I guess I don't know why it took me so long, mainly a fear that he would accept it (which is exactly the way it went). I can't deny that I don't love him, I do unconditionally, but at this point it comes down to me self-destructing trying to please him or leaving. I can't quite pin-point what happened. We've been together for almost 8 years and the last two have been hell for me and him. We were indestructable in the beginning, kind of a sense that it was us against, for, with everything. Then 2 years ago he met her, someone whom I identified immediatly as a danger, & the more I fought against his "friend" the more he fought me. They had a lot of similiar interest, hell she could have even been his sister they look so much alike. He calls her his kindred spirit. I wonder now what am I? Well things got worse the disrespect & fighting was unbearable until the night he said he was leaving but couldn't do it, then we did a re-evaluation, vowed to start respecting each other again, & move on. Except here's the kicker - he refuses to let her go. They never slept together but what they did was worse in my book, they have an emotional attachment that my husband puts above ours. He's told me several times that he unwilling to ever give her up as a friend and that he does love her. I tried to understand since who am I to say whom loves whom. Love happens on all kinds of different levels. I tried to befriend her. My H couldn't really stand not having any "personal time" with her so that ended and he went back to going out with her alone. I was dealing pretty well, then an ex-girlfriend came into the picture, one whom I had heard a lot about. She sounded like a great girl a lot like myself. Good hearted strong morals. She lives 6 hours away, and one weekend my h went to see her, came back & told me all about her, and her little girl, and the hardships she's endured. He went once again to see her in December right before my son was born and came back. I always assumed that if I could trust him with anybody it would be her, and at that point I was trying my hardest to trust him. But little things bothered me, he had showered before he came home - which might not be funny but he had showered the day before and my h isn't into showers every day, also she sent him a letter in the mail, he had to leave the room when talking with her on the phone. So I asked him and he didn't deny but said that he didn't do anything wrong with her that it had nothing to do with us and they were just talking about there past. Now they were 15 when they were together, never had sex, and my h was probably the 2nd man she's slept with. Well I finally found out by snooping into his e-mail (i know - bad). I tried to forget but couldn't, all of this has happened within the last two years, our son was planned but we'd been trying for 5 years, never thought it would happen, then boom right in the middle of everything I'm pregnant. I can't forget my h's infidelities though, I hurt too much, plus he also refuses to give the 2nd "friend" up stating what happened was a mistake and will never happen again, and that he is willing to do whatever it takes to make things good between us again - as long as it doesn't involve him giving up his "girlfriends". He plans on going to see the 2nd next weekend I asked if I could go since it would put my mind at ease and put me in the picture as his wife. He said no that it would interupt his personal time. He states he's an individual who has the right to have personal friends, I don't deny that, I just don't feel like I should be exclusively excluded from them. Isn't marriage supposed to be a team effort? Not according to my h it's about 2 individuals living together. I've always been a giver, and so today I stopped and told him I no longer want to be apart of his life, since he doesn't have the same respect for me. He said I was making a mistake, that we could happily "co-exist" together and have a good life. He said that I'm the one who he can see being with when he's 50 & I asked him how many "friends" will he have gone thru? (Is it wrong of me to want more? Is it wrong to want a husband to love me as much as I love him, and who will put my happiness along with his?) When I told him I can't do that he threw his ring at me and told my 4-month old son that i was stupid. He'll always make it my fault saying I thru it away because I couldn't deal with his "friends" He did suggest counseling but how is a counselor supposed to help when he refuses to get rid of the problems? The secrets, the emotional games he plays with them. he loves to make women feel good about themselves, I just wonder why did he stop trying to make me feel good? (Sorry this is so long I needed to vent)<P>[This message has been edited by amberlina (edited April 20, 2001).]<p>[This message has been edited by amberlina (edited April 20, 2001).]

My H wouldn't give up his "friend"either. He asked me why can't a man have a woman as a good friend. Because she is not just a friend. Although you may not have sex, you are still emotionally attached to her and I will not share my H with any one else. <P>I have 3 small kids and we are now divorcing, although I wanted to reconcile.<P>Anyway, if YOU DON'T WANT TO LIVE SHARING your H, but you want your marriage, this site will give you useful, tools, information and insights to help guide you in the hell that you have now entered. Sorry to be blunt but that what this place is and nobody likes it.<P>My thoughts are with you.<P>Hopelessmom

Welcome <B>amberlina</B>...<P>There is a post of general welcome I wish to share with you... <P>It has a lot of quick links to many of the <B>most</B> important MB sites...<BR>Click here ==> <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000553.html" TARGET=_blank>General Welcome for All New Builders(Newbies)</A><P><B>About your post</B>...<P>Learn about <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A</A>...<BR>Check out my post <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000176.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan A - 101 (2nd ed.)</A>.<P>You want to go to <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi8113_ab.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B</A>...<BR>Check out <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000177.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B - 101 (2nd ed.)</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum30/HTML/000413.html" TARGET=_blank>Plan B - 201</A>.<P>Take a bit more time to assess your situation...<BR>...consider MB counseling...maybe a couple of <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7200_phone.html" TARGET=_blank>telephone counseling sessions</A> (~$120US a pop... but well worth it) with <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7010_about.html" TARGET=_blank>Steven W. Harley</A> or Jennifer Harley. Check out the <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html" TARGET=_blank>Counseling Center</A>... and for some specifics... <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7015_fee.html" TARGET=_blank>Fees for Counseling Services</A> and <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7020_sched.html" TARGET=_blank>Scheduling an Appointment</A> (888-639-1639)!<P>You're not alone.<P> <P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000254.html" TARGET=_blank>Jim</A> / <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum29/HTML/000037.html" TARGET=_blank>NSR</A>

Yep, my husband had those "friends" too. He would remind me when I would bring them up that I would never be enough for him that he needed other people as friends. I would say fine but don't exclude me. I don't object to the friendship but I do object to the way you keep it secret from me and yes that is an affair. Even when he said these were W he wasn't physically attracted to! It hurt a lot and now he wants out to pursue happiness. His lifestyle hurt me too much and he felt it more noble to leave than to try and work on our marriage. <P>I have lost all respect for him as a person at this point. I deserve better. He is totally self absorbed and motivated at this point. His unhappiness is within himself but he looks for new relationships as a temporary band-aid to alleve that unhappiness. He is a lost soul. <P>There are a lot of great people here to support you. I understand your situation so well as I lived the very same thing you did. Another thing you will realize reading here is that your H is just like all the rest of the WSs. his story is not new. His love for the OW is not unique. We hope you find some hope here for saving your marriage. Whatever happens we are here for you.<BR>

well, I don't have much credibility amber, seeing as how I am the ws with ow friend I am reluctant to part with. However, I would not ask, nor expect, my wife to accept this arrangement. It is quite true one cannot treat a wife rightly while emotionally attached to ow. My wife and I have serious marital problems that long predate the recent ow, (which came about out of emotional needs), and at present how we will proceed is unclear. But I understand that if it is to be toward reconcilliation, it must be without ow even as a bonafide friend. Your husbands behaviour is totally unacceptable, one can only be emotionally bonded to one person, and should be spouse. I suggested to my wife a divorce when I realized what was happening to me, but that is another issue. The point is your husband is deceptive or in denial about his bond with you. You have no choice IMO but to make him choose, and watch him very closely. And yes, that is what my wife is doing to me, and rightly so. In addition, I can barely deal with an estranged (for many years) wife and one friend, I cannot comprehend having 2 ow, and wanting a full time wife too. I have poured enormous emotional resources into the ow, and she me, but I did not think my wife was interested in me, that is not the case for you. Your husbands emotional resources should be invested in you, assuming you are holding up your end of the marriage, otherwise the marriage will die. Your patience is admirable, but misplaced, you are being used, not cherished as you should be, do not settle for less than his full attention.<p>[This message has been edited by confusedin MI (edited April 20, 2001).]

I for one cannot imagine <I>wanting</I> to exclude my wife from my relationships with other friends. I never really felt that my friends knew me unless they knew my wife also.<P>Obviously, therefore, I think there is something pretty wrong with your husband's attitude, amberlina. However, you're not in a good position to tell him that he is in the wrong, since he can dismiss your feelings as insecurities. (He <I>shouldn't</I> do this, as it's terribly disrespectful, but that's another thing you're not in a good position to tell him, for the same reason.)<P>That's why counseling is a good idea. Who knows? Maybe what your husband "can't" hear from you he can hear from someone else. He's offered counseling, probably thinking that the counselor will side with him, but he's likely to hear things he doesn't expect (if you find a <I>good</I> marriage-oriented counselor). Since you don't <I>know</I> how he will react in that circumstance, isn't it worth a try?<BR>

Amberlina,<P>Only you can decide what you want in your life. I can say for myself, personally, that co-habitation thing would NOT work. Call me greedy, but I want it all! This is a big IF, but IF I ever get married again, I won't settle like I did the first time.<P>My husband would have to be totally devoted to me and me alone. No "friends". Its not healthy and it leads to problems. <P>You should never feel guilty for what you want, even if this is a very hard decision for you. You deserve better, and you deserve to have what makes you happy within your marriage.<P>I don't know that divorce is always the best option, I myself am divorced, but always felt to an extent, it was quite fixable, but possibly you can read up on the principles of needs here and also, it would be great if he'd consider counseling.<P>My ex refused counseling, but he does go to the children's counselor with me for the sake of us learning how to "co-parent", now that we are divorced.<P>Good luck, you received a great reply from Jim to get you started. Dana<BR>