I saw you... and I was sooo happy!<P>Please email me at nbeginning@yahoo.com<P>I really want to talk to you, okay?<P>Love, Sheryl

Comin' at ya .... get your underwear outta that wad!!!<P>LOL LOL LOL

Underware officially outta the wad... but it took a good five minutes because it's soooooo hard to reach back there!

Maya,<BR>It's good to see you. I just started on this side of the board even though I really belong here.... denial I guess. Hope you are well....<BR>mike

Hi Maya,<P>Hope all is well with you. What’s been going on?<P>------------------<BR>Prayers & God Bless!<BR>Chris<BR>For relationship info check out <A HREF="http://www.pcisys.net/~chriscal1/resources.html" TARGET=_blank>Marriage & Relationship Resources</A>

Geez boys, had I realized that you'd be here I wouldn't have said how long it took to get my undies out of the wad...<P>Next time I'll have to remember this is a public forum!

Hi guys! Can't believe anyone remembers me .... thanks!<P>I still lurk every once in a while, but it's all so sad that I'm not around as much as I used to be.<P>I wish I had great news to report on my end, but I don't. I'm really just existing in the marriage, bound by God's word on the subject of divorce and a twisted sense the I'm going straight to hell if I leave.<P>However, I don't know how this situation is good for my kids, or my H. <P>The changes the H made after the affair to "help" me wanna stay are no longer there. As much as I hate to admit it, the OM was right ... he said H would change for a couple of years and then go right back where he was.<P>And so a day doesn't really go by that I don't think of leaving. The marriage hasn't healed, I just don't have the "want to" to work on it ... I realized the other day that I don't trust H enough to allow myself to open up to him. Past hurts (reasons for turning to another man) are still there that I can't work around, I've built a wall that no one can climb over and I'm not allowing anyone in.<P>Oh well .... sorry to be a downer .... thanks for asking and caring though ....

Maya:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>The changes the H made after the affair to "help" me wanna stay are no longer there. As much as I hate to admit it, the OM was right ... he said H would change for a couple of years and then go right back where he was.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Not to pick on you, but it seemed as though the changes your husband were making were pretty much all his effort, and you were doing nothing at all to encourage him. Did you work with him together and making your marriage change? Or did you sit back and wait for him to fail?<P>It's of interest to me---my wife promised that the "last" thing that would probably come around in her eyes was sex. But she's completely missed every self-imposed deadline that she set for herself in that regards (and it's now been more than four years).<P>One of her major complaints was that I would "pressure" her, and as soon as I stopped, it would get better. Well, I certainly can see where if someone makes some positive behavioral changes, expecting it to be reciprocated over a reasonable timeframe---if it's not, there might be a wee bit o' resentment (and reversion to past behaviors).<P>Not that I'd be guilty of that (well, not much... ).<P>So, my bottom line advice to you would be:<P>1. Did you help your husband work on changes by being completely open and honest (I always got the impression that you were lying to him by omission)?<P>2. Did you work with your husband together on a plan to make your marriage better?<P>I do feel the same way that you do about marriage (it's forever, divorce isn't an option). Not because I'm particularly afraid of hell (I'm sure that I can get there via other sins...)---but because it's the right thing to do. But existing in a marriage isn't solely enough---you need to actively (and creatively) work on making the marriage a better place. Are you doing that??<P>God bless.

K, no I'm not doing a thing ..... it's been 3 years and I've done various things, hoping all the feelings would come back. I've sat back, at the advice of my Christian "friends" and allowed God to work ... and nothing. I begged and pleaded with God to change my heart ... nothing. Only God can change a heart ... and yes it was a willing heart at the time. At the opposite end of the spectrum, I've actively tried to force feelings by being affectionate, being positive, etc., hoping the feelings would return eventually .. nothing ...<P>Yes, when the affair ended and I stayed, I told him the things that had caused me to drift and shut down to him. He changed them right away, but I was still de-toxing from the affair ... when the smoke cleared from THAT I found that ultimately I still was unable to trust him and open up to him.<P>I'm not here for any advice .... I'm the problem and I know that. I choose not to work on the marriage. I choose to be miserable in doing the "right thing" by staying .... and how stupid is that, K? I'm better off leaving and starting over again. And that's still a possibility ...

Maya! It is very good to "hear" from you.<P>I am sorry things are even worse than before. I am feeling prety much the same as you about my marriage. K has some good points. I just feel like no matter how hard I try, my husband isn't interested in anything other than status quo. <P>Anyway, so good to see you on the board, I have often wondered how you were....<P>Good to see NB (as always), Chris and mkn, too!

I'll put away the advice then. It seems you're still stuck in the cycle---and I wish the two of you would work together. I bet you'd be able to break it.<P>How's your depression? Are you still treating it?

Raskal and Maya,<P>Do you two, like me, sometimes sit in wonder of K? This is not some mamsy-pamsy lovein blechfest for K, it's just that, God, I wish my ex would have felt like he does.<P>All I can tell you two is that there is a certain amount of regret, no matter what, when the marriage ends. I certainly didn't continue on a PlanA type course with my ex, but damn if I don't do it with the new man in my life. But, you see, he hasn't cheated on me, broken my heart and soul into a million pieces, and stomped on it.<P>I know... I know... some would say (including K) that I should have tried longer and with more fervor, with David. <P>...sigh...<P>Ya know... I just couldn't. I guess that's what it is. I simply COULD NOT go ONE MORE STEP with him.<P>I wish you both peace... God knows we need it. Living with an albatros around your neck is quite daunting, isn't it?<P>By the way, "blechfest" = "platitudes" to me... K hates it, I'm sure, so I'm making a point of not overdoing...<p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited April 24, 2001).]

Depression? What depression? LOL<P>No, I'm off the drugs and the counseling .... I got discouraged. I went for 3 months I guess .... and didn't feel like anything was accomplished. I still have alot of anger at our church and my church "friends". Thankfully I don't think of the OM often, except in the form of "What was I thinking?"<P>Unfortunately I don't wish him well .... but he's doing really well anyway .... left his kids (I hate him for that), moved to another state, found another OW b/4 divorce was final ... she happens to be never married and very well off (gee, imagine that). His entire paycheck goes back to his kids ... and he's free of all of it. He's a kept man now ... <P>Yeah I'm bitter .... but I'd never in a million years leave my kids like that. As much as I'd hate to have him living in the same city again, I wish he'd be here for them. What a RAT. I'm a lousy judge of character.

Yes, K is something else, isn't he? <P>Yes, I wish my husband had half the want to improve our marriage as K does for his (and his help on this board for other people's marriages). <P>I should just get over it and know that my husband won't probably ever take the initiative and go ahead and try to be the best wife, consistantly (I am good for awhile, until my husband's LB's get the best of me and then I withdraw). Divorce isn't the answer, I know, but this hurt/ loneliness isn't the answer, either. <P>Kareena is a good example of doing that, but she is still feeling withdrawn. Life is hard, eh?<P>I am sorry, NB, that you are still struggling/hurting with your divorce. I am sure it will always bring some pain, but I sure hope it eases. <P>Thank you for the words of encouragement, Sheryl. I really appreciate them. I identify with you quite a bit as my husband had several affairs, then was faithful for a long time and then I had what could be called an exit EA, as we never fully recovered from his affairs (plus never did POJA and all the other things couples should do).<P>As Medic says "I wish us all the best..."<P>

Thanks Raskal, and yes, we DO have a common bond!<P>You know, it doesn't hurt so much until I "relive" it at moments like this...<P>I don't like to, and won't, come on here and tell everyone how much I love the new man, our plans, etc. because I see no value in it (the telling, to those who are struggling). But I am, for the most part, quite happy. I am definately "at peace" with the relationship with him, insofar as the love... but there are extraneous circumstances (like not seeing my kids) that make me ache... and therefore wonder... how did I get to this point?.... and then... oh yeah, David. (...and me too, of course...)<P>I have often come here to get support... but I think that's asking a LOT when we're talking about a group of people struggling to save their marriages. My hope in being here now is to help those I can, and to continue learning so that I don't make the same mistakes with this relationship that got me here in the first place. <p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited April 24, 2001).]

Hi Maya,<P>I hope Sheryl doesn't mind me sticking my nose? fingers? whatever in. Just wanted to say Hi! to you and tell you I am sorry you are still in the same position. I do hope something changes for the better.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Hey Maya,<P>I was starting to write you "advice", but I caught myself. I <B>do</B> hope that you start feeling better about yourself and your situation. You have a lot of friends here that care about your well-being.<P>Sheryl:<P>I think suse said it best when she said that the last thing my wife needed was "Saint K" running around with a big ol' head. So enough with the blech-fest already...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by K:<BR><B><BR>Sheryl:<P>I think suse said it best when she said that the last thing my wife needed was "Saint K" running around with a big ol' head. So enough with the blech-fest already... </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You and I both know that the last thing you need is me or anyone else feeding into the blech-fest... <P>...it's just that, in hindsight (where most of my really good thinking resides) I really wish that things could have worked out in a way that kept my kids close, kept my heart in one piece, kept my sanity, kept my integrity and honor, and kept my friends and family from feeling like they had to choose between me and him or me and the other him, or me in CA vs. me in Canada.<P>...and all of that *could have* been avoided, but it cannot be changed now... not that anyone (including David, as much as he *says* he's **standing** for the marriage he still has OW) wants that... but had he thought like you do... and worked at it... ya know? And for that, I am still a bit angry and bitter.<P>...and now, of course, there is my new life to consider...<P>...and although I am that all-illusive **happy** ...at what cost did it come? That's always been my question and my quest.<P><BR><p>[This message has been edited by new_beginning (edited April 24, 2001).]

Sheryl:<P>That's a concern that I have for you---you've done what is making you <I>happy</I>, but you didn't necessarily do <B>the right thing</B> (according to MY definition of right). You and Student were going back and forth on a thread that I didn't want to get caught up in, but her basic premise was (and my basic premise is) that doing the right thing is fundementally always the best thing to do. It may delay happiness, but you're not usually spending time second-guessing yourself.<P>I wish that you had worked out your situation in a way that was "win-win" for everyone. And a big fear I have is that your happiness will be temporary, and that you may end up with more problems because of your past actions. I certainly don't wish that for you---but it wouldn't surprise me to see it happen. Nor do I have any sage advice on how to assuage your (or my) fears about your situation (and hey---if you tell me "enough with the advice"---I'll try to curb myself).<P>Oh well---just do <B>the right thing</B> from now on, OK? <p>[This message has been edited by K (edited April 24, 2001).]

Ya know what K?<P>Of all the things you've ever said to me (and God knows there has been a ton of stuff)... this post has touched my heart the most.<P>I <B>will</B> try to do the right thing (according to everyone/anyone's definition - including yours and MINE) from now on.<P>...and maybe with this, I should shed my past (except OF COURSE, my children) and concentrate on making my present as honorable a place as it can be. <P>You never need to curb your advice K. The only time you ever truly hurt me was with that one remark (I need not repeat it, I think you know the one) and I do believe we've gone past that. <P>I utterly respect you. I always have. I don't always agree with you, as you do not with me, but the respect IS THERE.<P>Have a lovely day K.