why I said what I said, and I know that he will still consider me to be a big liar. What a disaster I Have caused in my own life, and I have no one but my self to blame. I suppose there is no help for us<BR>Trust is an interesting thing, when for 15+ years I have just taken it for granted, and I never question anything that is being done by him. What a peculiar human trait this is.<BR>thanks for listening.<BR>vjf

VJF..<BR>I don't think that yours is a wasted case.<BR>I think that if I was in his shoes, I would still want to hear the "TRUTH", no matter how much time and hurt it has wasted or caused. It is just like the saying...it's never too late to correct a problem....I think you owe it to your husband. Try writing down why you lied to your husband...the reasons for why you honestly felt you couldn't explain to your husband that you have never been unfaithful..think about it..I mean, surely, if I was in his place, I'd much rather hear my partner say no, I have never, would never even think about being unfaithful. Sounds like to me that he may have some issues from his past that leads him to not trust...not necessarily from your actions, but maybe somewhere in his past he found it hard to believe or trust others and maybe he is putting those feelings off on you, which is not fair. Give it a try and talk to your husband. It really is not too late.....to atleast let the truth finally come out and give explainations for your actions whatever the outcome maybe. Good luck!

Thanks for your words of wisdom, I only wish it were so easy. Who knows some day I will, get the backbone to do so, because I do love him very much, I just wish so bad that he did not feel the way he does. Oh well time will tell